Replies

1. 
   jackplane | Nov 26, 2003 04:43pm | #1

   Personally, I'd use a scraper card for glue buildup and a jackplane for getting that silky feel only gotten with a plane,not by sanding.I'm sure a Lee Nielsen makes great stuff, but I own several Record planes that always perform well.And at a lower cost.

2. 
   SCFrankland | Nov 26, 2003 04:59pm | #2

   Matthew you never want to use a plane to remove excess glue. Instead use a scraper or a chisel will the glue is still soft. Depending on the size of the surface and what kind of shape it is in before I start, I would do all the work with a #4 1/2. It in my mind anyway will do a better job because it has extra heft and width. Not saying the #5 wouldn't give you as good as a result but that is what works for me. When ever the panel is twist or has a cup in it I tend to go for my #7 or #8 jointer depending on the size of the panel and sharpness of the blade.

   Scott C. Frankland

   "This all could have been prevented if their parents had just used birth control"

3. 
   Jimma | Nov 26, 2003 05:02pm | #3

   I agree that a scraper is the way to go, either an inexpensive card-type that you hold in your hands, or one in which the scraper is held in a fixture of some kind. Lee Valley has several choices on the same page in their catalog (and probably on line as well). I like the #80 scraper plane for the size work you're doing and I think it's only about $40 from Lee Valley. However, the key to working with any scraper is tuning it, because you have to learn how to prepare the edge with a slight hook or burr which is what actually does the scraping. The best way to learn this is by seeing someone do it. Maybe there's a video, but I'd suggest asking around for 10-minute demo. That's all you'll need -- plus practice. Once you get the hang of it it's easy and very effective.

4. 
   RANGERP75R | Nov 26, 2003 05:05pm | #4

   Matt

      No expert here, but agree with Jackplane on the card scraper as the grand finale. You arrive at it with a #4, #4 1/2 smoother or #5 jack depending on your preference and set-up of the plane. Unless........ either those cutting boards or chess board is glued with the end grain up on the surface like a real butchers table from years gone by. The smoothers and jack would need to be low anlge in that case for best results. The block plane gets the call on end-grain if you don't have the above mentioned low-angled bench planes.

      If I'm wrong, someone more expertee will correct me and I'll pick fup my tip for the day. ha..ha...

      Have not used the Veritas system!

   Regards...

   sarge..jt

   Proud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

5. 
   KyleZ | Nov 26, 2003 05:06pm | #5

   Matthew,

   For the needs that you describe, either a smoother or jack  would serve your purposes.  It doesn't really matter which one you buy first, because once you start using planes you will soon become addicted.  Then you will quickly fill all the voids in your arsenel.

   As to your brand choices, there is a significant disparity in price and quality level between Record and Lie-Nielsen.  You should consider some other brands such as Veritas, Knight Toolworks, and ECE for a high quality level but a lower price point than L-N.  If money is not significant in your decision, you can't go wrong with the L-N.  They are beautiful, and work well right out of the box.

   Cheers

   Kyle

6. 
   Tao | Nov 26, 2003 06:04pm | #6

   Try a shavehook or any kind of hook type scraper for scraping glue.  Sandvik makes a couple of nice carbide ones for not too much money.  You have much more leverage.  I know I couldn't scrape much glue squeeze-out with a card scraper before either the scraper or my fingers gave out.

   Michael R

7. 
   Midnight | Nov 26, 2003 11:53pm | #7

   Matthew

   I'm still pretty new at working with hand planes, but to date I've found that the right tool for the job depends greatly on the stock you're using. If the grain is clear, straight and knot / burr free I'd do the initial prep with a #5 and smooth with a #4. A well tuned Record, Stanley etc should cope well enough. However if the grain has some charactor, I've found that the standard blades give intermittant results.

   Personally I've found that between them, there's not much that my L-N#62 and
   4 1/2 can't cope with. The 4 1/2 is available with the York pitch frog which (apparently) can cope with just about anything.

   From the reviews I've seen, the Lee Valley models of these patterns are certainly worth considering. I can't vouch for them myself but there are plenty here who can.

   Good luck with your decision....

   Mike Wallace

   Stay safe....Have fun

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Nov 27, 2003 07:29am | #8

   Mike

      Do you have the 50 degree York pitch on your #4 1/2 or the standard 45*? If the York, have you used that LN 4 1/2 with the standard pitch to make a personal comparison?

      I know someone that could be in the market soon that would be curious to the comparison. Won't tell you who, thought. ha.. ha..

   Regards...

   sarge..jtProud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   MatthewSchenker | Nov 27, 2003 08:28pm | #9

   Thanks everyone for your advice and input. Using hand planes is something I've wanted to explore for a long time, but all the options gets one pretty confused. So many different planes to choose from, and there is the issue of sharpening them properly.

   But I think it's time to just jump in. I'll get a scraper for removing dried glue (a Sandvik). I'm going to get a Veritas 4 1/2 bench plane. The 4 1/2 looks like a good plane to start with, and Veritas looks like a good brand, kind of in the middle between Record and Lie-Nielsen.

   My guess is that pretty soon I'll expand my plane collection, as someone mentioned. I absolutely hate electric jointers. Instead, I've been jointing on the router table. But it really appeals to me to use a jointer plane for this. So, when I get more comfortable using the 4 1/2, and take a workshop or two, maybe I'll end up getting a jointer.

   Anyway, thanks again for your input everyone!

