I have a commission to build a buffet cabinet for a commercial yacht. The cabinet will be made from hardwood plywood with solid wood edges. It’ll be located in the main cabin and won’t be directly exposed to water, (freshwater, not seawater) other than what people might shed from their clothes. It’ll get some sunlight but not much and only at a fairly low angle.
I plan on using spar varnish for the finish to match what’s already there in the cabin. My question is: can you spray spar varnish with an HVLP sprayer and can you thin it? Also, is there a particular brand that’s better to use?
Thanks.
Replies
wooddood , Yes and Yes, most only require about 10% thinner to be sprayed through the average HVLP gun but some will require a bit more. I use Old Masters personally for most boats it stands up very well,and it sprays well I did a 1949 ford woody wagon about 9 years ago and it still looks like the day I did it.
Dan
I wouldn't use spar varnish, but rather a good conventional resin varnish. Marine spar varnish is needed mostly to cope with the challenges of sun and dramatic changes in humidity on deck. Interior varnish will be more proof to water than spar varnish, it the extent that matters.
A yacht of the size you imply won't have dramatic flexing of the hull either, so that aspect of spar varnish won't come into play.
Yes, you can spray, though with oil based varnishes you likely need a real spray booth to take away the overspray so none settles back on the surface that will remain wet for some time.
Also remember that, unless you are spectacularly good at templeting the design, you will likely have to do fitting during installation--even on large vessels there is likely that nothing will be square and you will have to sturdily affix the buffet to the structure. In some cases I would imagine it a lot easier to apply a final coat or two in place.
I agree with Steve. The shop I was involved with did lots of work for a high end custom yacht builder. Spar varnish was only used for exterior applications and never on a surface that would get walked on. Spar varnish is formulated to be soft and flexible so it remains adhered as a wooden spar flexed in wind and rapid changes in temperature and humidity.
What you want to use is an interior rated marine varnish (never poly varnish). Interior varnishes are quite a bit harder and more durable. They are actually more water resistant than exterior varnishes. The more oil in exterior varnish which make them flexible also reduces their water and water vapor resistance.
The varnishes you want to consider are ones that are specifically made for marine applications. Brands like Pettit, Wolsey, Interlux and Epifanes are your best bet. Go to a marine chandlery or marina to buy these products. Big boxes and regular paint stores do not carry them.
Spraying is an option with the caveats Steve mentioned. If you don't have top notch brushing skills, you might want to ask around at a marina for the name of a good varnisher. I learned my brushing skills at a yacht yard and it was a month or more, before I was allowed to apply finishes without constant supervision. For the final, "in place", coat of finish, a skilled finisher could be good insurance.
Thanks for the advice. The cabin is subject to most of the humidity conditions as the outside, but the cabinet will be all plywood so flexibility is not a big issue. The design will pretty much eliminate tight fitting against the hull, at least where it's visible, so the various curves and lack of flat surfaces will not be a major installation problem, nor will racking. (He said with the confidence of the totally naive)
I'll probably stick with the spar varnish since that's what's in the rest of the cabin and I'll try to spray it.
Thanks again.
Do you know directly from the builder that the rest of the interior varnishing is spar varnish, or does this come from the owner? Go into the interior, find a out of the way place and press moderately hard with your thumbnail. If you don't see a noticeable indentation it isn't spar varnish to begin with. You can't tell the difference between a marine interior varnish and spar varnish just by looking, though as Howard says the spar varnish is softer and less durable on the interior.
No interior gets the same humidity problems as the exterior of a yacht. Exterior wood can be dripping wet for days, followed directly by days of direct sun that heat horizontal surfaces to above the comfort level for sitting. Interiors mostly tend to stay on the humid side. Marine interior varnish will slow moisture transfer to a greater extent than spar varnish.
Just a side bar--table surfaces need fiddles (a raised fence--some are removable) around the edge to make it less easy for things to slide off, doors and drawers need to have positive catches so they don't open when not intended.
