All,
I’m starting to think about spokeshaves and would appreciate some input from those who have and use them. Prices seem to vary quite a bit with the LN @ $124 to the Veritas @ $65 and today I noticed the Kunz @ $26 about. I would assume that LN is probably very nice but can the Veritas and or the Kunz be just as nice with tuning? Generally, I go with the ‘get what you pay for principle’ however, I don’t need rosewood handles to shape wood. Lastly, I’ve got a Stanley 80, does a flat spoleshave have as much utility as a concave or convex? thanks
Replies
I've not used the Boggs shaves from LN, so I can't comment on them, nor have I used the new LV shaves. I do have the LV low angle shave which works well. I also have the small brass shaves from LN and I like them a lot. For some people the handles aren't substantial enough, but I like the grip and control I get when doing fine trimmings.
The spoke shave is such a simple instrument that it is hard to find reasonable ways to make it expensive. Hunt for a used stanley for a few bucks. It will do everything that the expensive one will do. For most purposes the flat sole is easier to use, and the convex sole only for distinctly concave surfaces.
Tom
BG,
I've got 5 spokeshaves, and I use two of them. I've got 2 beautiful old wood models that I don't use because I don't think they work very well. I've got one odd ball with a convex sole that is OK.
The ones I use however, are the $10 Stanleys I picked up on Ebay. Ones a 51, which is probably the most common shave there is. I does not have an easy way to set depth of cut, but once you get it set, it really works well. The other is a 151, which is easier to set then the 51 due to two sdjuster screws. Makes it a little heavier too. Both of these have a flat sole, and unless your shaving a really tight radius, like the size of the lip of a coffee cup, I think you don't need the curved soles. The soles on the 151 and the 51 are so short, that you can easily use them on radiuses.
You get what you pay for, to a degree. Remember, the prewar Stanley tools are some of the best ever made. Sure the LN is going to be a nice shave, and if you want to spend that much on a shave, you've love it. The Veritas is a nice shave too, but it looks like it was made yesterday in Taiwan. The Kunz tools I've messed with are very poor knock offs of Stanleys. IMHO, can't beat the old Stanley iron. Stanley made 37 different shaves, so I bet you can find one you like. If you can, get SW vintage.
I have tthe record flat and convex models, and find them good quality, however, I recently bought the Lee Valley and I believe, IMHO, that it is a better tool, minimul tuning needed.A good value for the buck.
BG,
You don't say what you'll be using your 'shaves for.
I have a pair of the LN brass spokeshaves that I initially obtained for chairmaking. The throat is set for an ultra-fine shaving on both - not optimal for shaving green wood. However, since they're brass, the throats will wear with use, so opening them up a tad was a gamble. After using them on kiln-dried wood, I went ahead and opened up the throats with diamond paddles because, although they took very fine shavings, the throat kept clogging.
The low positioning of the handles is ideal for shaving spokes, spindles and the like, but some folks who've used these shaves for flat work have complained that the handles are positioned too low for their taste. There was a very favorable review in a relatively recent issue of FWW.
I've used the Brian Boggs spokeshaves that used to be made by Lee Valley/Veritas and are now made by Lie-Nielsen. They're exquisite tools. I found the new Lee Valley/Veritas spokeshaves with the composite plastic handles fairly uncomfortable in my hands, but that's a decision you'll have to make for yourself.
For my money, ease of blade adjustment is critical. The LN small brass models don't have a fine adjustment mechanism, but they're easy to adjust and hold their setting without slipping after hand-tightening the knurled nut that holds the blade in place.
A friend makes wooden spokeshaves with Hock blades. Their handles are nice and low, and they have terrific balance and take wonderfully thin shavings. I'll be making a few for myself after he gives me a few lessons on the fine points.
I'd love to find a spokeshave of the same quality as the Boggs or LN small brass models with an adjustable mouth, but haven't seen any.
Good luck with your quest,
Paul
BG
I currently have 2 vintage Stanley spokeshaves with Hock blades, one modern Stanley and the LN Boggs. I've also tried the LV low angle shave as well as wood-body shave made by John Kraus. Without question the Boggs, and the shave made by John Kraus are the best of the best...they are truly a joy to use. I prefer the Boggs over the wood shave only because of how easy it is to adjust the blade.
If you don't want to spend the money for either of these these two shaves, then look for older Stanley models with straight handles, tune it up & install a Hock blade.
John
I bought two of the Kuntz shaves (thought they were a great deal) and can only suggest you save your money for a better tool. They are very light and poorly machined - not worth a fraction of what they charge for them.
Jeff
BG,
The old Stanley # 80 if I am not mistaken is used more as a scraper not a spokeshave . Thats why the blade is so much more straight up and down . dusty
All,
Thank you all for responding, there is some great information you all are sharing. One of the first things I'm concluding is I don't have the foggiest idea if the spokeshave is the right tool for what I'm trying to accomplish.
My objective is cabriole legs. I've made a template and have lots of scrap wood to offer up to the bandsaw. I have a couple of rasps/files to help with shaping but thought the spokeshave would hog off the heavy stuff? Some articles indicate shaping the rough cut outs can be done with sanding but I'm looking for a different way. Quite frankly, I don't think I would ever have the skill to make a nicely shaped cabriole leg...let alone duplicates...but I gotta try.
Any information you could share on using spokeshsaves or other tools for cabriole legs would be appreciated. thanks
Hi BG ,
A long time ago I was told one of the first signs of intelligence is when someone admits they don't know something. During my apprenticeship I was fortunate to work along side of a very accomplished carver . I watched him make a set of cabriole legs , wow ! What an enlightening period of time that was.What he did to smooth out and help shape the legs to the graceful shape that they were was to use various size , shape and thickness scrapers,yep that is how one carver did it. He was able to put such an edge or burr on the scrapers that they were like surgical tools. He showed and taught us much just by us observing him . The only thing he would not show us was exactly how he sharpened the scrapers. I have always used a burnishing tool , but honestly have never been able to match his .When he carved the perfectly round bun foot , I looked at it and would have bet any amount of money that it was turned on a lathe.We also watched him carve a matched set of lion's heads,double wow !
good luck dusty
Dusty,
Thanks, your confirming my worst fears...it takes tallent....lol...plus tricks of the trade...sigh! Over the past couple of years I've only mastered pushing straight..whether its wood or a tool (even a chisel) its straight or forget it..lol
When you say scrapers...just pieces of metal cut in odd shapes?...did any of these shapes match the template?? thanks
BG ,
There are standard size and shapes of scrapers, rectangular and one that is shaped like a kidney or a paisley. They did not match any templates .You can make your own from an old hand saw blade or other suitable steel blank. Joinerswork is giving you some super first hand information . He is speaking from experience , listen to him . As he also said rasps and files can be used to do the shaping .
"remember if it was easy anybody could do it"
good luck dusty
dusty,
Yes, I took joinerwork comments copied them and saved them to the desktop for future reference. Thanks for the tips on the scrapers.
BG,
Your templates are the most difficult (IMO) part of the cabriole leg. I've been working them out for 30+ yrs , thought the first ones were surprisingly easy; the patterns keep getting harder! (Could be I'm more discriminating as time goes by.) The thing to keep in mind is that the shape is determined when you bandsaw, just how round do you want them to be when shaping?
I start out with the bandsawn leg held by its square in a hinged pair of blocks that I clamp in the lag vise. The leg is pointing straight out at me. Use the spokeshave to fair up any bumps or hollows left by the bandsaw. Work all 4 sides.Then start by roughly octagonal-izing the blank; taper the cuts from nothing at the top and bottoms of the legs. Work the front corner, then both side edges, then the back corner of the leg. Change to the spokeshave, and round over the chamfers you created with the drawknife, aiming to leave just the center of the flats from the bandsawn squares. (It might help to pencil in a center line down the length of all 4 sides for starters.) You may need to use a rasp or file at the places where grain direction changes at the ankle. The transition from ankle to foot is the hardest to visualise for most folks. A higher or lower "instep" really changes the aspect of the leg, you just have to decide what you want, and stop when you get there. Finish up with scraper. then sand. I've used an inflatable drum sander, but if you carefully scrape, you can start hand sanding with 100 grit paper.
Good luck,
Ray
Ray,
I'm thinking of buying the Phil Lowe tape ...the focus is on the ball and claw foot (I'm not going anyway near ball and claw), hopefully is covers the rest of the leg also...or maybe there's another tape? You also mentioned a draw knife..is there a size to that?
Wow, 30 years....but I guess that is one of the reasons I'm trying to do this...helps me appreciate the quality of others and woodworking in general.
BG,
The drawknife I use for cacriole legs has about 8" long blade, but use whatever you have, it's not critical.
Carving your first b&c foot isn't all that hard--it's getting the other 3 to look like the 1st one that's tricky! ;?))
Joinerswork,
'Tricky'..is an understatement. My religion says cloning is a sin...lol...I make no exceptions even on the lathe...lol
BG,
Amongst my collection of shaves, like Jeff, I own two Kunz shaves. And like Jeff I advise you to look elsewhere. They are inferior in every possible way--and probably in ways thought not possible.
I also have two Record shaves. They're better than the Kunz, but are not top drawer. There was an article in FW a while ago about making new back irons and remaking the bed for these tools. I made all or most of the steps in the article and the shaves are quite a bit better for the effort.
Again, stay away from the Kunz shaves. IMHO no amount of reworking them will be rewarded with usable quality tools.
Alan
alan,
I went over to Woodcraft today to take a look at the spokeshaves. The Kunz was very unimpressive....and the LN Boggs was under glass ...very nice, but...
I got the new catalogue from Lee Valley and the Veritas looks very nice. I'll probably see what the used market has to offer ...just like all my other planes..someone mentioned the Stanley 51 and 151..
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