Side Sharpening and The Sharp Skate Honing Guide
by Derek Cohen
The Sharp Skate is a recent addition to the range of blade honing guides on the market. Designed by Harrelson Stanley, it is different in concept to anything else I have seen to date. There is no doubt that in discussing its pros and cons it is capable of polarizing woodworkers. It will raise a number of questions for those who are curious about how blades are best sharpened. It is definitely better suited to a certain type of hand tool user than another and, consequently, woodworkers will need to ask of themselves “who am I and what do I want from the Sharp Skate?” Lastly, regular users of other types of honing guides are likely to experience an initial frustration with the Sharp Skate. This is not a criticism but a part of the journey.
If this all sounds rather intriguing, then read on …
The Sharp Skate
The Sharp Skate is built from anodized aluminium. It has a large screw head that adjusts the blade hold down. The underside has 9 small wheels along which the Sharp Skate runs. Unlike traditional honing guides that move fore-and-aft, the Sharp Skate moves side-to-side.
Another original solution is the way a blade is secured, either in square or skew mode. A frequent complaint of many guides is how a blade may slip out of a setting. Here, the underside of the hold down is both angled and ridged. The angle allows pressure to be placed across an uneven blade back, while the ridges create a multitude of fences against which the blade is aligned.
At each side of the guide is a thin steel rod. When removed the hold down is able to pivot, and specific angles may be selected to sharpen skew bevels faces. There are preset settings for 20 through 45 degrees.
Origins of the Sharp Skate Design
Before demonstrating how the Sharp Skate is set up and used, it is important to understand where the concept originated. Let me introduce you to Side Sharpening …
Side Sharpening
I am sure that I am not alone in having used side sharpening as a technique for many years. No doubt like others before me, I “discovered” this technique when faced with honing small and narrow blades, such as those for a side rabbet plane, which were too small to fit a guide or too small to hold comfortably and securely to freehand back-and-forth.
The small blades of a Stanley #79 Side Rabbet Plane
I discovered that moving it sideways rather than front-and-back enabled greater registration area and kept the blade edge from rounding over. Hey Presto – Side Sharpening!
The first time I have seen this method documented was when I came across a DVD by Harrelson Stanley.
I ordered the DVD, viewed it several times, and practiced side sharpening ala Harrelson Stanley before attempting to use the Sharp Skate. The essence of the method may be summarized as follows:
· The right hand (for a right-handed individual) is used to support the blade. Do so by holding it by the fingertips. “Take the power out of your right hand”.
· The left hand is used to sharpen. Used it like a saw… “as if the left hand is going to saw the stone into ribbons…trying to keep the hand rigid from tips of the fingers to the elbow”.
I noticed that my natural inclination is to tuck the remaining fingers of my right hand under the blade. This served to take more of the weight off the left hand, which is doing all the work – pressing down the bevel face and sliding it back-and-forth.
The advantage of this freehand method is the greater degree of face support. Compare this to the traditional front-back method where the bevel face will want to roll.
· Rock the blade until it is flat on the surface.
· Use short strokes to the end of the stone to maintain registration (the temptation is to immediately take long strokes, ala a traditional guide.
The other argument for preferring the side sharpening method involves the removal of the burr that is raised when honing the bevel face. Harrelson views the burr as too fragile to remove with a front-to-back motion as this is likely to cause it to break off with a jagged edge. By polishing it off sideways for the length of the stone, the burr is encouraged to shear off cleanly. It is recommended that this take place between each stone and not only at the end.
What effect does Side Sharpening have on the bevel edge?
The question is whether striations parallel to an edge will weaken the edge compared to those that run front-to-back? Basically, how do the two methods compare?
I raised this issue with Brent Beach who, armed with his microscope, set out to obtain the necessary evidence. It is relevant to note that Brent arrived at the following conclusion using a sandpaper system and with his own honing guide, a design different from the Skate Sharp:
· Using a Stanley plane blade, the difference in edge durability with the two methods was very similar, with insignificant differences present.
From Brent’s research I am happy to conclude that both methods produced equivalent results in regard to durability of edge.
Impressions of Harrelson’s method
The DVD is well worth viewing. As expected the information Harrelson presents is more than just holding a blade and moving it sideways across a waterstone. Harrelson also provides insightful advice about using a waterstone and dealing with the burr created by the sharpening process.
Harrelson recommends working the blade along the inside face of the ‘stone, as opposed to down the center. This will wear a minute camber rather than a hollow. The reasoning here is that the blade is more easily kept flat this way.
Harrelson also recommends removing the burr on the final polishing stone after each successive stone (rather than only doing so at the end). I found that this does provide a better ability to keep track of where the edge is being honed.
He also extols the importance of maintaining flat stones, which he does after each blade. This, and the large amount of water he used, was a surprise since I was doing less of each with the same Shaptons. In following his advice I found that previous “sticktion” (stickiness) was now almost completely absent.
The bottom line about freehand side sharpening, compared to freehand front-and-back sharpening, is that it really makes the task so much easier – greater control, and a flatter bevel face.
What I will point out is that “side sharpening” is not fully side sharpening but really also diagonal sharpening. I suspect that this is one of the reasons for my flat bevel; faces – moving sideways only is likely to lead to some rounding, but less that the rounding with front-and-back since the latter has less registration. Moving the bevel face diagonally enables a flattening effect to take place. Now the question is, can one do the same with the Sharp Skate?
Assessing the Sharp Skate
The Sharp Skate was used to hone a variety of blades. These ranged in width from 1/16” to 2 ¼”, in shape from parallel plane irons to tapered chisel blades, and straight as well as skews.
Here are a few of the many:
The media used was a set of Shapton waterstones comprising 1000/5000/8000/12000 grit. These were maintained with a 10” DMT Extra Coarse diamond stone.
Setting up the Skate Sharp
Slide the blade in and tighten the blade until just snug. “Snug” means that the blade is still capable of being moved fore-and-aft, but not sideways.
Make sure that the blade is centered and against one of the guide walls.
Raise the blade until it makes contact with the flat surface, and slide it down until the wheels are touching.
Once this is done, you can tighten it all up. Finger pressure is enough. The YouTube video shows Harrelson using a Hex key, but this is unnecessary.
The hold down has sufficient adjustment to secure tapered blades as well. Here it is holding securely a ¼” Oval Bolstered Mortice Chisel, which is a stern test for any system.
A word of warning. The Side Skate is no less vulnerable than other honing guides to blades being skewed to one side. With some guides too much pressure (down force) to one side of the blade will skew it in that direction. In the case of the Side Skate, unless the blade is centered, the hold down angle will do the same thing. This is illustrated in the picture below:
Once centered, the Sharp Skate is capable of securely holding very narrow blades, down to a 1/16” chisel I tried. Here it is holding a ¼” dovetail chisel …
Setting up a narrow chisel blade is very fiddly. While these may be held quite securely, getting them square is a delicate job, that ends up being redone a few times, and requires several lagers to maintain one’s emotional equilibrium!
Wider plane blades are reasonably easy to set up. I suspect that the ease of securing a blade in the Sharp Skate is proportional to one’s experience in freehand honing. It is necessary to have a feel for placing the blade flat on the surface. This requires rocking it slightly back-and-forth until it is just right. This process is a familiar one for anyone used to freehand sharpening a blade, whether front-to-back or side-to-side. These users will show greater tolerance.
Users of other makes of honing guides, such as the Veritas Honing Guide Mk II or the Eclipse, will no doubt experience this process as extremely frustrating as they are used to installing the blade and clamping it down with minimal fuss. What would make the effort worthwhile?
In my opinion, the Skate Sharp is a honing guide for the would-be freehander. It might also be considered to be “Training Wheels”. As I shall demonstrate, it does a good job of honing, but it relies a great deal on the attitude of the freehander, this being an acceptance that precision is less important that a sense of being hands-on.
There is more, and it is important to clarify these points.
Perhaps this section could have been titles, “What the Sharp Skate Is Not”. Those who seek to hone specific bevel angles, such as possible on the Veritas guides, will be disappointed with the Sharp Skate. It does not have a built in protractor. As noted above, one sets the blade by placing it flat on the surface. For most blades, a few degrees here-or-there are irrelevant. What is at first glance a “weakness” is, in fact, a possible strength for sharpeners with a freehand mentality. For those who believe that they cannot live without a bevel of a specific angle, then the Sharp Skate may be a disappointment.
Of course, it is possible to adapt any guide to hone specific angles. It took but a short while to do so on the Sharp Skate as well. All that is required is to determine the blade extension needed for different angles. Taking the distance from the front edge of the hold down, the following projections were noted:
Blade Angle……………………mm projection
20………………………………..19.5
25………………………………..17.5
30………………………………..16.5
35…………………………………9.5
Setting the blade projection
I also use bevel up planes, such as the Veritas BU Smoother (see earlier). While bevel angles are less important with bevel down planes, they are critical with the bevel up type since the included angle is the sum of the bed and the bevel angles. For the most part, my BU smoothers require a bevel angle of 50 degrees (for an included angle of 62 degrees). This was possible to achieve on the Sharp Skate, but really it was impractical. The image below will demonstrate that the amount of blade projection was minimal. This made honing difficult and it was not possible to remove the burr between stones.
Gripping the Sharp Skate
The way one will hold the Sharp Skate is an extension of the way one holds a blade for side sharpening.
As before, the right hand supports the blade – and guide – while the left hand guides the bevel across the stone.
Above is the right hand placement.
Below is the left hand steering the blade across the stone.
