Hi All,
I do woodworking stricktly as a hobby. I have a small shop in my basement. Right now I turn on a box fan and open the bulkhead to control dust. It dosen’t do much. The saw dust from TS and planer isn’t too bad but what a mess comes from sanding. After each project I spend a day cleaning up.
Is there any small inexpensive and effective method to control dust?
Thanks, Len
Replies
Leonardo,
How about using hand planes instead of sanding?
You would get nice shavings instead of a pile of dust, a much nicer surface ready for finishing and a lot less noise.
Eric
Hi Eric,
Thanks for the response. You answered my question with a question. Are you a politician? Just kidding. I have wanted to start using hand planes, I even did a search here. Information overload! I have a 1950 era Stanley#4 (my father's) with a BIG nick in the blade. I only kept it for sentimental reasons. What would you suggest for a true beginner? Where to start? What to read?
Thanks again, Len
Why not sharpen your Dad's plane? You'll have sentimental attachment to it every time you use it!
Oops! It looks like I jumped a bit late. But as sarge..jt said, just get to it. You won't regret it. The more I do with hand tools, the less I want more power tools. Might be different for others, but then each has their own love affairs
Edited 11/10/2003 11:53:20 PM ET by SailingRandy
Leonardo,
I'm no expert (and no politician). I am very much a beginner myself, but Leonard Lee has a very good book on sharpening published by Taunton. That should help you take care of the nick in your blade. I have been studying fine woodworking for about a year now at the Rosewood studio in Almonte, Ontario, Canada. I have learned a lot from them and if you have the chance to visit them I strongly recommend their programs.
Good luck.
Eric
Len,
Great advice on the handplane. Lots of info out there about sharpening, which should absolutely be your first learning curve.
Sometimes, before you hone, you've got to grind (as in your case with the knicked blade). Lots of bad results possible here; blued steel etc. Also lots of very expensive equipment available (Tormec, etc.). I can recommend first hand the very low-tech hand grinder that James Krenov mentioned in his early book (was either "Cabinetmaker's Notebook" or "Fine Art of Cabinetmaking", I can't remember which; browse both!). It's a hand grinder with the correct wheel for tool sharpening. Has a shop made (fairly easy), wooden slide set up for grinding chisels and plane irons. It makes the job much easier and less tense! Acquiring the grinder and building the accompanying device was the single most important and significant thing I ever did to improve my workmanship and attitude. It opened the door to hand tool work and as others have often stated, "it's a love affair after that".
It's time well spent at the very least!
Enjoy!
Mack
Len, when you need to sand there are a couple things that would help out. (I'm assuming here you're talking about either a random orbit sander or other power sander). A down-draft sanding table, vacuum pick-up and a bench-top air filter. None of these, however, is going to do a job adequate to protect your lungs over a long period of time. You need to work with a respirator at least. An air cleaner that changes the air in your shop area several time an hour is probably what you should have.
There are several plans "out there" for a down-draft sanding tables. Roughly, it consists of a perforated top over a hollow box that has a vacuum hooked up to it.
You can buy a bench-top air cleaner, or make one out of a box fan and furnace filters.
It sounds like your sander doesn't have a vacuum pick-up? That would help alot. What type of equipment are you using?
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 11/7/2003 11:23:14 AM ET by forestgirl
Hi FG,
Your right on, I'm talking about a couple of ROS and a 3x21 belt sander. They all have dust bags that catch a lot but I think they let just as much escape.
I use a dust mask when sanding. Just one of those paper kind that fit over mouth and nose. I thought this was adequate protection. You really think I need a respirator?
Thanks for the response, Len
Hi Len, oh how I love being "right on." LOL. OK, you'll notice a huge difference if you hook your sander up directly to a small shop vacuum, skipping the little bag altogether.
The paper dust masks really aren't very effective. There is so much leakage around the edges. The dust that does you the most harm is that which you can barely see, or maybe even not see. If you're sanding for more than a few minutes at a time, and you're under 70 year old and would like to get to that age without respiratory problems, some type of full-face filter would be a good idea. After you finish sanding, that fine, fine dust stays suspended in the air for a very long time. That's where the air cleaner's role comes in to save the day.
