Does anyone know of some sources for a good wide selection of useable molding planes. I would like to replace at least some of my noisy router bits with quiet soul satisfying molding planes. Are they still made or do you have to find good antiques?
Thanks.
Replies
Saw some wooden molding planes in the new Japan Wood workers catolog. Not a large selection though.
Troy
Try here.......
http://www.thebestthings.com/molding.htm
Brent
In addition to ebay as another source for antiques, new molding planes, of the highest quality are made by Clark and Williams. They make them in the 18th century pattern. While they show sets of hollows and rounds, they will make anything that you want. Just don't expect it tomorrow, and you do have to pay for what you get. They also make fantastic smooth planes.
They have a website: http://www.planemaker.com
As an alternative, how do you all feel about the Stanley 45 or 55? It's not wood but you also don't have to have a boatload of them. Is the Stanley a good alternative?
Rich
I have a Stanley 45 and for some things it's fine, I use it for beading, grooving and sometimes dadoes. It came with a set of match cutters and a sash profile cutter.
Hollows and rounds were available as accessories for the 45 but required auxilliary bases that clamp to the skates and are now very pricy to buy when you can find them at all.
I don't have any experience with the 55 but it looks even more cumbersome. I'd figure out what kind of prifiles you'd like to cut and look for planes in antique stores or have Clarke & Williams make them (they do beautiful work BTW).
One advantage of buying new is that the molding plane comes ready to go, where if you buy an old molding plane you can plan on some time to get it back to working order. Even if the iron and wedge are original to the plane, you still may have to do some work to match the cutter to the profile if it was poorly worked somewhere along its journey.
I have found that the most useful profiles are hard to find in really good condition. For instance you can get a 1/2-inch or larger beading plane in like new condition fairly easily, but try to find a 1/4-inch sidebeader in really good shape...
I'm toying with the idea of making my own set of hollows and rounds.
David C.
don't mean to hijack the thread, but i am wondering how one would go about making moulding planes. i have seen a few in junk shops, but they always look beyond repair. i'd love to make a few of my own. are there good books, internet sites, etc. that can explain how to make moulding planes?thanks,
david
Some funrniture makers do a lot of the rough cutting, such as for cornices, using the table saw, then finish up with hollow and rounds. Another route is to use plow planes to cut the grooves and then use selected hollow and rounds to finish. That way, you don't have to have a full set of good molders. How do you feel about that? It's a comprimise. What do you think would be a good basic set of hollows and rounds to start off with? - and should I make them, buy them from an antique dealer off the web (sight unseen, taking their word as to quality) or buy new from a manufacturer?
Richard
Oldtimer,
I think that a full set of hollows and rounds, (that is a full half set or even numbered pairs) allows a great deal of flexibility in designing and executing different profiles. As for molding planes, the ones I have are ones I either found and rescued, or needed and sought out.
This weekend at the Woodcraft Store as part of the Connecticut Valley School of Woodworking, Mario Rodriguez is teaching a class on building a hollow or round plane, I can't go...sigh!
Having hollows and rounds and a plow and a Rabbet plane you can make almost any profile, I imagine that 19th century craftsmen used these for general work but when they needed a specific profile often enough, it made sense to get a specialty molding plane.
Clark & Williams sells a half set and I'll likely get those soon enough.
Best Regards,
David C
David:
Thanks for the input. Sigh... seems all of the best schools, sources, etc are in the northeast and I can't make it either. I'm going to check out Clark and Williams and Ron Hock.
Richard
Richard,
My brother bought me a book from Lee valley on making planes by Perch and Lee: http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=45260&cat=1,46096,46107
the explanations are very straight forward. I have made the irons from old heavy machine hacksawblades from a fitting shop, but there is no reason not to buy something suitable.
You probably need to invest a day into a plane like these.
Mine are not works of art yet (have only done two) but one of them works pretty well.
Dave
SteveSchoene wrote:
I have also heard good thing about these folks from a famous Colonial Williamsburg cabinetmaker. Haven't been to Eureka Springs yet to check them out but understand that they make fine planes.
Steve
Thanks all for the tips. I've contacted Clark and Williams and am thinking of purchasing some planes from them.
Richard
Oldtimer,I love using wooden planes although i also use many steel planes like Lie-Nielen, and old Stanleys, and of course infills. As you can tell I love well made planes of all sorts.Some of the sourses like Clark- Williams,the best thing.comare outstanding but there are a few others you might try. For molding planes E-bay can not be beat. They have an awsome selection at all times.Some are junk but most are very good. Some of the best molding planes I have gotten are from Great Britain. Try Tony Murland's site and Andy Stephans. I believe the English used their wooden planes longer than Craftsmen in the USA did so the selection is greater. Steve Knight in Portland makes some great woodies at very reasonable prices although not many molders.Get two great Books that will help immensely:Graham Blackburn's on Traditional Tools and Michael Dunbars on reconditioning old planes. They have helped me tremendously. Also have patience. Learning to adjust a wooden plane takes alot of practise but one day it will come to you.Last idea: after you learn to use some western planes try a good japanese smoother. Again it takes some effort and practise but they are wonderful.Good luck,Dan Evans
Dan:
Thanks for the information. You have bought antique tools from Tony Murland and Andy Stephens. Is the quality of the planes good enough that they can be used with minimal reconditioning? It's nice to just have the old planes but I intend to use them. I visited the sites and the selection and appearance is great. The prices are very reasonable - especially for sets of H&R's. In your opinion and experience, how good are the tools marked G++. How good are the irons? Can replacement irons be bought anywhere in particular (for instance Ron Hock) or do I have to make my own?
Do you have any advice as far as buying old planes from E-bay that I'm going to want to use in my shop?
Also, the book by Dunbar- can't find "Reconditioning old planes" anywhere. Found "Restoring, Tuning and Using Classic Woodworking Tools". Is that the one? or is the book or article just about old planes?
Thanks again
Richard
Edited 11/9/2005 7:26 pm ET by oldtimer
Edited 11/9/2005 8:37 pm ET by oldtimer
You found the right Dunbar book. Seek out the rare (but still inexpensive) bookclub hardback version for some really crisp photos! Check out the Midwest Tool CVollectors website - links for book lists, including making wooden planes.
http://www.mwtca.org/
John in Texas
Richard,Tails or Pins is right on the Dunbar book. This is a great resource. As far as replacement blades dont hold your breath. Molders especially have irons that were specifically made for a particlar plane so trying to replace an iron will mean you making it yourself. Rather than doing this a key buying decision is how much of the blade is left. Ask the seller.Your question about users is excellant. There are two types of buyers: users and collectors. I am primarily of the former so I look at the quality of the sole,blade,absence of cracks and checks. Some books on antique tools have rating systems to grade the rarity of planes made by certain makers. These grades are primarily for collecters. On e bay these will be bid up very quickly. I avoid these.A good plane that is 200 years old can certainly be a good user. I bought a Panel Raiser from Tony Murland that was made by a craftsman who went out of business in 1820. It is in wonderful shape and is very solid. I have used it although not every day. Wooden Jack planes are usually in much more used and correspondingly in worse shape.Hollows and Rounds are a great place to start. It is truely amazing what you can do with various sizes. Sometimes the simpliest tool can do the most intricate work and this is true of H's and R's. You can create a wonderful Crown Molding with these and some rabbitt planes or table saw. I love my routers but these planes can do things that a router cannot.Dan
Richard,One of your questions I forgot: G++ is my minimum standard because I do not want to spend a bunch of time reconditioning. I will clean them up, put on a large amount of linseed oil, wax them and then sharpen the blade which is the hardest part due to the angles and beads. I am still learning this step so if anyone has some special tricks I am all ears.I use dowells with sandpaper and slips. the planes I have received from England and Ebay have almost always satisfied this stardard.Dan
Dan:
A good hint on welcoming sharpening info. I welcome any and all input on sharpening molding planes also. This is all new to me but I'm in love with the idea of decreasing the noise and dust level in my shop (and house) and with the use of traditional hand tools. There's something therapeutic to the mind and soul about it. (I'm getting teary eyed).
I take it, then, that you've had good luck buying from England as far as the quality of body and plane iron is concerned. The price quoted says it includes shipping (that's the price with shipping to the US?). How long before you've received them after ordering?
What's your opinion of the plow plane? A good tool to have for roughing out. I know there are a few different types - can you recommend one? Are they usually in pretty good shape?
Richard
Please communicate with the seller about the shipping. The Brits are often talking about local shipping. Time for delivery can be two days for air at great cost .... often $20 or more, all the way to two weeks by freight (boat?) @ $5 to $10. Parcel post or equivalent is usually a week at something in between. Often, large quantities of auction items needing low cost shipping to USA are packaged, then containerized for shipboard transit to an agent in the US who breaks the container down and posts the packages on to the buyer..... but it varies with the seller.
I have found that the condition of the American sourced planes is usually better .... showing less wear and chrisper features, corners, mouths, etc, etc, than those from Britain. Visit the MWTCA website .... there are dozens of sellers on this side of the pond that can usually meet your needs ..... and if not, let them know what you are seeking, as they have many sources themselves and can locate it for you. Better yet, join and attend a meeting near you for a truly eye-opening and mind-boggeling experience .... but take your checkbook! I think there was an article in a recent Fine Woodworking making this same statement!
Good Luck,
John in Texas
Richard,Tails and Pins is correct that shipping from England can get to be exensive although Tony Murlands sight includes shipping! His sight is http://www.antiquetools.co.uk. You will notice he has a US price and a Great Britain Price. Shipping time is a week or two. Inchmartine Tool Bazaar is Andrew Stephens sight and is awesome. Yes you pay for shipping so wait untill he comes out with one of his online catalogs, next one is in December, and then buy several. Quality in Great Britain is extremely good. Prices are lower to offset the shipping and the selection is better except for e-bay and some of the tool auctions spooncered thoughout the US by Mid West Tool Collectors,www.mwtca.org. As far os a plow I do have one although I do not use it very often. I use my Stanley 45 or a router for grooving and dadoing. Plows can be very expensive due to the mark up from collectors; plows are hot items for collecters but you can get a good user on e-bay or other places for $150-200.I also love the piece and quite of hand tools but also use my power tools especially for dimensioning rough lumber. I love my routers for joinery but I am using more and more molders for molding. If I did this for a living I might feel differently. I think there is much to be said for learning both approaches and then applying what works for the indivdual craftsman. Have fun,Dan
Dan:
Thanks for the info on British tools. I'm tempted to buy. I assume from the way you talk that you've bought tools from Murland - and seem to be satisfied.
You mentioned you have a Stanley 45. What's your opinion of it - compared to buying individual molding planes? I'm particularly interested in the apparent versatility of the hollows and rounds. I've also heard that the Stanley is a nightmare to use. It seems like a great machine, capable of making a great many profiles but some say it's difficult to learn to use well, that the set up time is long and individual molding planes are faster, easier and much more satifying to use. What's your take on it?
Richard
Richard,The Stanley 45 that have and use is more basic than the Stanley 55. The 45 has a total number of blades of around 27 I believe. it is good for rabbitting, beading, groving, and tongue and grove. The Stanley 55 on the other hand was designed to be a comlete molding tool with many more blades than the 45. I have heard the same thing that it is diffulcult to set up and use. I heard that from the guys at Shepherd Tools, who make some great Infill planes the old fashioned way. In addition to making planes they are avid collectors. I took a class from them. Since a good 55 costs upwards of $300 with the additional cost of all the blades, I decided to spend my money elsewheres.The 45 is east to use but can easily be replaced by woodin molding planes or a router. I just get a kick out of using it occationally. The I have read an older article in Fine Woodworking Mario Rodriguez who wrote very positively of the Stanley 55. Maybe in the right hands it is very effective but at a cost $$$.The Stanley 48 is pretty common and is a very effective tool. It is strickly for tongue and groves and is an excellant substitute for a router or a table saw with a dado blade. The Stanley 78 is also worth getting for rabbitts or raised panels. Lie-Nielsen or Hock sell replacement blades for the 78 which I recommend. I love these old tools but one problem I do have with them and new tools is they are all for right handed people which I am not. I have never seen a molding plane for left handed people. Since 25% of the worlds population are left handed I have heard that we are the largest minority in the world. since I do alot of hand planing I built my bench left handed.Dan
if you want to buy new, these guys are the place to buy from...
http://www.planemaker.com/
alternativly, second hand tool dealers are the next best bet... second hand comes with its hazzards... I didn't realise when I bought mine that I'd be buying 50 antique "projects"... took some work to get them back into action..... but the results have been worth it...
still feels alien "tuning" the set-up by smacking the plane (carefully) with a hammer.... takes a bit of geting used to... ;)
Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
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