Using the Skate Sharp
In my communication with Harrelson, he had this to say:
“I am also finding that it helps to take the pressure off the wheels when sharpening. When I first started sharpening with the SS I was putting maybe equal pressure on the wheels and blade. Now I’m at about 80% pressure on the blade and 20% on the wheels. I’m developing a lighter touch and learning to lift into the outside corners of the blade to make a camber. The more I use it the more I learn. It really is a lot like free hand sharpening and that was my goal in the design.”
My experience paralleled this. When I first began using the guide I approached it as if it were just another guide. The fiddliness of setting it up was irritating, and I found it uncomfortable to hold. It finally dawned on me that I was holding and using it incorrectly. Using the right hand to hold and move the guide forced me to tighten my grip on the blade, and the edges of the steel cut into my fingers. Letting go and transferring the power to the left hand loosened up the process and made it feel more natural.
The Sharp Skate moves smoothly across the waterstone. This is probably aided by the hardness of the Shapton. I did not try it on a softer stone, such as my Kings. It is very directional – and herein lies an issue. It is not possible to move the guide diagonally.
It is best not to use long strokes at first. Avoid the temptation to shoot the blade across the stone. “Short pushes”, as Harrelson refers to them, that is, short strokes will maximize control and minimize the possibility of rocking the blade.
As you can see in the picture below, the whole stone can be used….
View Image
Using the whole stone.
Below is a honed straight bevel.
…. And here is the result paring Paulownia end grain. A clean slice on this soft timber is only possible with the sharpest of blades.
Cambering a bevel
So much for straight bevels. What about cambered bevels?
Cambering a bevel is easy enough. It is the identical procedure as used when side sharpening.
Begin by creating a straight bevel, then camber one corner by placing finger pressure on this area, then repeat at the other end.
Here is a picture of the HNT Gordon producing a nice cambered full width shaving:
A few more plane shavings ….
The perception of value-for-money
It must be said, the Sharp Skate is expensive. At $150 USD, it is considerably more expensive that the basic Veritas Honing Guide Mk II at $55. Even when one adds in extras, such as the skew jig and the camber roller, the Veritas is only $100 USD.
Here is the Veritas complete with accessories (skew jig, camber roller, and protractor):
The problem is that the Sharp Skate is made in small qualities and this increases the cost of manufacture.
Summing up ….
The Sharp Skate presents with a unique set of features. This is not the honing guide for those that demand absolute precision in honing bevel angles. While it certainly will hone precisely square or cambered bevels, the Sharp Skate is closer to the experience of freehand freedom than locked in accuracy. In practice, with the method outlined, it is able to lock in specific bevel angles as well, but it was not designed to do this.
By-and-large, Harrelson’s concept works. The guide is rather more directional than I would prefer, but it does make the process of side sharpening easy. The guide, itself, is acceptably easy to set up as long as you maintain the mind set of a freehand sharpener. Users of more traditional front-and-back guides will experience the Sharp Skate as frustrating, and likely misunderstand the rationale behind its design.
If a prospective buyer were to go on price alone, the Sharp Skate may well struggle to sell as the perception of value-for-money is relatively low. Clearly this is not why a purchase will be made. It will be made by one who is seeking a guide to enable the method of side sharpening.
Derek Cohen
Perth, Australia
October 2007
Replies
So..... Who sponsored this lengthy this lengthy message?
It sure seems like an advertisement for another expensive and time consuming device, and this breaks the "House Rules."
Gary W
gwwoodworking.com
It's no more "advertising" than when one of us peons (that's me, compared to Derek, LOL!) "reviews" a new power tool with info we want to share. Or when Sarge goes out and compares band saws and reports on his experience with new Steel City tools. Derek and a couple others periodically review tools, new and old, and post their thoughts here. I, for one, see no conflict with any spamming restrictions in the Knots Users Agreement.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 10/25/2007 3:05 pm by forestgirl
I'm sorry if I offended you or anyone else here. The magazine-length of Derek's "article," and the fact that it covers only a single sharpening jig, still leads me to think that he's "pushing" this understandably expensive, but, in my opinion, unnecessary tool.
I don't think sharpening requires us to use any tools to provide a razor sharp, accurately micro-beveled edge that'll shave the hair off my arm, and cut just as well as one done with the Skate. Like everything else we do, sharpening is an aquired skill that needs only our hands, a couple of stones, and a strop. With the skill, I think touching up a blade by hand, and unaided with yet another tool, could be done in half the time it'd take to first clamp the blade into a jig, hone it, and then remove the blade and go to the strop. Gary W
gwwoodworking.com
Tis just Derek's verbose style.
Don't like what he reviews on his own time? Skip over the thread...or turn your head...or what ever, like post happy messages in an acusatory tone. Your choice.
While I could care less about honing jiggies, I do read most of what Derek posts, just like I often read articles in magazines that may not hold immediate interest to me.
