Replies

1. 
   danfromsaskatoon | May 30, 2005 12:07am | #1

   cant help with the decision on the saw but what does flamed mean pc illiterate u know dan

1. 
   BlacknTan | May 30, 2005 03:55am | #2

   "Flamed" in this context would mean mocked or looked down upon. I've been in some forums where a stupid question is not welcome, or snide comments can be the standard response to newbie questions.

1. 
   danfromsaskatoon | May 30, 2005 05:27am | #4

   followed a discusion last night about dado blades it was kind of an interesting tiff when one took offence, but i sure learned a lot from the ??? that was posted anyway off topic dan

2. 
   gregb | May 30, 2005 05:04am | #3

   No flaming here. I can't comment on the performance of the Skil, other than to say the Skil isn't a heavy duty saw, but I can comment on the Dewalt since I owned one for years. If you buy the Dewalt (or the comparable, maybe slightly better Bosch) you probably won't regret it. You may not even outgrow it, depending on how into home projects you get.

   OTOH, if you buy the Skil, you may well outgrow it; you may want more ripping capacity, accuracy, power, etc. Maybe try to think about what you'll be doing with the saw 3 or 5 years from now, & see if that leads you to a decision.

   My experience with both the Dewalt & the Bosch we now use on larger remodels has been positive. They both have good fences, enough power, adequate size tables, etc. They are excellent saws for what they are: portable jobsite saws. If you really want a dedicated saw set up in your basement, garage, or whereever, & you don't need the portability feature of these saws, consider a contractors saw. You can often find one in the same price range as either of the portables mentioned, but you get many more features & longevity.

   Do a search in knots or breaktime if you're interested in hearing peoples experiences about the different saws out there- there's a ton of information & opinions.

   Oh yeah... I've also admired that little Skil X-Shop, & wondered why one of the pro-level manufactures hasn't incorporated a few of the ideas from it into a machine for the builders & finish carpenters out there. Seems to me Skil has some nice features & ideas. They just don't make professional grade tools anymore.

3. 
   Dustmight | May 30, 2005 02:22pm | #5

   Right up front I'll tell you that I haven't used this saw and it's not my intent to flame it, but my first impression when I examined it wasn't favorable (but I've been wrong before!) It's loaded with "stuff", but appeared to be fairly light duty in all applications, has a small table, I think a direct drive universal motor, and most of the same drawbacks as other saws in the category. The "stuff" brings the price up, but you're not getting any better basic quality. It appears to be a loaded version of their other benchtop saws. I'm skeptical about how well any of the added features will work. IMO $380 is alot to spend on a loaded Yugo.

   I think you'd be better off with a longterm investment of another $100-$150. HD has had the Delta 36-675 clearanced for $317-$399 over the past few months. It's a full size contractor saw with 1-1/2hp induction motor, belt drive, and a steel fence. Sears frequently puts the 22104 on sale in the $450 range...it has an internally mounted motor and takes up less space, yet has a ton of design advantages. Lowes has the Hitachi contractor saw at $499....while not my favorite in the class, the price is reasonable and it also has an internally mounted motor that saves space. You can also buy a great used saw in this price range.

   If the full size saws are out, at least look at the Delta TS350, Delta, TS300, or Ryobi BT-3100. If you need the portability of a jobsite saw, that DW744 you mentioned gets high marks, as does the Bosch 4000, PC3812, Ridgid 2400, and the top Sears portable ($400-$500). You might also want to investigate why your wife is interested in the Skil....is it possible she has a "surprise" for you? ...in which case it looks like a fantastic tool! ;-) Good luck!

1. 
   BlacknTan | May 30, 2005 10:05pm | #6

   As far as I know, no surprises are intended (although in the past I have ruined one said surprise). I am very wary of do-it-all tools. In my experience with electronics, the sum of the parts is very rarely as good as a dedicated device. However, space is also a premium in my situation. So a full-size saw is out of the question. I'll take a look at the Deltas, Ryobi, Bosch, Ridgid and even Sears. I'm honestly surprised Sears has ranked so highly. While I like their hand tools, I thought their power tools have enjoyed a less than stellar reputation. I've heard too many Crapsmen comments in the past...The thing that "scares" me about the X-Shop is the inital description of the tablesaw, "a genuine 15 Amp Skilsaw." Certain marketing terms make me sit up and pay attention. Why do we need to call the saw "genuine?" And who are we selling this saw to? While I do not have the need for a professional, full size setup, I'd like to at least get something decent. And something I won't accidentally cut a finger off of due to idiot-proofing or gadgets.

