Sliding Bevels/Bevel Gauges – What size?
DanielBottari
| Posted in New To Woodworking on
Hi all,
Looking to get all the essential handtools in the coming months.
Looking at a fairly inexpensive sliding bevel with the locking mechnism at the base – I’ve read this is better for not getting in the way.
Just wondering if I could get some opinions on whether to buy the 8 inch version (linked below) or the 10 inch version. Not much size difference really but wondering if there would be any reason to buy one over the other (or if a smaller sliding bevel than these sizes would actually be preferable).
Shinwa Stainless Steel Sliding Bevel SB-8 8 Inch (workshopheaven.com)
Replies
You need to ask yourself what you see yourself using it for. If it's for dovetail layout the 8" is fine. If on the other hand you see yourself using it to transfer or layout angles on slightly wider boards the 10" may be better.
Personally I don't see it as an essential tool. Once upon a time it may have been but today there are better options IMO for almost everything it does. A top notch 12" try square, a quality combination square, a 45°angle square, a quality dovetail layout tool, etc would all be a higher priority for me, but I don't know what you already have.
Thanks for your reply. Only thinking of using it for dovetails in the immediate future. But I was thinking that if the extra 2 inches could be handy for other things in the future, AND the 10" had no disadvantages over the 8", then it might be a better investment.
Thanks, I was basing it off a couple of FW essential handtool articles I read (though these were from 2010 and 2015), and an evening course where we used them for making dovetails.
Would a dovetail layout tool be better for dovetails in your opinion?
I have a 6 inch combination square (purchased so I could practice joints at home - I have been using larger squares at the community shed I go to).
Are there advantages to having both the try square and the combination square? I had thought a purchasing a 12" combination square might sufficient as I could both use the full length and adjust as needed. And use the 6" for smaller work like measuring joints.
Is this what you mean by a 45 degree angle square?
https://workshopheaven.com/kinex-engineers-steel-draughting-square-250mm-45-degree/
Cheers.
Many woodworkers get by with a top shelf 12" combination square and I do use my Starret frequently but mostly for measuring fixed distances from an edge. When I want to check square I always reach for my 12" try square. I am of the belief that a fixed blade is always going to be more accurate than a movable one, but if given the option of a second rate try square and a second rate combination square I would say I would prefer to go with only a first rate combination square and forego the try square for now. Quality over quantity has always been my motto. I have never regretted buying a quality tool, but almost everytime I went against my father's advice and bought second rate I usually end up spending more when I replace it with a better tool.
A 45° square is simply a try square dedicated to 45° angles a luxury for sure but the miter is one of the most cut angles you will cut so I use it frequently, but again a quality combo square can surfice for now if money is tight.
As for the dovetail layout tool, yes I feel a tool that is fixed at an exact angle will be more accurate than anything that moves and must be set everytime you use it. Plus reliable dovetail tools are relatively inexpensive possibly freeing more money for other tools or higher quality ones.
I have the luxury of having a complete set of the original American made Bridge City layout tools, the Rosewood and Brass not what is being made under their name in China today but I acquired these over years and was able to justify them as a business expense, so I admit to be a bit jaded and spoiled. The important thing is to have layout tools that you have complete faith and trust in.
I will say no one person has all the answers and my tools preferences suit my method of working, yours may be different and your tool needs may be different.
'I am of the belief that a fixed blade is always going to be more accurate than a movable one'
Ah, that does makes good sense. I may well get a quality 12" try square when i have a little more money to spare, alongside a quality 12" combi square.
Currently looking at an engineers squares (4-6) inches - I just need to spend around £40 to bump my shopping cart over £100 with the scary sharp stuff to get free delivery, which otherwise is quite over priced.
So working out a good item to purchase. I'm thinking a 4-6 inch engineers square might be good for marking out joinery and checking square on smaller stock. Other possibilities from that site are some good quality rules or calipers. I'll also look int dovetail markers too.
Those Bridge City layout tools sound lovely.
Being new to the hobby, you won't be familiar with Bridge City but once upon a time they were as good as you could get, unfortunately they became quite popular with collectors so the prices for used ones can be a little high but I have found some great deals on eBay for working models, maybe without the boxes and documentation that the collectors want. Of course I can only speak of my side of the Atlantic I don't know how much of a presence they ever had on your side.
I have both the 8" and 10" Shinwa sliding bevels. I almost always use the 8". Most of my work is typical furniture pieces. I don't use it that often but as a hand tool woodworker, I think you need one.
That's helpful to know that the 8" has been the general go-to, thank you.
Would you use them for dovetails, or has it been for different tasks?
The sliding bevel (either size) is a nice tool, but would not be my first choice among the other tools mentioned above. First get a good tri-square and some good metal rulers; 6" and 12". Check out PEC (Precision Engineering Co. I think). They sell real nice squares and rulers for reasonable prices. Then, I would buy the 8" bevel first and then the 10" later if needed.
Thanks for the essential tool recommedations and brand suggestion, that's really helpful. Would you choose a tri-square over a combi-square?