The thought that he is pushing Harrelson's jig isn't how I read it. In fact it seems to me he is recommending a less expensive option as regards jigs. Whether you or I use them, it is obvious others do. So?
And there times I do use a jig for helping correct convex shaped blades when hand honing is running amok and they need to fit a given profile (else I grind them to a scribe, followed by a honing jig). So?
Take care, Mike
So... I'll take your advice and back off.
Happy reading and posting.Gary W
gwwoodworking.com
Well, I apologize if I communicated that you should back-off. Not my intent.
Discussion is good. If I had the energy, I would probably ask Derek some specific questions. There's one or two things I think he could clarify. If I was up for another round of guided vs. non-guided sharpening (or what ever other components of sharpening), it could prove beneficial to others in the long run. The line I would personally draw would be calling someone a shill.
You do nice work Gary and obviously have dedication and skill to keep on keeping on. It would be a pity to not have a discussion--including the jiggy vs. non-jiggy one.
Take care, Mike
GaryW,
I have no idea why Derek wrote the piece but I'm glad he did. A few months ago on another sharpening discussion (that doesn't narrow it down much)I said I liked side sharpening and I could see it appeared to be the chosen method of LN Planes. Derek asked if I used a jig. I told him I use the Veritas MKII, he asked if moving sideways on the shaptons impacted the veritas roller. I told him I had set up the shapton stones so it was flat with the granite slab and the roller stayed on the granite. Also, I found side sharpening facilitated moving to hand only holding for me which I use for most of my chisels now.
So I found his research quite useful.
It's not a matter of "offending" or "backing off." Certainly, if you think the jig is expensive and unnecessary overkill, speak up -- an opinion as relevant as anyone else's. It was accusing Derek of "shilling" that got my dander up. Inidcates that you're probably not around enough on a regular basis to recognize the valuable contributions he has made to this forum, and to know that he makes these kinds of presentations periodically, generally with great appreciation from the audience (whether we actually agree with him or not).forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
You're correct, I'm not around much, but I've contributed and lurked here for many years, although I hadn't before read any of Derek's contributions. In fact, this was the first time I saw his name here, and his post was - to me - unusually lengthy, too lengthy to read completely, and therefore unusual.
I repeat, I'm sorry I offended you or anyone else by calling attention to what appeared to me to be shilling. I admire your defense of Derek.Gary W
gwwoodworking.com
I don't think sharpening requires us to use any tools to provide a razor sharp, accurately micro-beveled edge that'll shave the hair off my arm, and cut just as well as one done with the Skate. Like everything else we do, sharpening is an aquired skill that needs only our hands, a couple of stones, and a strop. With the skill, I think touching up a blade by hand, and unaided with yet another tool, could be done in half the time it'd take to first clamp the blade into a jig, hone it, and then remove the blade and go to the strop.
Hi Gary
The thread started off on the wrong foot, and I'd like to repair this situation. One of the reasons I post these articles is to bring information to others - often it is me putting my thoughts on paper (but better organised!) over issues that occur to me when I see a new tool or want to master a skill. Let's begin again.
What you say about sharpening is actually the way I also feel. I have posted many articles about jigs and angles and godknows, but my heart is really in the KIS system (Keep It Simple). With all my bevel down planes and most of my chisels, I hollow grind and then freehand on waterstones. I maintain the edge with strops. Bevel up planes are a different kettle of fish and usually require the use of a honing guide to create specific bevel angles. I don't like it (I am lazy), but they are worth it.
I find it so interesting that there is such a polarity among hand- and jig users. It is more often than not a case of one-or-the-other, and rarely both accepted and used. I have had heated discussions with some who are jig users and I find myself defending the freehand option. And then I end up defending the use of guides and jigs among the ardent freehand advocate. Life is just not black and white for me.
Would I buy a Sharp Skate? No, I would not - because I can do it by hand, and because I have other, cheaper (and in specific contexts, probably better) alternatives. Does this mean that others should avoid it? No again - because it is an interesting and useful guide that will suit the personality of someone. One thing that is refreshing about this guide is that it encourages the user to not be so pedantic about bevel angles - just hone the one that is already there.
Gary, please do respond. I welcome your insights.
Mike, do ask your questions when/if you get a chance. There is quite a bit I could have posted but did not as the article was getting too long.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Derek,
Without thoroughly reading your article, and merely scanning the text and fine photos, I recklessly assumed it was advertising. I should know better than to assume! I made an #### of myself, but thankfully not of you.
As much as I'd like to jump into the bi-polar fray about these sorts of tools, I probably won't, because I don't have the time right now to give to the subject. To do so would require an equally thorough discourse on unaided, hand sharpening, and maybe it's time Fine WoodWorking again put the method into print. Maybe you're the guy to write the article, but if you do, I encourage you to show the readers how to also sharpen a low angle, bevel up, block plane. My Lie-Nielson, like cheaper Stanley's in the past, is perhaps the most used tool in my kit, and I never think of needing a jig to keep it razor sharp. Gary W
gwwoodworking.com
"...but my heart is really in the KIS system (Keep It Simple). " You're so nice to yourself! I use the KISS system -- "Keep It Simple, Stupid!" Works great for dieting -- only eat when I'm hungry, actually works.