You got excellent advice from Howard and Steve not to use spar varnish. You are being foolish to ignore it.Spar varnish is not for furniture. It is designed to never fully harden, for all the reasons they gave. There is no reason to believe that other brightwork in the cabin is finished with spar varnish, nor that you will "match" anything by using spar varnish for your project.Spar varnish is not formulated to allow any kind of decent rubbing out (you are going to do that aren't you?) due to its softness, and it can be soft enough to feel strange to the touch and to deform under and adhere to things placed on it.It is always strange to read of plans to stubbornly go ahead with a process with which someone obviously has no experience or understanding, especially when given the benefit of such experience from others who have the wisdom.Rich
Edited 6/25/2009 6:34 pm ET by Rich14
Sorry but you are all making it sound stupid to use it? which it is not .Not my first choice ,but I sprayed for thee different yacht company's here in Vancouver Canada (which is right on the ocean) and they all spray every thing with it interior and exterior!as well you could always add harder if one wishes.Dan
Alan,
For what it's worth at this point, I would very strongly suggest The you check with Kurt at Dalys Paint. They have been doing the big boats in the North West since the 30's. All the high end Boat, Furniture, Cabinet guys use them. These really know the industry and I have never heard of anyone being steered in the wrong direction.
The products they make are all top shelf. They are the go to source for answers when it comes to Marine finishing, as well as all other finishing questions & material. I am not sure if you can purchase their products in the Chicagoland area or not. But they can ship product anywhere it needs to go.
There web site is http://www.dalyspaint.com and like I said talk to Kurt.
I have seen your work before & I know you do first class work and I am sure you want to keep it that way. You have nothing to lose by checking them out.
Good luck and keep up the great work, I love the designs of the furniture you create. I often turn to your web site for inspiration when I'm stuck.
Taigert
Dan,No one said stupid. Foolish, yes.I have no idea what kind of boats you were involved with, or why they used marine spar on the interior. I have finished marine cabinetry and I have owned my own boat. Mine was a good quality 36' sloop. Lots of brightwork. Its interior was finished with lacquer as were the interiors of most of the larger boats I had the opportunity to sail on.The most gorgeous wood work and finishing I have ever seen was in a 56' Swan. All teak. All hand-rubbed lacquer.Spar varnish was used only on exterior brightwork.Rich
same,same ,as I said would not be my choice .personally I hate all varnish on furniture!!!! I have done a lot more boat interiors with lacquer then with spar. I used to contract out to about 13 different company's who built boats ,some 13 feet some a hundreds.its personal choice ,if you wish to call some one foolish so be it. I learned a long time ago the customer is always right even when there not. that is why I no long contract out (unless its a repeat client) now I build and sell, and I only use varnish on projects that go outside.to Me a good craftsmen can do things to others taste ,not just his/her own. it would stand up fine ,and again would not be my choice.
Thanks again for the input. I'll probably use the spar varnish despite several suggestions otherwise, mainly because the rest of the cabin is done in spar and the owner periodically recoats everything and uses spar. I will suggest the lacquer to him (that would be my choice) but he's the boss.
This is a 60 ft. commercial yacht that is used for cruises up and down the Chicago lakefront- basically a party boat for hire, so it'll be subject to a lot of spillage, both lakewater as well as sloppy drinkers. The top will be countertop laminate (yuch!!!) with a wood lip, so no problems there.
When it's done, I'll post pics and we'll see how it lasts.
Cheers I would love to see those pic's will keep an eye out for them.
Dan
"I learned a long time ago the customer is always right even when there not. that is why I no long contract out (unless its a repeat client) now I build and sell."Dan,That pretty much sums up where I am right now.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com and now http://www.flairwoodworks.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
dood,
In that case,
To answer your original question(s) (again)
"My question is: can you spray spar varnish with an HVLP sprayer and can you thin it? Also, is there a particular brand that's better to use?"
1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. Not really, as long as you're using actual marine spar varnish (purchased at a marine supply store). Anything labeled spar varnish bought anywhere else doesn't compare in all respects - UV protection, and performance as the very long oil varnish that it is.
Good luck.
Rich
Here's a company that has marine varnishes for interior and exterior use. They consistently win reviews for durability and appearance. They also sell a line of very nice brushes for their application.
http://www.epifanes.com/home.htm
I met with the boat owner today to take some additional measurements (measure twice, cut once, unless it's a boat 30 miles away, then measure 3 more times and pray a lot). He's going to provide me with a marine varnish so it should work out just fine. I'll also being using a satin finish rather than the gloss that's on the rest of the wood in the boat. That'll give it more of a furniture look. He said he can always change it himself down the line if he wants, so all is good.
Thanks again for all the advice. It's been very helpful.
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