Replies

1. 
   hammer1 | Sep 15, 2006 12:07am | #1

   Generally, snipe is caused by the bed rollers on the planer being too high. Lunch box planers may not have any adjustability. There can be additional causes. Supporting the work piece, particularly on exit, is also important. Even when everything is set up perfectly, you still can get snipe, not only on a planer but on shapers and router tables, too. I always figure it can happen and leave the stock extra long until milling is done. Most pros don't fret about loosing a few inches of stock to the waste process. There is often a chance that the ends of boards will have to be cut back beyond checks and splits, just don't cut them until after. When it comes to limited and expensive stock, backing up the boards with another piece of lumber, end to end, will help quite a bit. In order to sand out a snipe, you really need to take down the whole board beyond the depth of the snipe. Too much work and prone to looking overworked. Plan ahead for snipe and it probably won't happen, figure your stock too close and it's almost a guarantee. You have to inspect your stock very carefully at different light angles to see faults. It takes practice.

   Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

2. 
   Pondfish | Sep 15, 2006 12:29am | #2

   I find it with either a light touch, using a micrometer to measure the thickness at a couple spots, or holding two boards next to each other (flat sides together).  Snipe is easy to see with the last method.

   I get snipe when the infeed/outfeed table isn't set up correctly.  I've eliminated snipe by building a solid table (1/2" MDF) that goes through the planar.  Just have to remember not to set the knives closer than 1/2" thick...

   Recommending the use of "Hide Signatures" option under "My Preferences" since 2005
3. 
   WillGeorge | Sep 15, 2006 04:44am | #3

   DO not 'look' for it. Eliminate it! Glue a scrap on each end that will take the 'snipe'. yes it is a pain BUT! It works!

4. 
   joinerswork | Sep 15, 2006 04:08pm | #4

   71,

   I've found the most efficient way to get rid of snipe is to go over the boards with a smoothing plane.  When you have taken a shaving off the entire length of the piece, the snipe is planed away.  If you want to sand it off, I'd start with 80 or 100 grit, as 220 is just not aggressive enough to get the job done.  Planer knives bruise (crush) the wood fibers below the cut.  If the knives are dull, and the wood is soft, this bruising can go deeper than you'd imagine.  Then when the stain hits the fibers they swell, and the ripples telegraph thru. Wetting the stock after planing (and before sanding) to swell the bruising may help some, but you must get below the layer of wood that's been crushed. 

   It seems like you have to take a lot of material off, because, to maintain a flat surface, you must take the unsniped stock down level with the snipe, then go far enough below that to get rid of the machine marks there.

   The suggestions for eliminating snipe in the first place are good ones.  Also would add careful support of the outboard end ( witha roller, or just by lifting it a little as it enters/emerges) of the stock as it is going and coming, so the board's weight can't lever the end up into the cutterhead.  Don't know about gluing short blocks end grain to end grain to make a board longer though.  As Moe Howard used to say, "NYAAAAH!" I'd expect them to break loose and raise he11 with the machine.

   Good luck,

   Ray Pine

1. 
   trialnut | Sep 15, 2006 05:48pm | #5

   Just glue some strips on the sides that stick out past the ends, rather than glueing end grain. In effect it makes the board longer and the snipe is in the extensions.The Professional Termite

1. 
   forestgirl | Sep 15, 2006 06:39pm | #7

   I don't understand the need to glue in either case.  I feed stock side-by-side, and end-to-end, never glued anything. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

1. 
   SgianDubh | Sep 15, 2006 08:34pm | #8

   Be careful of feeding stock side by side if your machine doesn't have a sectional feed roller fg. That's one way to get a nasty kickback.

   You'll know if your machine is likely to have a sectional feed roller. It's heavy, light industrial at minimum, lots of cast iron, sits on the floor, can thickness somewhere between about 16" and 20" wide, almost certainly three phase and is capable of tearing off about 3 to 5 mm in one pass of a 10" wide board.

   Single, solid rollers lift up as high as the thickest piece being fed through and force down tight and impart forward momentum to this piece. Thinner stock fed alongside has either limited downward pressure and forward thrust, or no downward pressure and no forward thrust. This means the piece of wood is flapping about on the bed and only requires the operator to inadvertantly lift up the wood on the infeed side slightly for the knives to throw the wood back.

   If it's one of the little benchtop planers you're using these usually don't have either a pressure bar or chipbreaker making kickback even more likely. Granted, if your machining heavy stock, and feeding side by side, kickback of the uncontrolled piece is less likely to be severe (but I wouldn't dismiss it) but small, thin, light stock can kickback particularly viciously.

   Snipe free feeding of stock through thickness planers and other machines I believe is no more than an advertiser's hyperbolic wet dream in the world of industrial woodworking-- the internet has been an excellent means of promulgating the myth of snipe free power woodworking.