Back to woodworking. The polarity that is present when discussing jigs vs. freehand/low tech....partly due to how difficult it is for those who easily go freehand to understand that some folks just don't have the eye, or the feel, or the steady hand (or whatever) to do a good job freehand. I'm one of those cluxes. To some extent, I'm sure it can be taught, but some of us are beyond hope in that respect and need the mechanical reliability of a jig.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
"The polarity that is present when discussing jigs vs. freehand/low tech....partly due to how difficult it is for those who easily go freehand to understand that some folks just don't have the eye, or the feel, or the steady hand (or whatever) to do a good job freehand."
This is a very important point. Something that seems easy for you isn't necessarily easy for someone else, and vice versa. And while practice can make something that used to be hard easy, it doesn't always work out that way.
A couple of examples:
1) I have a friend who can take a drawing--any drawing--and while holding the drawing in one hand and a pen or pencil in the other, reproduce that drawing flawlessly. I mean exactly, down to the last nuanced stroke. This is not a learned skill.
2) My wife is a biologist who works on a kind of nematode, a little worm that is about 1 millimetre long. The students who come through her lab have to learn how to transfer these from one place to another, while looking through a microscope, using what amounts to a little piece of wire with a flattened end, sticking out of a 6" long, 1/4" dowel. Some people get the hang of it right away, some take a while but eventually get it, and some work at it for weeks and weeks and never manage to be able to transfer the worms without losing most of them.
Me, I'm one of those people who can successfully transfer worms on the first try, but who can't draw a realistic face to save his life.
-Steve
If you've watched his video, Mike Dunbar teaches the side to side movement on sandpaper without the benefit of a jig, and it works great. If you follow his instructions precisely, you can sharpen chisels, plane blades, gouges without a jig. This past April, while a student at Lonnie Bird's school, we were taught that sharpening was a 'ballpark' science, and to hone freehand on waterstones. If you grind a tool to 49 degrees rather than 50, does it really matter? Lonnie concluded by saying, "I learned to sharpen quickly and well when I realized I was getting paid to make furniture, not sharpen tools." What I've learned is this: There are lots of good ways and methods to sharpen tools. Pick the one that works best for you that allows you to get the best edge the quickest, and allows you to get back to work. As usual, great information, Derek. Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
So..... Who sponsored this lengthy this lengthy message?
It sure seems like an advertisement for another expensive and time consuming device, and this breaks the "House Rules."
Hi Gary
To answer your question, the costs are borne by myself. Because I was curious about the guide, I contacted Harrelson to obtain a loaner. He agreed, all shipping costs to and from Australia paid by myself. I also ordered the DVD because I recognised that it was relevant.
I write lots of reviews. They are done as a hobby. Inevitably, the exposure may act as advertising. This doesn't interest me. Good luck to whoever. (Of course, it could go the other way!)
Advertising occurs in every avenue, and we need to be tolerant. For example, you are a professional woodworker, and I know this because your advertised the fact by including a link to your website. So where do we draw the line?
Regards from Perth
Derek
p.s. Here is a link to other reviews and articles:
http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/dCohen/index.asp
Dude, this guy is 1- a very bright puppy. 2- has given us ( the struggeling sawdust makers ) a priceless amount of info in the past. 3- His ethics are -have been demonstrated to be- with out fault so far. 4- He has proven that he has significant talent .
So on what grounds do you profess that you can increase the information level of this issue. Paddy
Derek, it looks functional enough to me especially the means to clamp the blade.
Send it over here quickly, I am tempted to replace those wheels with steel balls-then it can be used either way....Seriously-unless I have missed the boat I think the balls would be better ?
(No I don't think the stones would be damaged: the thing is a guide, so one is supposed to press on the item being sharpened, not the guide).
Derek, it looks functional enough to me especially the means to clamp the blade.Send it over here quickly, I am tempted to replace those wheels with steel balls-then it can be used either way....Seriously-unless I have missed the boat I think the balls would be better ?
Aaah Philip! You read my mind! I think that the wheels here are the limiting factor for two reasons: firstly, they are bloody expensive. A mate of mine, who is an engineer, took one look and said of the wheels and, especially, the screws "Big Bucks". This is probably the reason why the guide is so expensive. Secondly, the wheels are (as I mentioned in the body) quite directional, and this prevents diagonal movement. So I also got to thinking about a roller ball. The problem with that is that grit will get inside and create wear. So I have another idea (not that I need this, but what the hell, my curiosity is up..)
