Replies

1. 
   DonaldCBrown | Sep 16, 2007 03:01am | #1

   Exploding components is the obvious answer, but you don't say how you built up your final object. However, you should be able to back out to the basic elements of your cabinet--the individual stiles and rails of a door, for example

1. 
   xmike | Sep 16, 2007 04:48am | #2

   I can explode the groups and then the components, of course, but I haven't figured out how to display and then rearrange the parts on one plane so that I can rearrange them into cut diagrams for sheet goods to determine how many sheets of ply I'll need, and to determine how many board feet of solid wood I'll need for the face frames, etc.
   I'm sure it isn't as complicated as I'm making it.
   MikeEdit: Also, I've just opened my model again and note that there are 44 components. Some are tied to the vertical axis, others to the horizontal axis, and some are rotated 30 degrees. Getting all that onto one plane and oriented so that I can lay the plywood parts out together and the frame members out together just daunts me.
   Mike

   Edited 9/15/2007 10:17 pm ET by Mike_D

1. 
   DonaldCBrown | Sep 16, 2007 05:16am | #3

   Once you have your components exploded to display individual elements, you can copy and move each element to some holding area. For example, corral the elements in a Top View with rectangles representing sheets of plywood and lengths of hardwood lumber.Once all the elements are in that planar view, then you can move them around on the plywood or hardwood rectangles to optimize (or at least get close) your use of materials.

2. 
   daverichards | Sep 17, 2007 05:00pm | #8

   Just a few comments.

   First, be careful. You don't want to "explode" the components. At least not in the sense that SketchUp uses the term. This would end up creating quite a mess.

   There are a couple of ways to make rotating and positioning components easier. First, for components that don't have faces that are parallel to the global axes, use faces in the model that are aligned as desired to set the plane of rotation. Put the Rotate protractor on that face and hold the Shift key. This will lock the plane of rotation. Then you can move the protractor to the selected component, click on it at the desired point of rotation and complete the rotation to the desired position. Sometimes you might find it easier to draw some temporary lines in the component to create a face that is aligned as needed.

   There is a plugin available that will generate a cutlist in the form of a CSV file. It makes a list of the component names, quantities and the dimensions of the bounding boxes. It calculates board feet for each component and a total. If components are given names that include the word "sheet", the plugin places that component in a separate section. specifically for sheet goods. This file can be opened as a spreadsheet or in a word processor or it can be imported into a Cutlist program.

   Note that the bounding box may not actually describe the real size of the component. It depends upon how it is drawn. If it isn't correct, you can rotate the components so that it is aligned with the global axes, explode it and make it a component again. This can create some other issues so save the model and then do a Save as to save the rotated parts as a second file.

1. 
   xmike | Sep 18, 2007 12:11am | #9

   Well, I did try "exploding" groups and components and that did cause ####mess. I will try again without exploding the components, but it seemed that I have to explode the groups.Is it possible to do this without exploding the groups? That would be handy, but not essential.Mike D

1. 
   DonaldCBrown | Sep 18, 2007 01:08am | #10

   Mike-I was the first to suggest Exploding components and/or groups, so permit me to apologize for causing ####mess.What I intended was that you make a copy of your model, then to tear that apart (Explode) to the level of individual pieces to be cut from your material. By working from a copy of the original, if you do undesirable things, you still have the unblemished original.You haven't indicated how you put things together for your drawing, so I can't offer specific steps. Let me illustrate with a way I might assemble the parts of a cabinet.I might have two sizes of frame-and-panel doors. So I would have A component, SmallDoor, composed of two instances of component SmallStile, two instances of component SmallRail, and one component SmallPanel.In order to place individual elements in a framework to determine the best use of materials, I would Move/Copy an instance of SmallDoor off to the side and Explode that component and spatially separate the Stiles, Rails, and Panel. There is no need to Explode these Components further, because each represents an individual piece to be cut from my material. I'd then make as many copies of the SmallStile etc as needed for the number of SmallDoors. Those I'd Move to a representation of solid timber or sheet goods and move them around to get a good cut
   list.I'd follow this procedure for the LargeDoor component and other components that I had used to form my final model.The basic point is to get down to the level of individual pieces that are to be cut from your stock. Sketchup usually has more than one way to do the steps toward a final model. You may have nested components composed of several layers of subcomponents and groups of subgroups, or you may not use components at all. So how you unwind to individual elements depends on how you built your model.

