I need to find instructions for building a smoker for oak to make mission furniture , I believe it is called the Stickley method.
I am a new wood worker, retired and have time and space.
Also building my shop and have installed floor heat, water not elec, so has anyone had problems with their floor heat?
Thankyou
Replies
Curious why you want to smoke the wood. I've had good success with Jeff Jewitt's approach using analine dye then pigment stain.
http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/htdocs/mission_oak.htm
It's quite easy, safe and relatively inexpensive.
Mark
You can see a piece I did this way at this link:http://www.pbase.com/durrenm/wood_shop_projects
I wanted to fume(smoke) as I understood that was the way it was done and I need to start somewhere. I have plenty of space and no neighbors and I am new to wood working. I have a few pieces of A&C furniture and wanted to match it.
I realize there are different ways to do things but this is what I want to do. being retired (over 60) I just don't have the time to try everything and end up with a finished product that matches what I have.
Like I said I've got to start somewhere.
Thankyou
I looked into the fuming and tried it out but met with limited success. There are others here who have been successful with it. After my failed attempt, I went to Jewitt's approach which worked nicely.I'm not sure why my fuming failed. The Ammonia may not have been high enough concentration. The oak I used was 30+ years (recovered from an old building) that may have had something to do with the tannins not reacting....???MarkVisit my woodworking blog Dust Maker
A recent issue of Woodworking magazine had a review of different mission style finishes, and they rated a one-step finish (General I think "Java") as being their favourite accresoo the board.I don't have access to it here but will post it from home.The older I get, the better I was....
Mark, what matters is the concentration of ammonia gas in the fuming chamber, not the concentration in the aqueous solution. If you try to fume in a larger chamber, you'll need more ammonia and more time. Tell us how you set up your fuming attempt and maybe we can figure it out.In general, the effect is a function of three variables: time, ammonia gas concentration, and temperature. It is also a function of the amount of tannins in the wood. Sapwood will not react at all, whereas old heartwood will get very dark. I can't think how the age of the lumber would have anything to do with it - ammonia fuming is essentially a rapid aging process.
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein
http://www.albionworks.net
I put a tray of 10% ammonia (industrial strenght from the Hardware Store) in the bottom of a 5 gallon bucket. Put a screen rack on top of that then I put 8 2" by 2" pieces of white oak on the rack. I covered the bucket so no fumes could escape.Each day I held my breath and took one piece out. The difference between the lightest and darkest pieces were about the diff between the palm of my hand and the lightly tanned back of my hand after 8 days of fuming... The color did change but it was quite subtle. I have no way of knowing if the wood was sapwood or heart wood but I have to assume it was heart wood. It came from some rather large planks. The wood previously surrounded a stage in a 30 year old school that was torn down. The wood was finished on one side (but I planed that off before the test. MarkVisit my woodworking blog Dust Maker
That's very strange. White oak turned a dark greenish-grey in less than a day when I did a very similar test... (It doesn't turn that beautiful rich dark brown until you put finish on it.) Did you add more ammonia each time you opened the bucket? Grasping at straws here... are you sure it was white oak?"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein
http://www.albionworks.net
No I didn't add more stuff because there was still liquid in the tray.Re the white oak. Maybe not but I doubt it. Look at the picture of my table and you tell me :-)I had known samples of red oak to compare to...Smelled different, cut different, looked different...http://www.pbase.com/durrenm/wood_shop_projectsMarkVisit my woodworking blog Dust Maker
Can't say exactly but temperature is a minor factor. We do a lot of ammonia fuming of large pieces such as timbers and our fumng chamber is 32' long and kept outdoors. Consequently we fume in the New England winter and don't really notice a temperature issue. Also tannic acid powder can be mixed with water and brushed on to enhance the effect. We use anyhydrous ammonia in a 100 lb tank. Also the ammonia will go through some finishes. See George Franks book where he fumed a bank to darken the color of the woodwork after installation. I'm pretty sure it was his first book. It's the concentration of ammonia that makes the difference. Household ammonia will work but takes longer. Humidity seems to play more a factor than temperature. Higher humidity seems to speed up ther process a bit.
Temperature seems to affect the rate at which the ammonia gas comes out of solution. In my tests, I got faster results when the fuming chamber (basically a visqueen tent) was in the sun. Since you are using anhydrous, that may not be a factor for you. Not many amateurs are going to go that route - in fact, I'm somewhat surprised to find a commercial shop using it, with all the hazmat hoops you have to jump through.Concentration also affects the rate of gas evolution - that's why the industrial-strength (26%) outperforms the household (5% - 10%). It takes longer to build up the ammonia-rich atmosphere. Your setup undoubtedly removes that whole factor, since you are filling the chamber with ammonia right off.That George Frank article was printed in an old FWW, and is reprinted in Techniques 3. I've often wondered what finish was used in that bank.
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein
http://www.albionworks.net
I also tried and really liked the effect of fuming the White Oak. I built a Queen bed from the Quartersawn Oak in the Stickley style and only made one mistake, not reading every last post on the process. I didn't notice the detail about the sapwood, it does not react to the ammonia and stays very blond. The other thing that I found interesting was that it wasn't until I put an oil finish or even wax on the fumed wood that the effect was so attractive. The images attached show the bed and a test piece of wood that I fumed for 26 hours in a plastic tent in my shop. I used the 26% stuff. Dave Graf
Here is the second image that was supposed to upload.Dave Graf
Actually no hoops to jump through at all. I call up my local gas supplier and they deliver it. Simple as that. Farmers also use it as a fertilizer. Before that we were using the spent ammomia from blue print machines which we get for free. We found using a fish tank bubbler helps get the ammonia circulating in the atmosphere quicker. The tannic acid treatment makes it darken quicker.
We've had several threads on ammonia fuming; use the search function and browse through some. I think the last big one started with message #22281.1Some people say you have to be smoking something to do this... but I've done it and got excellent results, with ordinary household ammonia. YMMV."Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein
http://www.albionworks.net
What you're referring to is fuming the piece with ammonia. While this produces a wonderful, authentic finish if done properly, it's a process that can be difficult to set up and very dangerous if not done right. If you search the archives for ammonia or fume ammonia or fuming ammonia you'll find two or three pretty long threads. You could do a Google search on the same. Here's a sample search.
Don't know how much reading you've already done, but keep in mind you'd not be running down to the grocery store for this stuff. To do it the way the originators did you need industrial strength ammonia.
PS: regarding your floor heat questions, that's deserving of a separate thread so it doesn't get lost in the ammonia fumes <grin> These guys love talking about their shops!
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
PPS: Welcome!!!
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled