I bought a house years ago that has a bar built in to the dining room. For the bar top a large slab of either pine or maple was used. It’s dimensions are 9′ X 20″ X 2 1/4″ so it is a substantial slab and rather unique. It appears that it has bowed over the years where the middle is higher than the sides (I guess that is what bowed means…). So whenever a put a bottle of wine or any glass, etc in the middle of the slab it wobbles. I have thought of sanding down the center of the slab to even it off and then shellacing it again. But I was wondering if there is anything else that I could do to get a flat bartop other than replacing it? This may be a dumb question but I’m good for those…
Regards,
Buzzsaw
Replies
Whether it be hard wood or soft wood 9 chances out of 10 the top is sealed and the bottom is not. This would account for the cupped top. Sanding is an option but you maybe better off removing the top stripping the finish off and see if will flatten out on its own chances are it won't go total flat but it may improve some. I have seen this work before but not always. If it doesn't that sanding or planing maybe a good solution if the top thickness will allow it and when you go to reply your finish then seal all sides to help prevent further cupping.
Scott C. Frankland
Scott's WOODWORKING Website
"This all could have been prevented if their parents had just used birth control"
Buzzsaw, Are you sure it's the bar top that's tipsy?
Perhaps it's the wine? Beaujolais is notoriously underaged.
Methinks your slab is still 'Wet behind the ears'
How's the basement (Cellar?)Damp?
Underside of slab not sealed?
Poly, or UGH! Shellac?
Can you turn the tables and turn the top over?
Can you have a glass top fitted over the top?
Drink Sherry and enjoy the undulating 'Character' and 'Mellowness' that comes with aging.
I recommend Harveys Bristol Cream.
Get a caskful and set it right on the center
Stein
Edited 1/5/2004 1:09:20 AM ET by steinmetz
Cute Stein.
If you can access the uderside, then I would screw in steel angle iron (1-1/2" web x 1/8" might work or 2" x 2" x 3/16) every foot to 18" or more by using this method:
Drill a couple holes for screws in the center of each angle pc, say 1" apart. Maybe three if you snap screws. Then add shims (1/4"?) on the ends between the angle and the underside of bartop. Screw your brains out. This should suck the bow down flat - I give about 95% success rate here - done it before. If it helps but not enough, add more pcs of angle and thicken the shims.
I just realized you may have maple - you'll need to double the strength by using thicker angle iron and super duty deck screws or lag bolts.
"The furniture designer is an architect." - Maurice DuFrenes (French Art Deco furniture designer, contemporary of Ruhlmann)
http://www.pbase.com/dr_dichro
Edited 1/5/2004 1:21:53 AM ET by DrDichroic
Thanks DrDichroic,
Your solution sounds pretty elaborate for a novice woodworker but I may give it a shot. I have easy access to the underside and the slab is fairly thick. Thanks for your input...Regards,
Buzzsaw
Re the ends exposed? If not then a few kerf cuts will aid in bring the top back down towards flat.Scott C. Frankland
Scott's WOODWORKING Website"This all could have been prevented if their parents had just used birth control"
Scott,
Could you please elaborate as to where the cuts should be made? One of the ends is exposed...Regards,
Buzzsaw
Buzzsaw,
The type of warpage you are describing is called a crown in the board. Bow is curving along the length of the board's face. If the two ends of the bar curved up or down that would be a bow.
So far, nobody has asked the one question that needs to be answered before any useful advice can be given. Is the crown permanent or does it change between summer and winter, that is between the more humid and less humid times of the year? A permanent crown is much easier to fix than one that changes with the seasons.
Also, how large is the crown, if you balanced a straightedge across the top, how big is the gap between the outer ends of the straightedge and the edges of the top? One last question, is the crown a smooth curve or more like a sharp kink at the high spot with the wood between the kink and the edge relatively flat?
John W.