I think tri-square and combination square are interchangeable terms.
I think you need one of those, but I also have a double square that is my go-to. I prefer it mainly because it is less bulky and easier to handle.
A bevel gauge is useful from time to time albeit often supplanted by other angle measuring/setting tools such as the combination square, engineers square, dovetail marking saddle and so forth. But sometimes you want to set and mark or measure something other than the built-in angles of those dedicated tools, so a bevel gauge comes into its own.
As others say, you want a size that'll suit the work you do. Both the Shinwa 8" & 10" you mention will probably be good for standard furniture sizes. If you make smaller items such as small boxes that aren't entirely rectilinear, a smaller bevel gauge (say 3" - 4" long) can also be useful, as balancing the larger ones on small work pieces can be awkward.
One thing you might also consider, if you do get and use a bevel gauge, is a means to set it, or measure its angle taken from a workpiece, very accurately. The metal jig made by Veritas is a very good option for doing that. It can be used to both measure and set a bevel gauge angle.
https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/bevels?lvbrand=Veritas
Lataxe
Thanks Lataxe,
Really helpful again to have such recommendation so I can build a list of the measuring tools that are most important (its very helpful to see a lot of overlap in responses so far too).
Curious as to which size/s of engineer square you think would be used most for joinary/other common tasks? I've been looking at these:
https://workshopheaven.com/moore-wright-400-series-bs939-engineers-square/
Thanks for the direct advice on the sizes of sliding bevels, and Vertas jig for measuring the angle. Ill keep that advice in mind if I do get one, although I am being swayed towards the other tools being mentioned instead, at least in building my initial tool kit.
I have multiple bevel gauges in various forms. A set of vintage Stanleys in 6 and 10 inches, 2 cheaper plastic 8", a Wixey digital, and a really handy one by Skill Tech:
https://www.upcitemdb.com/upc/46609027918
I have a magnetic digital "angle block" (also Wixey) to set the table saw or bandsaw to a measured angle.
When you start working with angles there is always another angle coming and re-setting a single gauge is what will lead you to have more than one. A digital gauge is most helpful in "doing the math" for the second angle and to set up another gauge.
If you are just planning for dovetails you can do better than a bevel gauge. As much as you lock them down they can be bumped out of alignment because they are overlong for the task. I am of course biased towards my own product which eliminates the transfer from pins to tails or vice-versa:
http://www.tailspintools.com
Any tool meant just for dovetails that wraps around the edge of a board to give you marks on 2 faces is going to be more accurate than working with a bevel gauge.
A set of engineer's squares in sizes from 2 to 8 inches get constant use in my shop.
Thanks for the advice re: wokring with angles and a device for calculating them.
I'll check out your tool for marking dovetails.
Could I ask which engineer square you use most often and the types of tasks you use it for? Considing buying one for the time being.
I wouldn't use a sliding bevel for dovetail layout. The dedicated markers are much better. They mark the slope and the 90 at the same time. And the slope is the same every time, which helps with muscle memory.
I've used a sliding bevel mostly for chairs. And I find the 4" ones much better. The longer legs tend to get in the way.
I find a bevel gauge very handy. I have 4 or 5, but really need only one. Unless you plan to do a lot of carpentry, the 8" shinwa will be all you will ever need, tho not necessarily all you will ever want.
Here would be my order of buying:
12" combination square (if you do any turning, get the center finding head with it; I also have the protractor head with mine). A good quality one will be accurate.
Bevel gauge, as it does things that other tools can't.
6" try square, as it is what I use the most, tho I could get by with just the combination square.
Altho I don't have one, a dovetail marking tool would be next.
I also depend on a 6" metal rule marked out in 32nds and 64ths, and a high quality 1/2" wide by 12' long tape measure. Make sure it reads accurately for both inside and outside measurements.
After that, it is more about what is convenient, or what you find cheap at a flea market or shed sale. I like my little 4" combination square a lot, but lived without it for a long time. I find a basic good quality vernier caliper to also be handy (I'm not that wrapped up in digital measuring tools.)
Thanks very much, that's really helpful to see the order in which they would have priority.
Could I ask what tasks you use the 6" try square for, and why its preferable (although not necessary) to the combi-square?
For the OP, who lives in the UK, I'll just mention that the Axminster combination square, although inexpensive compared to Starrets and the like, is surprisingly good, especially for 20 quids. It doesn't have the refinement of better combination squares but its accurate and well-made.
https://www.axminstertools.com/axminster-workshop-combination-square-metric-300mm-103866?queryID=fa7b1b455f691953b76b86a6d8fa0d63
You can also buy separate rulers of 6" and 24" that go in the body, as well as the standard 12". I find that I use all three rulers, for various tasks involving a wide range of workpiece sizes. When not in the square's body, they're also decent use-alone rulers.
Thanks very much for the recommendation. I'll check it out. Thinking about saving for a Starett or similar quality for a long-term high quality investment but I'll see.