2. 
   daverichards | Sep 18, 2007 06:49pm | #11

   Mike, if you are putting components into groups (nesting) you can edit the groups and rearrange the components inside them.

   If you have a few minutes, would you e-mail me? I have some questions about how you are using groups and components.

3. 
   xmike | Sep 19, 2007 01:00am | #12

   Hi Dave,
   I don't find your email address, so I'll try to answer here.I started by "modeling" the overall outline and design of the cabinet, working with simple boxes, triangles, and planes and then refining the shapes until I could see on the screen what I saw in my head. That took evenings of effort, and when I was finished, I liked what it looked like, but I had no idea how to break it down into parts.So I started again from scratch, referring to my completed 3-D model, but this time building the unit up in sketchup a part at a time. For example, I would outline the base as a plane, make it a component so that the next step would not merge with it, and "build" the parts to make that base. Each separate foot became a component. Each skirt, each brace, each part was drawn out in place against the base plane and the adjacent part (now a component) and then made into it's own discrete component. Once I had the base defined in all it's parts (each a component), I collected those parts into a "group", and renamed that group "Base". Ditto the cabinet in three parts, and then, ditto the top. My objective has been to make each part that I will have to cut or shape to be a discrete component. Logical sub-assemblies of those components have been collected into groups. I was not 100% successful in following the above. For example, I made the main bottom of the cabinet in one piece, even though in reality it will be a piece of sheet goods that has been edged on all sides with solid maple.Now that I'm done, I can see other, more efficient ways to make the base, but I have so much effort invested in the model that I think that it will be more efficient to actually make it the way I've drawn it than re-do that part of the design in sketchup and then make it in wood. Besides, it'll be placed where it will be bumped into a lot, so the fact that I've over designed the little beast doesn't bother me that much.I will attempt to attach the .skp file so that you and anyone else that is interested in looking at it may do so. I haven't yet implemented breaking it back down into components using Scenes.Mike DEdit: I've just verified that it uploaded to this site and can be opened by anyone with Sketchup on their machine, so .... enjoy.
   Mike D

   Edited 9/18/2007 6:03 pm ET by Mike_D

4. 
   daverichards | Sep 19, 2007 01:25am | #13

   Mike, I think I understand your process and after looking at your model I see that you seem to have a pretty good handle on the component and group thing. I don't really see any problem with the way you designed the cabinet. I did modify the base a bit so as to center the middle rails and to make the short pieces on either side of the center rails the same length.

   I also deleted some unused styles and components.

   The next thing is to start creating whatever you need to work from in the shop. After you've worked out the details as you have, you might find you really need very little in the way of shop drawings. Afterall, you've built the thing once.

    

   By the way, you can e-mail me by clicking first on my name and then on the e-mail link in the profile window.

   Dave

   Edited 9/18/2007 6:26 pm ET by DaveRichards

2. 
   killenwood | Sep 16, 2007 06:06am | #4

   Mike D... I believe you commented on my Design, Click, Blog asking whether I had covered the subject of arranging the components for dimensioned drawings and cut lists.

   I will cover this in an upcoming blog with pictures and downloadable drawings, but I can quickly give you some advice.

   From your note I can't tell whether you've been using "Scenes" in your model, or whether you have done the total design in one physical place. If you are not familiar with "Scenes" it is a valuable tool for spreading out your components into multiple pages, thus creating a detailed dimensioned drawing for each component. On a model like yours, I may have 50 pages or scenes in my SketchUp file. Usually, I will copy each component in the assembled view and push the copy down the red axis a few feet. Then I will show this component only, in one blown up page or scene. This makes a tab for each scene, so in my models I will have say 50 tabs which are labeled for each component. When I'm on one of these pages, I orient the component for a jpg snapshot so I can see all the dimensions. I may make another scene for the same component in a turned view to see the back details, for example.

   I do another scene called Cutting Diagram..... copy the whole model over to that location, then take each component in series off the copied model and place on lumber planks. This means I have to rotate the components to "lay down" on the planks.

