Replies

1. 
   joinerswork | Jul 12, 2006 05:49pm | #1

   Jerry,

   If the curve you are cleaning up is a fairly large radius, you can change the angle of attack (relation of the line of the blade's edge, to the centerline of the work) from 90* to 45*, 60*, or so, and cut with a slicing (sliding from one end of the blade's edge to the other as you push) rather than a simple pushing of the tool.  Continually changing the angle that the edge is resting on the wood will help to cancel out chattermarks, and slicing will make for a smoother cut also.  The angled sole will also help to bridge low areas of the curve you are fairing, and knock off the high spots.

   Spokeshaves can be a torment, especially if they are not really sharp.  You can follow up with a scraper, if necessary.

   Regards,

   Ray Pine

2. 
   hdgis1 | Jul 12, 2006 06:10pm | #2

   Try a set of pattern makers rasps. I use this with sucess on cabriole legs and the such.

3. 
   oldusty | Jul 12, 2006 06:30pm | #3

   Jerry,              As for cleaning up the band saw marks with a scraper , imo using a very thin and flexible as well as sharp one will most likely get in the curves and once you find out the direction the wood wants to be worked you should be able to clean things up nicely .

     Depending on how much meat needs to be removed rasps could be used before scraping . To me it seems many of the scrapers are so stiff . Making your own out of the right old thin  piece of sawblade could be an added benefit for this process .

                                     good  luck  dusty

4. 
   Jimma | Jul 12, 2006 07:10pm | #4

   You and I probably belong to the same "club". I often give up on the curved-bottom spokeshave because I can't get it to perform well. When that happens, I turn to other methods as suggested above (also check out the Taunton book "Shaping Wood"). But, that said and addressing your question, it frustrated me that somebody has designed a tool for the kind of application you've mentioned and I can't make it work. I suspect the answer lies in the specific tool -- like the Record knock-off of the Stanley. Last year FWW ran a whole article on how to "tune up" those Record spokeshaves (read that as how to make the things work) and it was estimated that it would only take a few hours and some metal-working skills to get them to do what they're supposed to do. It so happened that I got a Lie-Nielsen spokeshave about the same time as a gift and it worked beautifully right out of the box. Granted there was a slight learning curve to it, but it quickly did the job and made me wonder mightily about the Record version. I haven't tried to make the Record work since. If you have a dogged commitment to making that curved model work, check out the article and see if your tool is worth it -- or get a better tool. I don't think anybody who has worked wood for as long as you or I is lacking the skill to use the tool. I think it's the tool. Good luck!

   
   

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   Edited 7/12/2006 12:23 pm ET by Jimma

1. 
   Patto | Jul 13, 2006 04:39am | #5

   I have had exactly the same problem but have yet to ask (only stupid question is the one you don't ask). My solution has been to order a better set of shaves. They havent arrived yet so can't comment (Conversation with wife - 'so why do you need these, I spose they come in different sizes?' 'Well not really' 'so the old ones are worn out?' 'well no, but I dont like one of them, and the new ones look really good' 'well, OK then' - which is one reason I treasure the girl)

   Even if you sort out the spokeshave issue, you should consider a compass plane. I have a Stanley 113 (from the late 1800's (?) ) that set me back about $300 Aust, have only used it a few times, and consider it worth every cent. I too have an obsession about fair curves. In my mind nothing leaps out across a room so much as a lumpy curve. In earlier hobbies, the only efficient way to achieve  a fair curve is to match a tool that is as close to the desired curve as possible over as long a length as practicable. This is why we use jointers - the curve is a line and we cover a long length of it to get it right. It is also (probably) why carving involves so many gouges. Provided the curve is not too tight, the compass plane also seems easier to use than a shave on the hardwoods I have available (Jarrah, Tas Blackwood, and Mountain ash)

   Dave

2. 
   Jfrostjr | Jul 20, 2006 07:11pm | #14

   Thank you Jimma! One of the VERY few times the problem was the tool rather than my skills.UPS was slow but the LN Boggs spokeshave arrived yesterday. I sharpened it up some and it works like a dream. Whisper-thin curls from those concave curves. Now I've got my "fair" curves on the legs at last.Thanks again.Frosty/Jerry

1. 
   Jimma | Jul 20, 2006 07:47pm | #15

   That's great. I had the same experience as mentioned before. The Boggs model is on my list for the next project needing a spokeshave. The two Record shaves are at the bottom of the drawer and may never see the light of day again. Meanwhile, the little bronze L-N model is serving my needs very well. One other thing -- I've found you can often get just the answer you need about a woodworking hand tool problem just by calling L-N and asking. They're very user friendly.

5. 
   DonStephan | Jul 13, 2006 05:18am | #6

   The substitute methods are helpful, but for general knowledge I would also like to know the secrets to using the 151 rounded bottom on a curve.

6. 
   Telemike | Jul 13, 2006 07:21am | #7

   This method has worked well for me.

   I can fair curves pretty well with convex sanding blocks with low grit paper like 60 to 120. Bandsaw the blocks out of scrap and sand or rasp THEM smooth and fair, then glue on a grip block to hold onto. When sanding the workpiece, you have to be very careful to keep the edges of the workpiece crisp by making sure that you don't tip the block to one side or the other. Don't even think about handsanding unless you intend to make radiused edges.

