I love working with handtools but sometimes feel guilty about the time it takes me to do things. I am a newbie and know with practice, speed will improve. Is there any resource which emphasizes speed development. A lot of furniture was made before electricity and WW must have been pretty fast in days gone bye.
Thanks,
Zuge P.S. I have seen a tape of the Austrian WW (name slipped my mind) making a dovetailed drawer and his speed was awesome.
Replies
I personally am not familiar with any resource that emphasizes speed or efficient use of handtools.
It is an interesting question though.
There was a book published a while back titled "the efficient carpenter" and I think a sequel to it as well. I know I looked at it, but don't remember it as "earth shattering"
If you've ever encountered an electrician, they have their pouches right? well every tool seems to have to go back in exactly the same position it came from. They are obsessive about it. Maybe it has to do with working when the lights is out. That same ethic is definitely not found in my experience anyway in the carpentric trades.
While I will use manual mitre boxes in areas where I'd rather not spend 4 hrs vacuuming up MDF dust off of a room full of eclectic decorations,and sometimes opt for the handsaw method , when running a cord a coupla hundred feet would take more time than sawing the pieces by hand, most of my handtool vs normitic device usage decisions relate more to the set-up/clean-up time/possibility of noise complaints than they do to craftsmanship, though one cannot deny that the ability to work relatively dust/noise free could be considered a craftsmanlike ability in this crowded world.
I'd be interested in seeing what others post.
Eric in Cowtown
Commercial speed is what seperates the weekend part-timer from the professional. With time and practice, and the right gear, anyone can make OK. It's doing it at commercial speed that seperates the men from the boys. How do you get commercial speed? Training, application, the need to feed the kids ... and years of practice.
Malcolm
New Zealand | New Thinking
malcolm,
You said it. How many times have you talked to a hobbyist woodworker who brags about how many hours he has invested in his latest project, as if more time makes it better woodworking? Conversely, clients sometimes act as if they've been somehow cheated when they ask and I tell them how much time it took to build their project. (They want to think of one's lavishing uncounted hours on their project, yet have it delivered ahead of schedule.)
Coleridge said of writing, and being paid per word, "The two harshest taskmasters I ever worked for, are named Bread and Cheese". The same applies to being paid for what you produce, when the mortgage comes due each and every month, and the baby needs his peas and rice. Gotta get the work out, and it be above criticism, before the end of the week; that'll teach you to work fast!
Cheers,
Ray
Granted that I don't do woodworking for a living.That said, I prefer to use hand tools for quite a bit of stuff. My No.2 Millers Falls drill doesn't need an extension cord, doesn't run low on batteries and will drill most of what I need to install around the house. It's quiet, too. When I'm doing anything that calls for step-and-repeat or precisely bored holes I use my drill press.Unless I'm doing a lot of ripping I prefer to use handsaws, particularly for crosscutting. When SWMBO wanted a raised garden bed, I cut the timbers and half-laps with hand saws, the neighbours thought I'd lost my mind, (springtime here is heralded by the sound of a Skilsaw) but I didn't have to drag extension cords all over the yard and I could listen to the birds as I worked.I use a brace or a rachet to drive screws. Again, no extension cords and it's quiet.I use a router for dados when building shelves and profiling edges.I'll use my jointer for edges and a top surface, then finish up with a hand plane. IMO nothing looks as good as a planed surface. If I'm building a piece for the yard, I'll sand it. It's going to be painted anyhow.I'm not enough of a Luddite to use a foot powered lathe, mine is an old Delta Standard. I use a grinder to set edges, then finish with a stone or paper, depending. As far as ultimate edges go, I'm pretty relaxed about it, if it shaves, it's sharp enough. It worked for Sheraton, Chippendale, the Shakers and other cabinet makers I'd love to be good enough to immitate. YMMV.So, all in all, I guess I use hand tools about sixty percent of the time.Go ahead and laugh now ...Leon Jester
Thanks for all the comments. I do WW for pleasure and dont need to be concerned about putting food on table so I should not be as concerned, and just listen to the birds. One person seemed to suggest that there are better sources for dovetails than Franz. I would be plenty happy being half of Franz. Is there somethng I am missing?
I will keep plugging away and try to be more smooth in the process.If anyone sees something on speed or skill development, please pass it on.
Regards,
Zuge
Ahhhh the luxury of time..
I shove 30,000 bd.ft thru a planer and wish it would be faster. I set up infeed and outfeed rollers to speed up the process. I need to shove proably another 25,000 bd.ft thru planners, jointers, shapers and etc. and wish each went faster..
The thought of taking the time to finish each piece of wood to the degree some of you do makes me shudder. I wonder how much of it is putzing and play and how much is really craft..
Working with wood is a hobby to me as well but I don't want to make cute little knick knacks. Rather I want to create something that will live long past me and and become something that is treasured..
The timberframe I'm building is a ten year project, how much longer would it be if I were to use only hand tools?
Just about everything I do with wood has some sort of practical application.Although I took the obligatory shop classes in school I didn't really do anything much with woodworking until the late 80s, when I acquired a house built in 1927 and two more kids shortly thereafter.The house needed new screens, so I called around and got quotes on storm windows. After I picked myself up off the floor, I took another look at the wooden framed screens. My first major woodworking project was building 20-odd new screens. Then the oldest needed a bed. It went on from there. Shelves for home-canned goods. Bookshelves. Repairs. Needed an end table to cover with books and coffee cups.So all in all, I'm more of a carpenter than a cabinet maker. Mostly I'm a pretty fair jack-leg builder/furniture maker.Somewhere along the way I decided I didn't care for Minwax stains and researched making my own finishes in the style of the Regency and Georgian cabinet makers.New stationary equipment was too expensive, so I learnt how to re-hab old stuff.I enjoy it.You guys (and ladies) can laugh now ...Leon Jester
His name is Franz/Frank Klaus. I would suggest getting your dovetail joinery knowledge elsewhere. You did not state where you live; in San Francisco I can give some really good names to learn from.
If you want to make money in woodwrking buy some really good Euro machines and start knocking on doors.
If you want to enjoy the art/craft of fine wood working - take you time, your pride is at stake.
_________________________________
Michael in San Jose
"In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted." Bertrand Russell
If you are working as a hobby, I see no need to feel guilty about the time it takes, but I guess we all have that inborn desire to get things done. Speed with hand tools will come through practice, as you noted, but analyzing your method can go a long way toward efficiency. Simple things, such as doing all you can with one tool before putting it down, an orderly workbench ( here I should practice what I preach) careful attention to body stance, eliminating wasted movements and just having the right tool, all make for efficiency. At first thinking this way may actually slow you down, because you'll be thinking more about how you are doing what you are doing, but in the end it will help you build with speed. The Klauz (Spelling?) video, shows this approach applied to dovetails, so use it as a foundation to increase speed on other procedures. For me, speed comes with a mix of power and hand tools, with the emphasis on hand tools, in fact I could make furniture much more easily with hand tools only, than I could with power tools only. Many woodworkers I talk to are impressed with the speed with which I build things, but I still can't hold a candle to period cabinetmakers, who never heard of a bandsaw, surface planer, or router ( there are many times I wish I had never heard of a router), so I still have a way to go myself.
Rob Millard
It's Frank Klausz, and he's Hungarian.
Cheers,Kent
I think speed only comes when I push for speed and always think about speed, that helps me organize my sequence of work somewhat naturally to get faster.
Likewise, if I realize that I have been "piddling" for a couple of hours, nothing really has gotten done. That seems to frustrate me more than anything, as my hours in the shop are somewhat limited.
Cal
I agree with the previous posts about organization of the thought process. I think the main reason I have gotten faster after all these years is that I have already built it in my head long before I grab that first board. When I was first starting out I would stumble around trying to firgure out the next step (wasting time). Now it seems I have the right tools in the right place to do the next step. Some of it is just habit, some of it is well thought out but I worry less about the skill parts and more about the steps in the process.
Dennis
I also have to agree with what has been said before. Speed comes with practice and forethought no matter whether it is handtools or powered tools.
I have usually built my projects in my head several times over before I even pick up a piece of wood. I prefer working with the hand tools, but there are some operations that the power tool just does more efficiently.
Once again, two hinges, use the chisel, 20 hinges use the router. I hate the clouds of dust that power tools make, but I'd be lost without my planer and drum sander also.
I have a American book on horseshoeing written in the 60's that talks about this aspect of the work very well. (Shoeing is still very much a hand tool trade).
The author identifies that there are two parts to a job, those that need attention and those that can be sped up. When shoeing, the part that takes the most time is moving between the horse and the anvil - if you can reduce the number of trips by training your eye to the shape of shoe required you will save a lot of time without having to do any changes to the care applied to hoof prep or finishing.
I think similarly, if you train yourself to cut accurately with a saw (I have a way to go), then you will save time paring to the line.
I use both hand and power tools. For me, often the hand tools ARE the quickest option. Everything in my shop (garage) is on mobile bases so part of my decision of which way to go includes the amount of time it's going to take to slide the current tools(s) out of the way and pull another one out and set it up. For example - if I only have a few pieces that need to have a radiused edge on them, I can probably get it done quicker with a block plane and hand sanding than sliding a TS and jointer out of the way then pulling out my router table and setting it up with a roundover bit. If I've got to do 20 pieces, the machine change-over and setup start to look a whole lot more appealing.
There's also lots of time I have the TS set up for a particular operation and don't want to change the blade or fence settings yet. So in the meantime if I need a few crosscuts or miters, it's quicker to grab a hand saw or use my hand miter station.
Mortising for 2 hinges? It's probably quicker to just grab the chisels. Mortising for 10 hinges? Think I'll set up the router.
Then again, sometimes it's just nice to have the peace and quiet and relaxation of hand tools even if it takes a little longer.
If you build it - he will come.
I must agree with you there, that the quiet sound of handtools is a reprieve from all that noise of power tools, but it does matter how many pieces is needing attention. The best thing that is from the use of hand tools is the minimal dust it kicks up, and I like best of all hand tools the hand planer. Just my opinion, but many times for a nice cut I will use power tools.
B Near
Edited 3/9/2005 8:17 am ET by Knaughty
I'm a hobbyist and I'm slow. (much to the frustration of my wife. . .'You spent how long down there, and that's all you got done??')
On the other hand, there's a difference between being quick and rushing through a job. If you watch a pro, sometimes they're very slow and careful, even with power tools. I think the difference in speed is that the pro is organized in his thoughts, as well as in tools and materials--so he can move quickly through set-up and take his time working the wood.
Yes, I've seen Frank Klausz do hand-cut dovetails. When you've cut THAT many dovetails (mortice/tennon) or any other operation, you will pick up speed. Part of speed is practice, part is working efficiently. As was stated in an earlier post, cutting in one or two hinges, do it by hand, cutting in 20 hinges, set up a machine. Knowing when to use hand-tools and when to use machines will definitely speed up your work. The other factor is ... when you reach for a chisel, it is already sharp. You don't have to start your sharpening (tune-up) proceedure in the middle of a work session. As to ... a lot of furniture was made before electricity... these guys worked from sun-up to sundown and then into the night. Labor was relatively cheap, and the apprentice system gave you lots of very inexpensive labor. SawdustSteve
First of all, I'm slow as molasses, so what I'm saying here reflects my observations, not my practice. I think the secret to Klausz's speed at cutting dovetails is his methodical approach and accuracy. As others have said, he's efficient. Without doing a frame-by-frame analysis, I'd guess that when he's rolling, probably 80% of his work time is actual marking, sawing, and chiseling, with the balance being picking up tools, positioning and clamping parts, and moving around the shop. An amateur doinker like me is probably chugging along at about 20% on a good day. Accuracy, in this case, means sawing to the line on the first try, and chopping out the pins and tails in two or three whacks each, with the final blow landing right on the mark. Klausz's aim with a chisel is amazing. This can only come with a lot of practice.
I think it was the race driver Jackie Stewart who said something like: "Don't try to drive fast. Concentrate on driving smoothly, and speed will follow."
As for the grunt work of sawing and surfacing lumber, I don't think the old-timers had any magic secrets, they just worked longer and harder than we're used to. Think dawn to after dusk, six days a week, and apprenticeships starting at 12 or 13 years of age. Also, if you look at old handmade pieces, you'll often find shortcuts, like hidden surfaces left unfinished. Boards were often planed to the quickest practical thickness, rather than to "standard" increments.
Kent,
"I don't think the old-timers had any magic secrets, they just worked longer and harder than we're used to. Think dawn to after dusk, six days a week.."
Your comment reminded me of a show I was watching last night on PBS about Logging up in Vermont in the late 30's-40's. Anyhow, they had a guy up there they referred to as the Russian...nothing but a hand saw...8-10 cord of four footers per day..all stacked.
Is thee any wonder they all died in their fifties and sixties...
Woodworking is your hobby, why feel guilty if you are not the fastest craftsmen in the world. When I was an apprentice carpenter ( before the wheel was invented) my boss told me that my partner had to be the slowest carpenter he ever saw. I knew that Tom , my partner, worked for this same foreman for 16 years and never lost a day. I asked the foreman why do you keep him if you say he is too slow. His answer, "In sixteen years I can't recall ever having to send him back to redo a mistake".
mike
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