Replies

1. 
   jako17 | Jul 29, 2005 06:56am | #1

   Its a way of

          1) adding to your tool collection

          2) adding  pug ugly contrasting end grain to furniture destined to become fire wood

       By the way did you notice anyone else in the drawer with you,struggling with a dowel and muttering there has to be a better way?If you decide to purchase one let me know as I will be delighted to donate a copy (in plain sealed cover) of a pocket hole jig step stool plan; another aesthetic gem!

    

     

2. 
   JohnH | Jul 29, 2005 04:01pm | #2

   You can get the "corporate-speak" at http://www.millerdowel.com/

   Since they are dowels, you will get visible end-grain. Liking it or not is a personal opinion.

   I've used dozens of them and am a big fan of them in the right application. Here are my reasons for using them:

   1. If you've ever had a regular dowel balk half-way in because it swelled too much from the glue, you won't have that problem with Miller dowels.

   2. If you like the exposed end grain look, Miller dowels come in a variety of hardwoods to match your project. Okay, I could make my own dowels, but that's not how I want to spend my shop time.

   3. Also, the Miller dowel head has a smooth edge, so the glue groove on regular dowels is not seen. It has a nicer finished appearance.

   Anybody else like them? Got other reasons to use them?

    

1. 
   jazzdogg | Jul 29, 2005 06:50pm | #3

   John & Jako,

   Hmmmmmmmmm...

   And the reason for using them would be?

    -Jazzdogg-

   "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie

3. 
   Napie | Jul 29, 2005 08:50pm | #4

   I use them for utility type situations, (shelves, boxes), and jigs.  I like not having metal fasteners in table and band saw jigs for obvious reasons.  They are easy to use, align well and hold fine, but, they are NOT fine woodworking, period.

1. 
   jazzdogg | Jul 29, 2005 08:54pm | #5

   Napie,

   If you don't mind me asking, what's the advantage of the more costly Miller dowels over garden variety dowels?

   Thanks,

    -Jazzdogg-

   "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie

1. 
   Napie | Jul 29, 2005 10:46pm | #6

   They are much like using nails, clamp the parts together, drill the stepped hole, glue and pound in.  They do really align the work very well. 

1. 
   jazzdogg | Jul 30, 2005 08:02am | #7

   Thanks, Napie.-Jazzdogg-

   "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie

2. 
   darbywoods | Jul 31, 2005 05:30am | #8

   Napie

   I would like for you to define fine woodworking?

     is it using construction methods from 200 years ago.  M and t to put things together,  cut nails, hide glue, wooden hand planes, have the saw mill run on water. split a log with a 2 man saw with one in a pit?

    

   or is it using modern day construction methods, with a 5hp table saw and a forest wwii blade, 12" jointer, 15" planer, metal scraper.

   My opinion is that it is fine woodworking is good design, long lasting construction, great match of woods.  Yes i use some of the new items but i also use my Stanley 12 and 112 planes and a delta planer.  I will Hand rubbed a finish and also use a  spray booth.  i will do  m and t and also use a kreg jig.

   Other may disagree, look to here from others on the pros and cons of my opinion.

    

   David

    

1. 
   Napie | Aug 01, 2005 07:13pm | #11

   For the most part I do not consider dowels to be “fine” woodworking.  There are better methods to make joints.  Power tools are of course OK, our other shop has a 16” <!----><!----><!---->Northfield<!----><!----> jointer and a 24” planer that the <!----><!---->Newport<!----><!----> cabinetmakers apprentice would have loved!

   <!----><!----> <!---->

   I would basically agree with your description of “fine”.  But some things like dowels just don’t fit, they are a poor way of doing the job.

1. 
   dukeone | Aug 02, 2005 07:01am | #12

   Now is it just an aesthetic or a historical consideration or do dowels not make for a strong joint? KDMKenneth Duke Masters
   The Bill of Rights
   December 15 1791
   NRA Endowment Member
   LEAA Life Member
   CRPA Member

1. 
   KelsoChris | Aug 02, 2005 07:41am | #13

   The Miller Dowells while maybe not a fine woodworking technique do open new possibilities for beginning woodworkers.  A few years back I purchased the beadlock system when it first hit the scene and I used it on a ton of stuff until I learned other ways of getting things done.  I also purchased the Miller system as I have built numerous projects utilizing the pegged look.  Granted I haven't built anything worthy of being published in this fine magazine but someday I will.  When I have reached that dream it won't be because I started with the most difficult techniques but because I have learned new ones along the way building projects with the tools available.  I am sure that a lot of the tools we take for granted now met with much humbug when they were introduced, imagine the the first cabinet maker to hear that they were going to make cast iron planes that you could order through a catalog and not spend hours building your own.  Now, imagine that guys grandson when he heard that they were going to put long metal blades on a spinning shaft and power it with an electric motor.  Now perhaps the Miller Dowells aren't a ground breaking inovation but they might be the thing that helps some new woodworker hold his interest while successfully completing his first several projects so that he strives to expand his reprotoire of skills.  Not every project is a major comissioned piece and I would imagine that many don't earn a dime for anyone.  It would be my guess that a lot of projects only offer the reward of satisfaction which is probably the same feeling of pride wether its a dowelled step stool or a Queen Anne secretary especially if it's your first step stool.

   Sorry for the rant

   Chris Mohney  

2. 
   DarylRos | Aug 02, 2005 05:09pm | #14

   Miller Dowels are fast, accurate and strong. Don't be so picky about what constitutes "Fine" woodworking. Look at some Newport Furniture. They saved the best for the face, and used whatever works elsewhere.

   You don't worry about dovetailing everything, you can pin or nail it, screw it, glue it. Whatever. Miller Dowels are much stronger than standard dowels, and are very good for exterior applications when you use a mahogany dowel and Titebond III.

   I owuldn't use them where not appropriate, but you can actually hide it by using one, then making a "long grain" inlay button that will fit over it, recess the button like any round inlay, and that is that. Or you can insert a smaller round long grain inlay into it like a bulls eye.

    

   They are also pretty cheap and take up little space. So keep them in your arsenal when you need someting strong and fast.

3. 
   jazzdogg | Aug 02, 2005 08:57pm | #15

   "Miller Dowels are much stronger than standard dowels..."

   Daryl,

   Since you brought this up, can you please explain in greater detail why MIller dowels are stronger than standard dowels?

   Thanks,-Jazzdogg-

   "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie

4. 
   DarylRos | Aug 02, 2005 09:03pm | #16

   The ribbing provides much greater strength. Why? Well you could ask them, but my guess is the ripbbing rpovides much more surface area for glue. You see it when you insert the dowel wrong and try to get it out. You can't pull it out, you have to drill it out. Anyway, for whatever reason, they simply are stronger.

4. 
   Glaucon | Jul 31, 2005 06:36am | #9

   JD,

   I have a sort of utilitarian view about Miller dowels.  I wouldn't tend to use them in most upper end pieces- but I woudn't tend to use dowels at all for those applications. There are a couple of instances where they have been handy.

   I made a cut table for sheet goods- basically a frame of 2x3s that is 3 feet wide by 7 feet long.  It sits on folding legs, so I can keep it out of the way.  I had to join the frame pieces- I didn't want to spend a lot of time cutting M & Ts for a sacrificial table- but I didn't want to use metal fasteners either in case I cut too deeply with a saw blade or a router bit.  I T & G'd the members to increase the gluing surface area and reinforced with Miller dowels. It was quick and has worked well.

   Another area is in cope and stick doors.  If the door is large, I usually use a floating tenon to reinforce the joint.  If it is not so large, a Miller dowel coming in from the side works well.  I first used this on cabinets that I made for my handplanes and router bits, but I have since done it in some other Shaker style cabinets.  A maple dowel offers a nice detail contrast on cherry- and some original shaker pieces used either dowels or square through tenons for the same purpose.

   I have found that the drill and dowel match very well, so it is easy to drive the dowel without crushing the end grain, and its snug so that it does offer better joining strength.  Bottom line, you can sure live without them, but some times they are handy

   Glaucon

   If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...

1. 
   jazzdogg | Jul 31, 2005 07:37am | #10

   Glaucon,

   Thanks for the frank and rational perspective.

    -Jazzdogg-

   "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie