Hi!
I have been spending so much time over at OTF gardening that I have been neglecting a few refinishing and other DIY jobs. Actually, I have been a little shy about visiting here asking for help, but here goes:
(1) I have a very old, round, pedestal traditional style mahogany table with a hidden drawer, four legs (with brass toes). It is 22″ w X 28″h and of solid wood! It is actually rather simple in design, but does have two rounded edges, one at the top of the apron and another at the bottom, both with grooves beneath (pardon me, but I do not know the proper wood-working lingo). The finish on the sides and the legs was in such good shape I decided about seven years ago to strip and sand the finish off the top only. So the top is ready to finish, the sides have the original opaque finish. My plan was to attempt to match or reconstruct a finish on the top of the table similar to that of the original finish left alone elsewhere on the piece. This was to save time and work. Well, with excuse after excuse, and many delays into doing the job, now I am wondering, years later, How in the world am I going to do this? (refinish the top to match the rest of the table). I have refinished a few pieces over time and they look wonderful and professional. However, to reproduce and match an old-looking finish on the rest of the table, am I asking for failure? It is easy to look back–I wish I had removed all, or none, of the finish then, so now I could just plunge in (now that I have the refinishing urge and need for the table without a cloth on it).
What do you think (“besides, there goes $5,000”)? Is it possible, without a lifetime commitment, to have a what looks like an old thick, very dark finish that matches an existing finish? Even if I strip all of the old finish off the rest of the table, I will need to make an opaque finish because looking closely at the apron, I can see it has be pieced. That I have never done.
(2) I also have a very old oval dressing table mirror frame that I had previously refinished, but when I put it together it didn’t look right. I haven’t done anything with the frame because I was stuck. The seams on the frame pieces showed through.It is time to conquer this problem, too. I need a finish to unify the frame–perhaps the same finish I need for the table above. Also, what do I use to hold the pieces together? It has dowels, but the mirror is very heavy and the frame would not stay together if hung on the wall. I do not believe I should glue it together.
Eroomgardener
edited to clarify
Edited 8/14/2003 5:44:54 PM ET by eroomgardener
Replies
Wow, that was a long question with a lot of information.
Color matching is something learned over time. Without many years of experience you will probably need help from someone who can watch you during the different steps required. Without seeing the piece - I'm guessing a dark stain means oil based, like in wiping stain. It may have been varnished over with a color added to the varnish - called a toner - I believe minwax makes toners or what you can call colored finishes. The finish probably darkened over time on its own as well.
I always like to refinish an entire piece. Matching is easier. Also paint remover can drip down when striping just a top. You probably want to consider a low luster finish, semi gloss. It will help with the muddy values you're looking for.
In regard to how to hold things together? How was it originally together? Dowels are OK - maybe screws, - hard to say without seeing it.
Hope this will help you,
Regards,
SA
SA,
Thanks for your help.
(1) Table. I may not have explained things clearly enough about my table, so I went back and edited that part of my question. In any case, it sounds like you suggest I strip the rest of the table, then use an oil based stain followed properly with a toner. That is probably what I will have to do, but I was hoping to avoid the work. BTW, amazingly, the sides of the table are perfect (for an old piece, anyway); it is fortunate that there is no sign of stripper having removed any of finish on the sides or anywhere else.
(2) Mirror frame. My second group questions is about an old mahogany frame (about 28" wide) that holds a heavy mirror. The frame is composed of several sections that fit together with dowels on the sides. The dowels do not hold firmly, but the sections are flush. I didn't think I should glue the dowels for then if I ever needed to take the frame apart I wouldn't be able to separate them without damaging the frame and ripping out the dowels. a. Should I use those curvy metal things to hold the frame securely together? Or is there a better way?
I will have to redo the finish on the frame also (I need do do both the table, above, and the mirror frame with the same finish). When looking at the front side of the mirror frame, the seams of the joined pieces are very obvious, so I need a way to hide them, or render them inconspicuous. When I bought the frame it originally had a very thick opaque finish, and I didn't know it was pieced--I thought it was one solid frame. My question about the finish is b. How do I camouflage the seams of the frame and have the frame appear as if it were a solid piece and still see at least some of the grain? It is probably impossible.
Next, when the frame is placed face down, the mirror just sits in a recessed area of the frame. Nothing is holding it. c. What do I do to hold and support the mirror inside of the frame? Now that I am asking, I just figured out that I have to have my DH cut me out an oval template a bit larger than the mirror. I am not sure how to secure the new backing to the frame though.
Thanks for reading through all of this and for helping me.
Eroomgardener
Edited 8/14/2003 5:39:48 PM ET by eroomgardener
Hello Eroomgardener,
First - it isn't written in stone that the entire piece should be stripped, but color matching will be easier. If you try to color match existing surfaces - go slow, build to the color using stains and toners. You'll get there. Now - consider that even though you're not stripping the entire piece - the existing finish may look good but maybe it's not doing its job. A finish can look good but be brittle. Just another point to consider in deciding whether to redo the whole piece.
Regarding the mirror frame - If the original mirror is too heavy - it's probably the old thick plate glass. Possibly replace it with a new thinner mirror and save the original if you ever decide to put it back.
Mending plates will help secure things. Pre-drill for the screws so as not to split any woodwork. Again, I'm not looking at the piece so maybe there is a better suggestion for holding the frame together.
As for the finish and not seeing the seams? I'm not fully understanding what is needed, but for the sake of an answer - if I was trying to hide something in the woodwork surface I might try to spray on a background color to match what exists and glaze/grain lightly enough to hide the defect without masking the wood below completely.
Regards,
SA
Hi, SA,
You brought up a very good point, actually, lots of invaluable points. Looking closer at the old finish I see what you mean. The apron and legs have a slight textural look, that may indeed be brittleness (tiny vertical lines breaking up the finish). The more I think about all of this the more I am leaning toward the "stripping the whole thing" method. It may be less effort in the long run. If I go the partial route, the top will most likely look fantastic and smooth and I will want the rest of it to look as good. I will probably use the same method as I would have if I were matching as I would really like it to have an old time, quality look.
It may be better if I do the mirror frame first to see how well I can achieve the effect I want. I had the mirror re-silvered many years ago. It is very nice old glass and has an attractive beveled edge. Yes, you are right; it is very heavy. If things are not working out I will replace it with a lighter weight one (I never would have thought of that, actually) and perhaps figure out how to hang the old mirror somewhere else without a frame. I have seen that shown in popular catalogs and magazines. The wood frame is very heavy and strong, or will be after I secure the sections with mending plates as you suggested. I won't be lazy; I will definitely take the time to pre-drill. Also, the idea of spraying with a background color may work just fine. As I recall, the stain I used before was no longer absorbing. I can spray the seams and blend into the other area.
Thank you very much for your guidance. I guess it is time to get started.
Regards,
Eroomgardener
Edited 8/15/2003 7:32:09 PM ET by eroomgardener
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