I am thinking of getting out my old Veritas guide Mk I (not the Mk II) and removing the roller. In its place I will put a rounded sled. The sled can be made out of HCS, and then I will heat treat it so that it is harder than hard (i.e. heat it red hot and then just dunk it in oil). The steel will be brittle but this is unlikely to be put to the test. The hardness of the steel should resist wear on a waterstone (or will it?)
Watdoyouthink?
Regards from Perth
Derek
Derek,
Even the hardened steel will be rapidly worn, I believe, because of pressure (force over small area).
I would think steel balls would be cheaper to do than the wheels, and I don't believe the grit /wear would be any inhibiting factor- certainly no more so than on the rollers of Eclipse types and others. My Eclipse is close to 40years old now-wheel is a bit loose but still works well enough.
The trouble with that guide is the price, when compared with others out there which are more versatile, so I feel H would do well to find other ways to make it more versatile.Philip Marcou
Castors come to mind.
I think balls and sled will wear, and fear costs will be even higher.....
David
"The hardness of the steel should resist wear on a waterstone (or will it?)"
No, it won't. The hardest steels are softer than even "average" abrasives. A ceramic sled, on the other hand, could be made to be very wear-resistant. It could also be polished to give the guide a smooth "ride."
-Steve
Doesn't life get complicated?
I do side honing by clamping the blade in a vice or to the bench and nipping the bevel and a hand hone between forefinger and thumb. A few side to side passes and a little deft angled pass to suggest a secondary bevel (if I feel like it) gets the job done. No stones jigs or do-das.
I own too many gadgets which do not get used. Shave with Wilkinson sword Xtreme3 vitamin E and Somersets original shaving oil. Not tried that oil for honing but bet it would do a super job.
I have no interest in the products except as a satisfied consumer.
HI Derek,Rubber wheels would make sense.It's worth pointing out that a lot of tradesmen sharpen the same as this, (did you call it side-on?)Even though I was trained to hone in a figure 8, I tend to sharpen like this a lot - gives a quicker way to get an edge and avoids the rocking problem in a figure 8 as the hands and blades are moving in one direction only.Cheers,eddie
Interesting suggestion (why didn't I think of it?). The balls would turn the jig into a multi-directional contraption. I can't get over, however, how large and unwieldy the Harrelson think looks!
3 or 4 or 5 years ago, I beleive Shop Notes (or their sister mag) printed a easy to make side jig. I didn't make it, but maybe someone here did.
In short, though, I think we're all a bit guilty of over-thinking sharpening (afterall aren't we talking about it?). I've found through experimentation what works and what doesn't. Doing what works comes natural after a time.
On a whim a couple of weeks ago I bought a Work Sharp(one of the downsides of expendable income). Does a nice, but extremely restricted job. Do I use it? I did for the first couple of days (novelty and all). Earlier this morning, I had a 3/4" paring chisel to sharpen. Without thinking about how to do it, I free-handed it as I have done for the past several years. Don't really think it took that long. Come to think of it, I really didn't think much at all while sharpening it--I just sharpened it!
I can't get over, however, how large and unwieldy the Harrelson think looks!
Hi Tony
The Sharp Skate is actually quite compact. Here it is with the Veritas Mk II and the Eclipse.
View Image
I also think a ball - or perhaps a rounded ceramic sled, would be the way to go.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Edited 10/27/2007 10:02 am ET by derekcohen
Balls have been tried before--for free rotation they require a socket. Not good for the crap they pick up off the stones. Engineering to remove the effect of slurry? Perhaps.
I think it may be a bad idea to have something sliding on a stone that is harder than the stones themselves. Would ceramic fall into this category? I don't know for certain. If so, it would simply wear the stone.
I think the side-sharpening jig mentioned above was either in Shop Notes or Woodsmith. iirc, it was cheap to make and used scary sharp. That it wasn't afixed to the paper or paper's base means that it could be easily repositioned to utilize nearly the full surface of the sandpaper.
Take care, Mike
That's one I was referring to Mike! Looked interesting, but not interesting enough to make though. Like any singular purpose tool, I believe it would do an excellent job for that purpose, but us "experimenters" would never be satisfied with that!
The ball slides I've seen (and have used some larger ones) do have balls that are quite hard. The grit could conceivably be an issue. But, who is the target for jigs such as this and are we trying to solve a problem for the guy who is using the jig that doesn't recognize the issue as problem?
Again, what is the right way? Is there a right way with all the jigs and methods out there?
Maybe I'm just feeling philosphical this morning: I spent yesterday afternoon at the dealer sale preceeding the Brown Auction (have family responsibilities today that ruled out staying for the auction). I've been at sales many times before, some as larger, if not larger than this one. This time something hit home: There are an unbelievably large variety of tools out there all designed to do the same job! Each was the inventor's idea of what should be the best way for us non-tinkerers. Which is right? Whichever works best for you and the way you work!
To answer the question that nobody asked, I did buy 3 more Preston tools that I did not have, a couple of plumb bobs, a bench dog, and my wallet is mucho dollars lighter. I view Brown's (Clarence Blachard of Fine Tool Journal) as the sale that all others try to match. And Mike, I did not see any Fray braces there (probably were but not jumping out at me) although I did see probably more patent braces than I've ever seen in one place (again tools to solve problems that may not have existed).
OK, break is over, back down to the shop. Got a new high def. TV that I've been making a stand for.
To answer the question that nobody asked, I did buy 3 more Preston tools that I did not have, a couple of plumb bobs, a bench dog, and my wallet is mucho dollars lighter. I view Brown's (Clarence Blachard of Fine Tool Journal) as the sale that all others try to match.
Ah, some of my favorite tools--and, well, you didn't give me the chance to ask--but I would have. Please take this the right way. All you who can readily attend Brown's and MJD auctions? Well the word I am thinking begins with an 'S'.
And Mike, I did not see any Fray braces there (probably were but not jumping out at me) although I did see probably more patent braces than I've ever seen in one place (again tools to solve problems that may not have existed).
Hey--thanks for thinking about me! The ones I am looking for now are at both ends of the size-spectrum. 14" and 6"/7". I don't know if Fray/Spofford chuck came in 6 or 4"--but that would be really nice. The 14" size I do only use once in a while. My current 14" is a ratchet model, but I usually like the non-ratcheting braces.
There are a multitude of things designed to accomplish same/similar functions. It never ceases to amaze me to look at auction previews and see something new that I didn't know existed--usually by a maker I didn't know existed.
Take care, Mike
I bought a 6" Spofford chuck style purchased from the MoA. It actually measures closer to 6-1/2", so the mystery remains if there really were 6" Frays! I got at least a dozen (probably more) of this style ranging from the (about) 6" through 14" plus a whimble style. About a half dozen always have a center bit chucked up, plus a countersink and a flat screwdriver bit. Did I mention I have a thing for Frays?
At one of the MJD auctions this past summer, I did very well on a bunch of transitionals. Always have had a thing for them, and at one of the auctions I concentrated soley on them! Saw a "Economy" brand of transitional yesterday. Was mentioned in Smith's book as very rare, but not pictured. Looked like a Union, just labeled Economy. Price was only $150, but I was not buying transitionals yesterday, so I passed it up. Also didn't buy any planes at all.
Lots and lots of saws and not the run of the mill #7's! Prices seemed to be going solidly upwards on saws. Made me glad I accumulated all I have some years ago!
Stanley 750's and Everlasting chisels seemed cheap--$10 to $20 for very decent blade lengths were readily available.
When I go to sales such as this, I stay within what I'm looking for and try to shut out the other stuff. Unfortunately I have issues staying within my budget. I have started to stick with better grade (don't want to user the word collector though).
The old Record 151 jig had a single, large ball and this made it really versatile (forward/backwards, sideways, figure eights, whatever you wanted to do). I have one that works very well, but I keep the gunk blown off the ball bearing with WD-40 on a frequent basis.
Edited 10/27/2007 12:04 pm ET by GregDaCosta
Thanks, Greg. I believe there was at least one other maker as well.
So many various tools to sharpen with. I suspect it could be a study in and of itself.
While I use a LV jig when needed, my favorite is the Millers Fall #240:
View Image
It should look familiar to anyone who has seen the original LV honing guide. But this one is also micro-adjustable via a better (though less precisely repeatable) mechanism. Allows for lightly cambered blades--but doesn't do side sharpening. But as I mostly hone by hand, oh well!
Take care, Mike
Actually Mike, I have no real interest in building a side sharpening guide ... although I am curious enough to consider how to make one work.
On the other hand, I do believe that freehand side sharpening has a future. It is quite widely used in Japan yet, with the exception of Harrelson's DVD, it has had no publicity in the West that I can find. This afternoon I honed a cambered profile on a thin Stanley blade (for a #5 1/2). With a hollow grind to balance on, side sharpening made the process surprisingly easy.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Hi Derek,
I didn't think you were. The Shopsmith/Woodsmith jiggy was already mentioned. While it could be adapted to stones (I don't like using sandpaper) it would be a pita. Side sharpening is also the basis for the honing system where the blade remains still and the diamond is stroked across it (forget the maker, Woodcraft sells them--M2?).
I too have been using a long-edge motion for what seems forever. Don't know why, really. I probably read or saw it done by someone in times past. And it may be because of honing other larger edge tools that way, whether the tool across the stone or the stone across the tool. Perhaps it is because of my early carving exposure (sharpening out cannel gouges) or honing turning tools.
So many methods, tools etc., to sharpen with. Which is why I usually just tell people to pick one (method and or aid) and become proficient with it.
