When woodworking schools offer short-term classes (eg., weekend, one week, etc.) a project may be named (eg. jewelry box) and then a description of skill level is indicated — beginner, intermediate, advanced — are typical skill categories. And ‘beginner’ may mean ‘I have no experience whatsoever’ or, ‘I’ve cut pieces of wood for various purposes,’ or ‘I’ve done some diy carpentry.’ It would be helpful for both schools and students to have a better way to let people know what skill level the course will be taught at. Anyone who has taken a few of these classes will know how ‘painful’ it is for everyone to have a widely differing skill level in students. So, I’d like to try to develop a slightly more nuanced ‘rating’ of skill level, based on skills actually needed for the course project, on a 10 point scale. It might look something like this:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
[HYPOTHETICALS!]
Cutting board = 1
Cabriole leg = 9
Mitered Box = 2/3
Chair = 10
Dadoed book shelf = 5
Dovetailed box =7
I’m not advocating the value of any project over another, but seeking to develop a way to help teachers and students convey a clearer idea of skill levels. If a slightly more nuanced system of skill level ‘pitch’ of the course could be developed, instructors will be able to think of how their project fits into a larger field of projects in terms of skills that will be called on in the course, and students will be better able to gauge the challenge they are engaging.
So, if you woodworking savants would suggest a project and give it what you think is an appropriate skill level number 1-10, that would be great.
Best,
Reg
Replies
Good question but likely difficult to answer. I would think the number of individual dimensioned pieces, size of the finished project, joints, etc will play a role in that number.
I’m curious if wood species is ever considered. A dovetailed box out of eastern white pine would be quite a bit easier than the same box made from jatoba.
Schools are going to do what's best for the school. There's not a lot of money to be made, and they are interested in attracting students, not turning them away. I've seen only one that has perquisites you had to have taken before you can take something more advanced.
I've been in classes where there was a wide disparity in skill levels, and it wasn't a big deal. Though I will say I've never been to a class where there is more than maybe 10 students.
I agree with the numbered project scheme. I think it might help everyone to "know" what they're getting into.
I often read post on this and other forums where someone asks a question at a level 8 but only has level 2 experience/knowledge. Seems like too many jump in, get in above their heads, then get discouraged when someone says "it's not that simple".
Long ago, in the days when this forum was called Knots and had some very savvy posters, I read a remark from, I think, Charles Stanforth, who opined that anyone with the motivation could make an excellent and complex piece of furniture by their second piece.
My own experience tends to agree with that. It took me three pieces before that third one was something difficult but achieved, even with a few less-than-perfect bits.
You get more skilled by practicing more skills, not by avoiding their practice.
Lataxe, still learning, mind.
Hmm. 99% self taught so I'm not sure where I would fall in this. I've made chairs and dovetailed boxes but never a cabriole leg. Interesting thoughts on it though. Part of the reason I'm self taught was frustration with schools. I would want to jump into a project that was just above my skill and they would want me to take the1st2 or 3 classes before that one. I wasn't going to pay someone to teach me things I already figured out.
This is a common problem as I see it.
Everywhere you look, you can find a beginner class OR an expert class, there is not much in between. (tips & tricks don't count)
Now we have a situation where someone who has just gotten through their first cutting board project, now thinks they can take on a large hutch with doors, drawers, shelving and hardware. (spoiler alert, this typically doesn't work out well)
There is a lot of benefit to understanding wood and learning the "basics" before you move into more complex builds and techniques. This knowledge can save you from wasting time, wood and in some cases the entire project. Far too many just rush in above their skill level and find themselves with no way out when a problem occurs.
It seems like half the question on this and other forums fall into that category.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for trying new things and pushing you limits but plan the entire project before you start and have an idea if you can pull it off.
It is a common problem. Part of the problem is a lack of assessment of skill in the hobby. Professional woodworkers would not be shy at assessment. In the land of hobby woodworking its about the lawers getting involved and money being made by selling classes. The basics can be learned without classes. Books are amazing if actually read. Perhaps it's luck but I have yet to be "stuck" as you suggested. Perhaps it's thinking all the way through a project from the start. So many classes offered are poorly taught and not worth the coin. They go straight into methods with no regard for why, the science behind it. Books do a way better job in my opinion.
I don't understand this word "books" you speak of.
Is this something new, is it an app or a video?
I agree with the poor teaching, though it seems to be a reflection of the attention span. What's being taught as far as I can tell, is basically inert knowledge. (look it up)
I say this having talked to many people who have taken classes and am a bit stunned at what they didn't learn.
Feels about right. Books and the early forums were my saviors. This one feels similar. As long as you can self edit past the "buy this $1000 tool to fix your problem" comments it's very helpful.
edwarxweber -- I think you perceive the problem I see. Indications of skill level are used because they are helpful, for those offering and those taking project based courses (weekend, week long projects). My intuition is that 'beginner,' 'intermediate,' and advanced is not as helpful as a more nuanced scale might be.
When chiwoodworker mentions reading books and thinking through the project from the start, this precisely begs the question. Understanding what you read, or 'thinking through a project' assumes that you already have the sort of understanding of woodworking that in itself would suggest taking courses is rather useless. Actually doing a project isn't just skill building, it's also learning how to think about the woodworking process. The scale system I have in mind is precisely to help people to 'read' and 'think through' a project, and so to assess one's own skill level.
“[Deleted]”
At some point we all were "beginners". Myself, I was probably a level 1/4. I read hundreds of articles (probably level 10 stuff) in Fine Woodworking that were way beyond my skill level but I learned techniques and patience and they inspired me to become better. As for courses...if a beginner wants to take a course in "advanced chair making" he should be allowed. He may or may not know what he is getting into and he may make a fool of himself but it just might inspire him to learn and be a better woodworker.
True, but it also might make him or her think that the learning curve is too steep and not worth it. Many Fine Woodworking readers may be fine examples of being self-taught or persevere through getting in over their head and botching a project. Some people are failure motivated and others success motivated in various situations. The former may be committed to achieving success despite failure, the latter may not, and need confidence building success. It would be nice to help people experience success and fall in love with woodworking. Failure is never an experience that is hard to find. I know many women, in particular, for whom the latter path was important for them.
I find that the YouTube culture of woodworking tends to;
A. over complicate simple things (making themselves sound smarter than they are)
B. over simplify complicated things (covering for not being as smart as they think they are)
Everyone wants a shortcut or "hack".
Learning the basics is boring and not entertaining.
"self taught" does not have the same meaning as it used to and it shows.
“[Deleted]”
I like this, especially drafting a design work. 'Reading' comprehensively is one thing, 'writing' is another, and doing the latter promotes the facility for the former.
Having recently done a stint at the Wendell Castle Workshop for a project with Andy Glanz clearly tagged 'advanced' (so I was duly 'warned'), I was prepared in some skills, but definitely not in others (eg. power carving). I believe if I had taken this on years ago before I had developed a knowledge and skill base, I, personally, might have found the likely much-flawed outcome deflating. There were many, many ways one could go wrong (and I found a few).