2. 
   BG | May 31, 2005 02:51pm | #8

   BlacknTan,
   I owned a Skill Table saw and used it hard for a couple of years. Many of us start out wanting an instant shop ...and have little in the way of money, space, knowledge and are unsure of our commitment to the hobby...so we try to go cheap. Unfortunately, what appears cheap on the surface is much more expensive in the long run.
   Okay, facts first. The Skill table top saw is not a terrible saw...it cuts wood. It's very loud, vibrates a lot, has a terrible fense and dose not accept aftermarket addons because of non-standard miters...and only 1/2" dado blades ...if you dare. Because of it size, it is dangerous trying to feed larger stock...very little sapce in front of the blade (about 6") and, of course, a small table top. One of the first things I did was to build a large table that I could drop it in so that additional support was provided and some dust collection capabilities...in other words, it didn't save any space, it took more space.
   I built a lot of stuff with it: bookcases, desks, cabinets, center island for the kitchen. I wish I could throw all that furniture away now; joinery sucks, chip out on the plywood, poorly fitting moldings. I did not understand that vibration in the saw means poor quality cuts. The poor cuts can be mitigated with aftermarket addons, skill, other hand tools, skill, jigs, time and skill. So when you start to add up all the other items you realize that the 'big tool'(TS, BS, Lathe, joiner, etc.) is the cheapest part of the investment...with the biggest return.
   It's nice to have your wife enthusiastic. She needs to know however, that there is a huge learning curve and a lot of money will be wasted in both tools and wood unless you get the facts first. I ended up with a cabinet saw in my tiny shop...attached a drop down outfeed table. The cabinet saw actually has the smallest footprint, collects dust and with outfeed table can be used for setup and finishing...so the space is well utilized. Another key tool is a good workbench....it is really required for higher quality work and keep costs down. So, sorry for the long thread, hope it helps. 

1. 
   BlacknTan | Jun 01, 2005 03:50am | #9

   BG, thanks for the thoughtful response. I've been slowly acquiring tools, as I know an instant shop is not possible. The tablesaw is basically the last component I need at this time. I've been trying to buy decent tools as money allows, knowing that while my knowledge is certainly lacking, you can't do anything worthwhile without quality tools. And that's why I'm here, seeking the advice of those who know. So it appears my initial instinct is on the money, that I should really consider a dedicated saw. While it may take up more space, I'll be happier in the long run. Now to break the news to my wife...

1. 
   Dustmight | Jun 01, 2005 01:53pm | #10

   BlacknTan said: "So it appears my initial instinct is on the money, that I should really consider a dedicated saw. While it may take up more space, I'll be happier in the long run. Now to break the news to my wife..."Have her browse through this thread! I have a hunch she'll understand...

2. 
   danfromsaskatoon | Jun 02, 2005 05:22pm | #11

   i agree with BG got my first cabinet saw this year and wish it was 20 yrs sooner my shop started on a cement pad with a work bench and a skillsaw, jigsaw and 3 safeway chisels( the kind they gave away with food purchases in the 60's) still have the chisels and the jigsaw. slowly added tools. probably wasted more money on cheap tools than i have in tools now. realizing kids and family get in the way (joke) i would buy a dedicated saw one that i would keep for twenty years and make my wife and family all the nice things they wanted. just my thoughts dan

4. 
   DrChops | May 30, 2005 10:28pm | #7

   hi,

   first off, check out woodworker's journal (apr 05, rolling benchtop table saws), and wood (jun/jul 05, mid-priced table saws) for a couple of table saw shootouts which may help you.

   i haven't used the skill x-shop, but i did inspect one at lowe's recently. there were several reasons i wasn't impressed, generally associated with fit and finish. the table was small, which will limit the size of peieces you can cut. also, it looked to be stamped aluminum, which doesn't give the saw much weight or stability. but, the biggest problems that i saw were that the fence had quite a bit of play even when locked down, and the mitre guide channel is a nonstandard size. i had a craftsman saw with the same channel (and its the same channel available on the tradesman saws as well). the problem is that you can't get the miter guide to fit tightly in the channel, and you can't buy any aftermarket rails that fit it. that means, you're limited in making sleds and jigs, and you're stuck with the mitre guide that comes with the saw. if you're mostly doing DIY carpentry where accuracy of cut is not so critical (building fences, decks, lofts, treehouses, etc), then you might be okay. but, if you want to do joinery, you'll have to do a lot of "hand tuning" (via plane, rasp, sanding, etc) once you make your cut on the saw before the joint will fit well.

   if possible, see if you can try the saw out (or get a sales type to demo it for you by cutting a few boards) before you buy, and look critically for the things that will be most important for the jobs you plan/want to do with it.

   best of luck,
   bert

   if it's worth doing at all, then it's worth doing well.