Take care, Mike
although I am curious enough to consider how to make one work.I use a hunk of oak cut to 30 degrees (what I use Right or Wrong) with a wide bottom that I hold by chisel to and start 'sliding' away..Sort of a no brainer.. OK, so I use a old TS cast iron top for the table. Diamond stone is in a wood holder that is clamped down and away I go. Takes about 30 seconds to Re-sharpen and 30 minutes to find all my stuff to do it!
I really didn't think much at all while sharpening it--I just sharpened it!..Well, in my humble opinion if it works.. IT WORKS!
Intertresting..
I have a Tormek for general sharpening but for 'touchups' I use my extra fine Diamond stone and refresh the edge using a side-to-side motion as this sharpener.
I thought I was the only person who did that. I find it is much quicker that way doing a secondary edge.
EDIT:
I wanted to state that my using 'side-to-side' sharpening was not a idea that just popped into my head. Just out of the military one of my first jobs was setting up Brown and Sharp machines and I had to keep all the tools used sharp. We used surface grinders and most tools (except drill bits) were surfaced/sharpened on a surface grinder that ground along the cutting edge/profile of the tool.
I guess I picked it up from there.
Edited 10/26/2007 1:03 pm by WillGeorge
How interesting to read of this new jig! I've been "side sharpening" for decades, after being taught to do it that way by a carpenter I worked with. In fact, I've always had trouble doing it the "back and forth" way. When trying to use sandpaper for sharpening, the blade always dug into the paper (when "back and forthing"), ruining both the edge and the paper.
But with side sharpening I had no such ill luck.
I also think this gentleman has absconded with another million dollar idea I had - making a rotating side sharpening jig. Mine was going to consist of a base with a sturdy threaded post sticking upright. You'd clamp a blade into a guide that fit over the post, and by rotating the jig back and forth (kind of like using a compass to draw a portion of a circle) over a series of sandpaper plates, you'd get a sharp, even edge. The angle of the blade in the jig would be controlled by a nut that would move up and down the threaded post. The sandpaper plates would be loose, and could be changed out in seconds as you moved from one grit to another. Simple...
But go ahead and steal this from me. I'm used to it...
Zolton* Some people say I have a problem because I drink hydraulic brake fluid. But I can stop any time I want.
Will, just a small diversion here you understand...
I have a Browne and Sharpe number 2 surface grinder. Do you remember any tips ? In theory very simple application but in practice many variables can affect the outcome.
I am also searching for a manual- the innards of the beast look very complicated- the means for variable auto feed rate etc.Philip Marcou
I looked a bit and found this link. I'm not sure how old it is. I just took a quick look and saw something about somebody having a manual. There are a lot of links out there in Brown and Sharp machines.http://www.practicalmachinist.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=002371;p=0As far as the surfacing machine goes I never messed with it. I just used it for sharpening tools. Sorry..The place I worked for had hundreds of Brown and Sharp and Acme machines. Mostly making specialized set screws in all types of materials. I use to set feed rates/ratios (mostly changing several gears) but that was so long ago I forgot most of it. In fact, as I remember, each type of machine was different in set-up and you had to get the manual (from the BOSS! and you always had to explain why you forgot. LOL...) to look up what gears to use for feed rates, rotation speeds, Etc. They had a room full of different gears. Probably thousands of them.As far as repair they always had a tech. from the manufacturer make all repairs. The machines never broke down and most maintenance was resurfacing the ways and rails. BIG JOB.. Most of the guys that came in to do that were OLD timers and surfaced them BY HAND with a special draw knife and bluing!
Edited 10/26/2007 8:21 pm by WillGeorge
Nyet. I am familiar with that site, but so far have drawn a blank on the manual. Thanks anyway.
As it is ,I have learned to get the machine to do a reasonable job, so maybe better to leave sleeping dogs to lie.....just that the auto cross feed is temperamental and I have to feed manually-so far blind fiddling has not made an improvement. (;)Philip Marcou
and I have to feed manually-so far blind fiddling has not made an improvement.. Dang.. That's where all the FUN is!Have you cleaned and lubricated all the ways. If the slide table is dirty? and the gibs are tight it may be binding. I believe there was a clutch in there someplace to prevent damage if the table jammed into the grinding wheel. I could be wrong though because it was so long ago. Hell, I was just a kid then!Molycoat works well on almost any sliding surface! Will the table work alone without actually grinding?I'll look around some more.. Have FUN!
Derek, my #79 and the 98/99brothers thank you as do my sore fingers . Thank goodness they don't need frequent sharpening, only some honing from time to time.
Why have we not seen side sharpening discussed before? I have always dreaded sharpening skewed cutters even though the new LV set up makes it more predictable for the skewed block or l&r fillisters. The little ones are a horror. I just ordered the cd and look forward to seeing it.
Again you have brought sunlite into a dark place. Paddy
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