   When you've faired the curves and cleaned up the bandsaw marks, use a sharp cabinet scraper to give that tooled surface. Make sure that the scraper always cuts downhill; that is, that it doesn't lift the grain. You may have to change directions several times on each side of the leg.

7. 
   Jfrostjr | Jul 13, 2006 10:31pm | #8

   You "Knotheads" are the greatest.

   I am continually amazed at the number of you who respond quickly with relative and very helpful answers/suggestions. Thanks.

   I have tried many/most of the suggestions: angled approach, rasps, etc. so I was intrigued by Jimma's suggestion to 'blame it on the tool'. I went to LN's site and read that their spoke shave is designed to take a shaving .008" to .010". The throuat on my Record is 3/16" wide - probably why it wants to wobble and chatter. I don't have time to rework the Record so I ordered a new LN curved bottom, shave.

   I'll let you know how it works.

   Thanks again.

   Frosty

1. 
   Jimma | Jul 17, 2006 08:34pm | #10

   Which one did you order?

1. 
   Jfrostjr | Jul 18, 2006 04:40pm | #13

   I ordered the 'round bottom' large L-N/Boggs shave. It should be here today. I'll let you know the results.I have been, and always do, "angle a plane or spoke shave. It works great in all cases, even with my 'flat bottom' Record - but not with the round bottom Record. We'll see what L-N can do for me.Frosty (Jerry)

8. 
   jazzdogg | Jul 17, 2006 08:05pm | #9

   Hi Jerry,

   IN FWW issue #160, page 99, there are photos of spokeshaves made by Russ Filbeck, an extraordinary instructor at Palomar College.

   I've made a few: they're inexpensive, easy to make, and very satisfying to use; and they can be "tuned" to produce virtually any kind of results you like - from hogging-off wood quickly, to producing smooth surfaces and whispery shavings.

    

    

   -Jazzdogg-

   "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie

9. 
   cowtown | Jul 18, 2006 08:37am | #11

   my favorite is the round bottom. I presume yours is quite sharp, so I'll suggest that if it is chattering, perhaps the blade is protruding too much.

   So once you encounter the chatter, try angling the spokeshave a tad so that the blade ain't catching in the previous chatters, and making them worse, but rather bridging them, and hopefully evening them out. Keep a firm grip on the handles too...

   angle one way, angle another, and hopefully the chatter will disappear.

   Hope that helps.

   Eric

10. 
    Troy | Jul 18, 2006 08:59am | #12

    If you go the compass plane route try a used stanley #020. I picked one up on ebay for about 110.00 I had the Record version of the same plane and had troubles with it and like the Stanley better (the record had to tight a mouth of all things) You could also try an autobody flexabel file, I have seen these at Garret Wade. Or for a low tech method wrap a thin yard stick or wood ruler with sand paper and this will take the high spots off your curves.

    Have fun

    Troy

11. 
    John_D | Jul 21, 2006 08:56am | #16

    I don't know if this would work in your application but when I've got a pattern that's fair, I can bandsaw close to it then use a flush trim bit to get it dead on.  All that's left to clean is any burns.

    My goal is for my work to outlast me.  Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
1. 
   Jfrostjr | Jul 21, 2006 03:21pm | #17

   Good suggestion - I use it elsewhere, but it would not work in this situation. The legs are curved in all three dimensions - therefore no way to use a guide bearing or even to freehand. Frosty/Jerry

12. 
    eddiefromAustralia | Jul 22, 2006 02:09am | #18

    Hi jfrost,

    You've had your initial questions answed very well, but just a couple of points.

    A second hand compass plane costs about USD100 or so.

    The curved bottom spokeshaves are a balancing act - you hold the spokeshave delicately with the handle pinched between the thumb and the forefinger and pressed down - as you follow the curve, the back of the throat and the front of the throat are often the only two points of the shave touching the wood, with the blade set fine.  The angle of attack constantly changes, so really, a delicate touch is what makes the curves shaves follow the curve.

    Ray's advice to skew the spokeshave as you use it works well with a flat spokeshave, but has problems with a round bottom one.

    Sharp blade, finely set works with a curved shave.

    I just bought a pair of the HNT Gordon spokeshaves - they take a clean shaving working against the grain, which is the other problem with spokeshaves - fairing a curve works well until you hit the bottom of the curve and start to turn uphill again.

    The HNT shave is ground on a 3" radius internal curve.

    The LN spokeshave has a good (internet) reputation, but you'll still need the balancing act/fine touch to get it to work.

    Trust that this helps, and,

    Best regards,

    eddie

     

     

    
    

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    Edited 7/21/2006 7:19 pm by eddiefromAustralia

1. 
   Jfrostjr | Jul 22, 2006 03:56pm | #19

   I hear you. It seems the same problems with 'grain' exist down under. Yes, there is a problem with the transition at the bottom of the curve. I am learning that a light touch works best in this area.The ticklish area is where the curved portion of the leg meets the 'block shape' at the top of the leg. (Mounting area for aprons.) I think a scraper is the only tool which can fine-tune this area.Where do you buy the spoke shaves you mention? And, does the 3" radius really overcome the transition problems?Frosty/Jerry