JohnW,
Sorry I took so long to get back but I just measured the gap between the crown and the edges with a level and a ruler. It is 6/16" so exactly between 1/4" and 1/2". The bow is about the same at all times from what I can tell. It is hard for me to answer your last question but it appears to be a fairly smooth curve. I think that the easiest thing to do would be to plane the high spot down. I know it would take a while and them re-varnish the whole bar top (top and bottom). As I'm writing this my computer is on the bartop so it isn't a huge bow but it is bothersome. I welcome your experienced advice... Go Pats!!!
Regards,
Buzzsaw
Being the crown doesn't seem to change much from season to season, you should be able to flatten the top out by planing and not have future problems with the top dishing inward a few months after you flatten it out.
The warpage the top experienced probably occured when it was first brought indoors and became dryer than it had ever been before. As long as the humidity in your home doesn't change much from summer to winter the top will probably stay reasonably flat forever. Finishing the top and bottom equally will help to keep the top flat during daily humidity fluxuations but no finish will permanently block out moisture, so the top will still move some as the weather changes over the course of the year.
Many finishes will dull a plane blade quickly. Be prepared to resharpen your plane right after you scrub off the old finish.
John W.
If the top is a a one-piece slab, it may have the pith, or center of the tree in it. What this will give you is cupping, bow and wind. All the posts about an un-even finish are correct.
IME, Maple is more apt to do this than Pine, and I doubt if you will be able to pull it flat by driving screws through some kind of batten. You will need to wet the concave face, clamp it flat, even up the finish, add some battens (with enlongate screw holes), and hope for the best. Don't be surprised if a crack or two show up. The relief cuts on the bottom help too.
How about getting a spray bottle and spraying water on the bottom side a few times to see if the bow corrects itself?? That might tell you the root of the problem.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)
PlaneWood
Could this be your excuse for a 20" jointer? :-)
John
I like it...Regards,
Buzzsaw
wood that thick takes a long time to dry out completely that is why it's just now showing up..
look at the edge of the slab.. see the growth rings in it? what part of the log do you have? if they start out as little circles and get bigger then you have the center of the log.. called the pithe..
that piece of wood will always try to cup or bow that way.. if you manage to force it straight with some of the methods suggested here at some point it will win and bow again..
if you have vertical lines (called quarter sawn) then given time and the correct sealing techniques you should be able to get it back straight. some of the methods suggested will work..
if you have horizontal lines (growth rings) again that will respond to the techniques mention but it will never be as stable as quarter sawn
Frenchy,
The lines go parallel to the length of the bar and they start thinner on the edges and then get wider toward the center. The center of the bar has many knots which look like eyes staring at me from the center of the bar top. Thanks for caring about my problem..Regards,
Buzzsaw
then the center of your top is a heart center.. I'm afraid the problem will not get much better. Little of what has been offered here will make much of a differance in the long run.. the solution is one of two things..
correct it temp. and when it reoccurs recorrect it again..
Or, be amazed that mother nature figures out a way to get her way even when the tree is no longer alive!! (now that's a scary thought isn't it?)
Hello Buzz,
Been following this thread, and here are a couple of thoughts I had. From your description of the grain pattern in the top, it sounds like the slab was taken from near the center of the tree. I don't think you will have much luck in trying to swell the cupped side with water, or in pulling it flat from underneath, given the thickness of the plank. I'd recommend flattening it by planing (you've got plenty of thickness), and then sand the top side, then finish BOTH sides with an equal amount of the finish of your choice. Hopefully the slab is well enough seasoned now that it will remain relatively flat, however you might want to insure it's flatness with some battens underneath, attached in such a way that the top can swell and shrink across it's width.
Good luck,
joinerswork
Joinerswork,
In your opinion could I plane the slab in place? All I have at this point are hand planes. Can you recommend a brand for a power planer? Ideally, it would be nice to be able to remove the slab and run it through a large planer at a mill but removing it would be difficult. Any help here would be appreciated as I am a novice... Thanks...
Regards,
Buzzsaw
Buzz,
Sure you can hand plane it flat. Just be aware of the placement of any fasteners you might get into. I'd recommend starting with a foreplane (sort of a jack plane with the iron ground to a convex shape). Taking a fairly heavy cut, plane diagonally across the grain, starting at one end of the slab and working your way down the length. Alternate the direction of your diagonal strokes from time to time, to help insure the flatness of the top as you go. Check your progress with a long straightedge and a pair of winding sticks to keep from planing a twist or hollow into the surface. You'll be starting by planing the ridge off the middle of your plank, gradually approaching the edges as you remove the offending bulge from the center. Once you have the thing reasonably flat, change to a try plane (longer plane, blade ground flat across) and a much lighter cut. Cut longways now, and alternate with lengthwise diagonal strokes, until you are removing a shaving the lenght of the stroke in any direction you go (plane with the grain, of course). The top is then "tried and true" (thats why it's called a try plane). Keep checking with the sticks. Any tearouts can now be addressed with a smoothing plane, set very fine. Finish by scraping and sanding if it's a hardwood, or go right to sanding if softwood. By all means finish the bottom when you finish the top, even if it's hard to get to. Don't forget to thoroughly check your finish for alcohol resistance after it's on the bartop! ;-))
Regards,
Ray
Thanks for the info Ray,
I don't own all of these planes yet but maybe it gives me a reason to buy them. Can you briefly desribe what winding sticks are? And when you say "Be aware of the placement of any fasteners you might get into" are you referring to any nails, screws, ect that are attaching the slab to the bar? Also, should I plane the full surface so that when I varnish it everything will be even? It may take a while to get the surface flat but I think it should be a very satisfying job when I am through. Can you recommend a good varnish I should use when complete? Thanks for the info...
Regards,
Buzzsaw
Buzz,
Winding sticks are simply a pair of parallel-sided straightedges that you lay across the width of your board, one near each end. Back off as far as you can, and sight across the top edges of the sticks, lining up their edges. If they are parallel to one another, fine. If not, the sticks willl show you where to remove more wood to remove the twist, or wind (the "high" corners in other words). You can also use them across the feet of an upside-down case piece to make sure the feet are level. I most often use a pair of carpenter's framing squares. Just let the other arm of the square hang down over the edge of what you're checking.
Re: the fasteners, yes that's what I meant. You don't want to shove that freshly sharpened plane across the point of a screw :-((
I'd aim to expose fresh wood across the whole top, to assure an even color when you apply your finish. As far as what finish to use...for a glossy finish, probably something like Behlen's table top varnish will work. Or a polyurethane, tho I hate rubbing out a poly finish. Could use an oil like Minwax antique oil, or tung oil for a lower luster, but more maintenance.
Cheers,
Ray
Thanks for the informative post. I may make this a Spring project as I have to accumulate all of the appropriate planes. I am reconditioning one I bought on eBay and I purchased another recently. What a great project to use them on. I have so many projects now and I have a real job that I have to be at from 7-5 every day. I wish I had more time... Thanks again...Regards,
Buzzsaw
You said it was Bowed
Now this is my thinking see If it makes sense-
Wetting Wood Expands - the cells soak up the moisture right. So If you took some wood soaked one side and kept the other side dry what will happen?
The wet side will expand cells getting bigger pushing out the dry side will not expand trying to keep the wood from expanding - Right?
What will happen? What's happening to your Bar Top? Do you think the top side is getting a little to much Wine?
I would let it dry out real good see what happens it may move back
If you know it is dry 6-8 % moisture I bet it is just screwed on -
Might take it off take it to a Cabinet Shop and run it thru the Big Wide Belt Sander it will be nice and flat I would sand the top side by hand after the Wide Belt " the tracking on the head keeps the paper moving back and forth on the sander as the stock passes thru the sander it makes sand scratches like waves across the grain they are easy to sand out"
Sand it flat and put a good Bar Top Varnish Finish on it. Do the bottom sides & ends .
Ron
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