2. 
   Midnight | Nov 27, 2003 11:07pm | #10

   Do you have the 50 degree York pitch on your #4 1/2 or the standard 45*? If the York, have you used that LN 4 1/2 with the standard pitch to make a personal comparison?

   Sarge.

   Right now my 4 1/2 is still fitted the origonal 45 deg frog. I've been using it most of this afternoon to work on some particularly wild elm. I tell ya... this is one seriously impressive smoother. I ordered the York pitch frog this morning but my supplier is temporarily out of stock; couple of weeks befre it gets here. If its performance is even remotely close to the standard pitch, I swear, I'll never buy another Stanley again....

    Mike Wallace

   Stay safe....Have fun

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Nov 27, 2003 11:51pm | #11

   Mike

      Thanks for replying. I like the extra heft and width of the # 4 1/2. Gets it up there weight-wise with the old British smoothers like Norris.

   Regards...

   sarge..jtProud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   Midnight | Nov 28, 2003 12:18am | #12

   Sarge...

   the one question I have about them.... is how do they DO that...?? I'll try to explain what I mean. I'm in the middle of flattening a short length of elm. For the most part the grain's fairly straight and well behaved. The rest of it is like... well... imagine a stack of oval shaped soup plates... no matter which angle you're coming at it from, you're going to catch an edge. Additionally the density changes to something that rivals beech... seriously dense. I hit it with everything I have... The #5, the #7,  the #62... all of them suffered chatter to some extent although granted the #62 less than the rest. The #5 worked fine till it hit the high density patch; the rest of the stroke bore a closer resemblence to the hoochy coochy dance than a planing action. So I reached for the 4 1/2...

   Now bear in mind... I haven't sharpened it yet. Other than some shop dust it's exactly as it was straight outa the box, so I'm not exactly anticipating brilliant results here. Cutting a long story short, it ATE the stuff.. Along the grain, across the grain, against the grain... didn't make any difference... wafer thin edge to edge shavings... zero chatter. Im stood there looking at the thing thinking... HOW...??

   I don't get it....

   Like I said... SERIOUSLY inpressive tool.Mike Wallace

   Stay safe....Have fun

2. 
   RANGERP75R | Nov 28, 2003 01:49am | #13

   Mike

      Just guessing but the extra weight comes into play. The old English smoothers were heavier than a standard #4. I would also guess throat opening, blade sharpness comes into play. If it's not one of those, frankly I wouldn't have a clue. I would chalk it up to "one of the mysteries of life" like you buy four bags of groceries and you take out six bags fo trash. 

      In the meantime, I think I will have another look at that #4 1/2 on their site. Just window shopping of course. Just in case though, I might go ahead and scheme, aahhh....devise a compromise plan of attack. ha.. ha...

   Regards...

   sarge..jtProud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

3. 
   Midnight | Nov 28, 2003 04:55am | #14

   Sarge...

   initially I thought the weight difference helped too.... but the #7 is heavier still... The #7 had it beat hands down for sharpness too. I'd just reassembled it after re-honing the edge... sliced through the straight grain like a hot knife thru butter untill it hit the wild stuff.

   Ever see an 8 1/2 lb plane dance the hoochy coochie...? t'aint purty...

   I'm guessing it's the blade... not so much the thickness but the sheer thickness of it. Better quality steel can't help neither. Hook that up to a more effective chip breaker... maybe...?

   I donno... either way.... I'm impressed and I don't impress easy...

   Suffice to say, come tomorrow when I DO hone the edge, this wild stuff is toast..!!!Mike Wallace

   Stay safe....Have fun

4. 
   RANGERP75R | Nov 28, 2003 07:39am | #16

   Mike

      Suspect Scott has a point. I went to the web-site at LN and discovered it has a 3/16" iron as opposed to a .125 or 1/8". This may be the key as it is stiffer.

   Scott:

      Keep in mind he used a #5 and #7 also, which has even more wieght. But the mass and wieght is distributed over a larger area on these as they are longer. I think you are correct on the iron thickness and the chip-breaker. He had tried a #5 LN low-angle which has an adjustable throat like on a block plane and approximately the same wieght as the #4 1/2. The #5 low-angle doesn't have a chip-breaker as it it set up like a low-angle block. The iron thickness an chip-breaker on the #4 1/2 is the key I am lead to believe.

   Regards...

   sarge..jt

   Proud member of the :  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

   Edited 11/27/2003 11:40:13 PM ET by SARGE

   Edited 11/27/2003 11:46:12 PM ET by SARGE

5. 
   SCFrankland | Nov 28, 2003 05:18am | #15

   Mike if I understand you and Sarge right you guys are asking how the plane works as well as it does.

   Well the short answer is the extra mass in the body dampens the vibrations encountered during planing. Also the thicker irons also add to the stiffness of the blade and yet a further reduction in chatter. A chip breaker making good even contact near the cutting edge of the blade helps support the blade and breaks the shaving as it is pushed up the throat. Another way of looking at it is it reduces the lever action the shaving has as it travels up the blade. The width of the mouth reduces the size of the shaving that can passed through the opening. Therefore as the blade slices a layer off, the front part of the mouth supports the leading edge of the shaving not allowing it to run ahead of the cutter resulting in tearout.Scott C. Frankland

   "This all could have been prevented if their parents had just used birth control"

6. 
   jazzdogg | Nov 28, 2003 09:00am | #17

   Scott,

   Well said.

   PaulWhether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.