   One or two of the solutions offered so far in this thread can help, but they are time consuming, fiddly and cost more in the charge per hour than the cost of the wood for 99% of all the jobs I've ever done. I simply allow about 4" extra in the length and cut it off afterwards. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture

1. 
   forestgirl | Sep 15, 2006 09:03pm | #9

   Thanks, Richard, for the heads-up on possible kick-back.  I will be extra careful.  Generally, this stock is all of the same thickness, and I tend to be pretty easy on the benchtop planer, not taking toooo much off at once.  The side-by-side is something I use when making, say, a frame and thicknessing rather narrow pieces all at once.  For reducing snipe, most often I use the "train" approach.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

2. 
   trialnut | Sep 16, 2006 06:00pm | #13

   FG

   I am really with some of the others in that I most always just allow some extra length. Have only glued strips on a few times. I have tried the end to end method and have never found it to work well. The slight amount of friction the trailing piece offers to the leading piece is easily overcome by the weight of each. If they are short boards it works, however, on short boards snipe is not much of a problem anyway. It is usually the weight of the long  board hanging past the outfeed rollers that causes the trailing end to lift into the cutters that causes the snipe to begin with. Depending on rough end grain friction to overcome this is I think rather optimistic. Lifting the ends as the board is feeding works much better. Boards side by side is a recipe for kickback as well as introducing more possibility of all the pieces not being the same thickness after planing if the cutterhead,the bed, and the rollers are not perfectly parallel.

   I guess it mostly depends on what length stock you mostly work with and what type of planer you have, benchtop or large floor model.   The Professional Termite

5. 
   Rennie | Sep 15, 2006 06:32pm | #6

   It might seem simplistic, and perhaps a bit wasteful, but I've always been told to make sure the stock you're planing is 2 or 3 inches longer than you will need. Then the snipe is not an issue as you will remove it when you square up the ends and cut to length. I still lift the ends lightly as the stock exits the machine to help minimize the snipe.

   This seems much easier than tacking on extra bits here and there.

   Rennie

   A man is a fool if he drinks before he reaches the age of 50, and a fool if he doesn't afterward.
   Frank Lloyd Wright

6. 
   cadiddlehopper | Sep 16, 2006 07:27am | #10

   I see that no one answered your actual question, but I can't either. However, I believe that what you might do is thoroughly dampen the board surface very well with a wet cloth, let it dry, then sand it starting with 100 grit & working up to finer grits. The grain is probably being compressed by the cutter as well as sheared. A good soaking with water where the snipe begins may just swell the compressed fibers. This suggestion carries no guarantees. LOL!!

   Cadiddlehopper

1. 
   SgianDubh | Sep 16, 2006 12:52pm | #11

   cadiddlehopper, that's really not quite true. The original question was, "I need help in identifying when I have removed the snipe from the end of a board."

   There are two answers, both of which have been suggested.

   1. Machine boards longer than you need and cut it off.

   2. Reduce the thickness of the fat bit in the middle between the two sniped ends. This can be done with hand planes, machine sanding or with hand sanding. Of these three options handplaning is often the speediest and surest way, but it's still a lot of work. Machine sanding with thickness sanders suffers the much same fault as machine thicknessers, i.e., snipe, needing additional corrective measures, although a vertical long belt sander can be used too. Lastly, hand sanding is too slow to contemplate if speed of production is of concern.

   Of the solutions offered, cutting the sniped ends off is quickest leaving only the part of the plank that's at the correct thickness for final surface preparation prior to polishing-- usually a bit of handplaning or power sanding plus a bit of scraping and/or final hand sanding depending on the job in hand. Slainte.

    Richard Jones Furniture

1. 
   cadiddlehopper | Sep 16, 2006 04:07pm | #12

   "Anyone know of a sure way to spot this invisible snipe?" was his final question. It has a question mark at the end. Actually someone DID mention methods of doing that, so I apologize. We did talk all around his problem which was probably a good thing. Those things show up on my work occasionally, too, so I like to hear what others do about it. At present, I have it pretty well under control in my shop, thank goodness! There was a very recent thread on the subject of snipe. We shared a lot of misery & methods & warnings. I make an effort to understand the physical principles we use in WWing. I have some more to learn.Cadiddlehopper

7. 
   LD | Sep 17, 2006 02:38am | #14

   I think most fixes have been covered, but I'll add my 2cents.

   1. Make sure the planer blade(s)are sharp. You can get some might nasty snipes if the blade(s) need to be replaced or sharpened.

   2. Try feeding the boards in at a slight angle. Of course the amount of the angle is dependent on the width of the boards, but a slight angle tends to reduce snipe.