   Tim

1. 
   xmike | Sep 17, 2007 02:58am | #6

   Hi Tim,
   Yes, I did ask this same question on your blog.
   I haven't used scenes before, so I'll have to research it, but it sounds just what I've been searching for.
   Thanks very much for your answer.
   Mike D

3. 
   charliez | Sep 16, 2007 07:35pm | #5

   DId you use the free or pay version of sketchup for the picture shown? I have been trying to decide what cad software to use.

   Charlie

1. 
   xmike | Sep 17, 2007 03:02am | #7

   I used the free version. It seems plenty powerful. You can download the pro version free to test it out for a short while. For my purposes, the free version is all I need.
   I did buy the "Google Sketchup for Dummies" book which helped me a lot. I missed the section on scenes, however.
   Mike D

4. 
   user-1119429039 | Sep 19, 2007 06:35pm | #14

   Dear Mike,

   Take a look at our blog, 'Design.Click.Build.' It's all about SketchUp. There should be a recent post about creating a cutlist. You can also post a question on the blog, which should get you the answer you need. Hang in there. When SketchUp's good, it's very, very good, but when it's bad it's frustrating. However, there is always a solution to whatever problem you're having. And, early next month, in FWW #194, you'll see an entire article about SketchUp, written by one of the bloggers.

   Best,
   David Heim
   Managing Editor
   FWW.Com

1. 
   xmike | Sep 20, 2007 02:13am | #15

   Hi David,
   Thanks for the input. Yep, the program definitely has it's little quirks, but compared to some that I've worked with over the years, it's surprisingly free of major flaws. And hasn't just crashed unexpectedly, taking all my work with it, even once!The Blog definitely seems like the place to go. I'll have to familiarize myself with all the protocols there so that I'll be as comfortable there as I am here in Knots.Mike D

2. 
   jerryoak | Oct 30, 2007 07:00pm | #16

   Great thread! As someone who has used a different cad program these post have helped me unlearn habits that don't work in SketchUp. I looked for the post in the design-click-build blog on creating a cut-list and didn't find it, what is its title? Currently I'm flipping between SketchUp and Excell windows and typing in the info, any improvement would help,Thanks

1. 
   user-1119429039 | Oct 30, 2007 07:31pm | #17

   Dear JerryOak,

   If you go to the Design.Click.Build blog, check the narrow "blog entries" column at the right. Scroll down to the last line, which should say "archives." Click on that word, which will call up a list of all the blog entries so far. I think the one you want is from August 17, "Lumber Estimating and Cutting Strategy." But don't hesitate to browse. You never know what will turn up.

   Hope this helps, and I'm delighted you like the blog.

   Best,

   David HeimManaging EditorFineWoodworking.Com

2. 
   daverichards | Oct 30, 2007 08:11pm | #18

   Jerry, here is a link to the plugin that generates a cutlist from the selected components in your model. http://sketchup-pro-groups.googlegroups.com/web/CutListAndMaterials32a.zip?gda=4PEQRksAAABt0Hgz39kI94WJhYm0b0COrls8CPFxEO1MuAURivwFjmG1qiJ7UbTIup-M2XPURDQtrbbjJoa4eiOUtfx2nHctwVtO2VF6kA2nzyEl0kTzbg

   Unzip the contents to Plugins folder in SketchUp 6 and open SketchUp. You should find an entry for this plugin in the Plugins folder. (That probably sounds poorly worded but it isn't. All plugins--*.rb files--go into the Plugins folder but may end up being accessed from other menus depending upon how they are written and what they do.)

   To use the plugin, select the components in your model and then select the menu entry from the Plugins menu. The following is from the script itself.

   # Usage       : Call script using Plugins menu, and file name *-CutList.cvs is created in the model's #               folder.  It is readable by text editors, and cutlist programs like CutList Plus.#               This script uses bounding boxes to ascertain the dimensions of parts within the user#               selection.  Only components, groups and components within components are recorded.  Enure that#               the component axes are adjusted to the component to give the smallest bounding box to#               get accurate sizes.  The top level component/s should be aligned to the axes of the#               model.  Volumes are given in board foot.#               Any component whose name contains the string Part or part will not be treated as wood #               for the cutlist but as a hardware part and it will be counted.#               Any component that has a material whose name contains the word sheet or Sheet will#               be treated as sheet material in a separate list.  Sheet material is calculated in#               square feet rather than board feet.

    

   Edited 10/30/2007 1:13 pm ET by DaveRichards

   Edited 10/30/2007 1:13 pm ET by DaveRichards