Do I have one? Nope! No $$, so I do most of my sanding outside. If I'm using an RO sander, I hook the vac up directly. If I'm using my disc/belt combination sander (48" belt usually), I rig up the big shop vac to collect on the down-wind end of the belt. Usually use a full-face respirator for these tasks if I'm inside the shop, and when I get done I leave for awhile.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Thanks to ALL for the responses. I have a better understanding of what I need.
Len
Not necessarily cheap but effective is to get a good vac that filters down to 1 ëin. I have a Fein Turbo II. Waps, Festool, Bosch and the top of the line PC are all good with the right accessory filter. The tool triggered option is a real plus. Next pull the canisters or bags off your sanders and put them away for good. With a few turns of duct tape I've been able to adapt all of my sanders to accept the rubber hose fitting that was supplied from Fein. If you need to upgrade your sanders start with a good 5" 8 hole RO. Almost dustless with the vac pulling. The Fein keeps up very well with even my 4 x 24 Bosch belt sander. For back-up get a shop air cleaner, I have the Jet. A home built air cleaner or down-draft table using just furnace filters is a waste of time, they won't filter down to 1 ëin and if they could they'd plug up right away. You could order the replacement bag filters and pre-filters from Jet or JDS and build your own box. Of course you wouldn't probably have 3-speeds, remote control and timer functions, but those are just extras.
John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne
Hi John,
Sounds like your response addresses the effective part of my question. I didn't understand the measurment. Is that the abreviation for 1 micron? I will look into your suggestions further (price, size, etc).
Thanks, Len
Yes it's micronsJohn O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne
Len
I was going to build a down-draft table as FG metnioned, but discovered what Elco mentioned. A direct small vac hook-up to the ROS sander eliminates about 85% of the dust. I have also gotten back to hand planes and those fine shavings are pretty dust free.
I don't know where you are, but when the weather is good you could set up a portable saw-horse table outside when sanding. Here in Atlanta, that is a plus about 8 months a year.
Good luck and for sure get a dust mask...
sarge..jt
Hello Sarge,
You have the advantage of previous experience with hand tools. I ask you the same questions I asked Eric above.
I live in Massachusetts where we get some fine days sometimes. If its not raining or snowing or too cold I do take my sanding outside.
What type of mask do you recomend? FG mentioned a respirator?
Thanks, Len
Len
I use the Dustfoe (?) from Highland Hardware as far as a dust mask goes. There are others if you look in some of the catalogs for WW. They seem to come up with better models each day.
Where do you start with hand planes? At the beginning. I would get the "Hand Plane Book by Garrett Wade. Another book that gets straight to technique is "Hand-Plane Basics" by Sam Allen. It is out of print, but I was able to read it as my local library has it.
You've got your dad's #4 smoother. That's the plane you start with as you already have it. Study the design and relate it to what you read in the books. Learn to sharpen the iron, true the sole, heel and toe. Check the frog and throat for mate to the cap iron and iron (blade). You will discover just how simple the plane is when you understand how and what makes it work. If you have questions, don't be afraid to ask. They will be the same mysterious questions we all have asked at some point. That's how you learn.
Once you get her up and running, use it on scrap to get the feel. When the plane is right you will hear the "whish" of your first smooth pass. A thin shaving will curl up from the throat and roll off to the side. You take more passes and the pile of shaving start to build. The stock is flat at last, but you don't won't to stop. You understand at this point why all the effort went into learning to use that plane. It's a love affair from that day forward.
Regards...
sarge..jt
TO all-
Can you use the new Canister style dust collector to clean the air? Basically what I was thinking is just setting up an opening at about shoulder level and turn it on. This would then circulate the air through the 1 micron canister filter.
Would this be effective? If not, will a standalone air cleaner work to take the most dangerous particles out of the air? I don't mind shop vacing up the big sawdust but the little stuff gets everywhere and kills me...
Derek
I'm no expert on air systems, but the element on top you refer to is where the air that is pulled into the system comes out filtered. Meaning the air coming through the inlet and impellor swirls inside and the large dust and particles drop in the first stage. The remaining small particles are caught inside the top filter as the cleaned air passes back out throught it and re-circulates into the shop.
I'm just guessing as I have no evidence to back it up, but I would think that placing the inlet hose at a random shoulder height would not make a major difference in the cleanliness of the air in general. It would be better used to attach to the direct source of the dust to get most. What it doesn't trap could be better captured with the other type air-cleaner. They both are designed to preform a certain function.
Does a stand-alone unit make a difference? I have a 1 HP Penn State on a mobile base I roll and attach to one tool at a time. You must replace any .020 micron bag that comes with a unit with a .005 or less in felt. The woven cloth bags are virtually useless to capture small microns. The Penn State came with the felt bag without having to up-grade. I added a two stage separator that catched the big stuff before it hits the actual felt bags. Does it make a difference? About the same difference between "night and day"...
Regards...
sarge..jt
Is the penn state one a dust collector or one of them overhead box thingies whose name is escaping me at the moment?
My big concern is I have a really small shop (about 8x9) and a contractors saw. Will a dust collector attached to the saw really get the little stuff? I'm not really concerned with the sawdust on the floor but the stuff in my lungs doesn't really make me feel comfortable.
THe canister looks like it basically replaces the bag at the top of most dust collectors and (I thought I read) that it filters to 1 micron whereas bags are truly like 10 microns. Did I misread that badly?
Derek
The Penn State is a DC. It comes with the felt bags that are rated .2 micron. Most DC's come with woven cloth rated at .20 or .30 micron. Cloth doesn't get it. If you look at industrial systems you will find felt.
The pleated cannisters replaces the top felt bag. The pleats actually creat more space to collect fine particles which creates more cfm. (Suction) The pleats are made of ployester which is even a more efficient filter than felt.
The picture you see that has the garbage can on my and the pic Scott posted is a home-spun dust separator. The DC we both have is called single stage. By adding the can it allows the dust to come through the can first. The heavier saw-dust and chips drop to the bottom of the can. (Stage 1) Everything else goes on into the main DC where it swirls around and the finer dust falls to the bottom of the bottom felt bag. The cleaned air is forced out the top bag. (Stage 2) By the big stuff never making the DC, you have to empty the felt bags less often and the emptier they are the more cfm is created. Also it helps eliminate big chips from hitting the impellor and bending a fin on that.
FG hit it on the head. If your main concern is small dust, get the over-head air filter first. The problem with not having both is that without the regular DC, there is more small dust floating around. This makes the job of the air cleaner more complex to deal with that much quanity.
Dual sword. If budget is a concern I agree with FG, hook up a decent system with the shop vac and get the air filter. Latter, you can add a DC as your budget allows and the need becomes obvious to you.
Regards...
sarge..jt
Derek, the answer is "No." Look at the difference in area between the intake of a dust collector (say, a 4"D hose) and the intake of an air cleaner. That alone should tell you substitution ain't gonna work.
I will disagree with an earlier poster and maintain that the air cleaner doesn't belong lower than ceiling height, unless your ceiling is 15' high. Those lighter particles tend to float pretty high up, especially in a warm room I'd expect, and IMO you want the air cleaner to pull them up above your nose-height and clean them out of the air.
If I'm reading between the lines correctly, your budget isn't allowing you to buy both a dust collect and an air cleaner. If that's true, then you could use your big shop vac the best you can to collect tool-specific dust and get an air cleaner to pull out the most dangerous (small) dust. Then save up for a DC.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
You got it FG...well budget and space. I am really mostly concerned with getting too much crap in my lungs, not getting the floor clean.
Thanks for your advice!
I just have to post this link again. This is the leaf-blower-turned-dust-collector at Al Amaral's site. Very clever, looks quite useful and may be a help for those with limited budgets! http://members.aol.com/Alamaral/DC.htmlforestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Leonardo I upgraded my dust collector to do a better job. I added a cheap plastic garbage can and made a round lid for it out of plywood and fastened a 4" pipe for my in take and outlet. I then added another sheet of ply wood to the base of the DC to allow me to sit the garbage can on. It works great and reduces the times I clear out my bag.
Scott C. Frankland
"This all could have been prevented if their parents had just used birth control"
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled