I am a fine woodworker, and up until recently have been finishing my furniture with hand rubbed oil and wax finishes. This has worked fine, except for table tops where I have hand rubbed a polyurethane finish. This is a lot of time consuming work, and is difficult to get it looking perfect on a large table.
I am now working on a dining room table and realize that to get a nice, protective finish it will probably need to be sprayed. So, I need to buy spray equipment, and I do not want to use lacquer as it is both flammable and quite toxic. I am wondering if you have any suggestions for spraying in a small, home shop (720 ft2). I need a finish that is satin or matt, and is not too toxic while spraying. I can easily set up a fan to vent to the outside if necessary.
Replies
Is a wipe on finish not possible for the quality you want?
For a large dining room table I don't think wiping on a finish will be good enough. I find I have to rub it out, which is alot of work, and somehow it never looks perfect. So, I think for a table that is 42" wide x 8' long, I need to find some way to spray it.Lauren Waters
L. Waters Ltd.
Fine Woodworking
http://www.laurenwaters.com
Lauren
I have been spraying Crystalac (brand name) for about 5 years now. I use hvlp equipment. Crystalac is a water based product available in both satin and gloss finish. It is perfect for your application. It is ready to spray right out of the can without cutting it (with the right gun), and is rock hard for table tops. I spray all my furniture with it, and my wife's dining room table (3 years old) doesn't have a single mark on it. Glasses, alcoholic drinks, etc..... are all fine. And, if it ever gets scratched, or burnt, etc.... all's you have to do is sand it smooth and respray it. It's available at McFeeley's, or you can just do an internet search.
Jeff
I will look it up on the internet. Thank you very much. I am just curious though about a couple things. Do you need to wear a respirator when using it? Also, I am wondering if it is available in Canada?Lauren Waters
L. Waters Ltd.
Fine Woodworking
http://www.laurenwaters.com
Lauren
I always wear a respirator, no matter even if I'm spraying water. Just a habit. You know, eating pickles causes cancer!!! LOL
They say no, but I do anyway. As far as I know, you can order it online anywhere and have it shipped to Canada.
Jeff
To Jeff and Lauren,ALWAYS observe precautions about inhaling the material that's being sprayed. While spraying waterborne finishes eliminates the problems of toxic solvents, the consequences of inhaling the chemicals comprising the "solids" in the sprays is every bit as dangerous.I cannot imagine leaving a sprayed finish as the final finish surface, especially on a dining table. To me, spraying is just another method to get the finish onto the wood. It does not result in an attractive surface, certainly not one that can begin to compete with rubbing.The finish must be finished. It MUST be rubbed to achieve anything worthy of being called a fine wood surface, to say nothing of removing the inevitible dust nibs and other surface imperfections.Whether I'm spraying shallac, lacquer or a water-borne varnish, the process involves leveling with the appropriate abrasive paper between every several applications of shellac and lacquer and every application of varnish. The final spray is leveled then rubbed with either steel wool or 400-1200 wet-or-dry using a lubricant, then automotive rubbing then polishing compound (the modern equivalent of pumice and rottenstone).Rich
I'll second the idea that you will still need to rub the finish out. That's the main difference between an barely OK finish and a good one.
And, you have to get into the pretty sexy spray finishes--conversion varnishes and the like to get protection more than a conventional varnish. Most waterborne finishes are about as protective, with respect to household chemicals as nitrocellulose lacquer. They are also very picky with respect to temperature and humidity levels.
The advantage with spray is that you can usually get the body of the finish built in a faster elapsed time because of shorter recoat times. Actual time on task is not a whole lot less if you can do something productive while you watch the varnish dry. A good varnish is a lot easier to rub out than most water borne finishes or conversion varnish.
I would use a good brush on varnish, thinned for good flow out. Wipe-on takes many more coats, and since each coat is thin, there is much more chance of cutting through layers during the rub out process. Behlen's Rockhard is good, though relatively dark and needs a relatively large amount of thinning. . For a lighter varnish, Pratt & Lambert 38 is very good. Both of these will rub out nicer than poly, and be more than protective enough. All oil based varnishes (and paints) need thinning, depite the can labels. The labels say not to thin so that VOC rules aren't broken.
Steve,
Good points.
Just a small correction to my previous message, I don't take every project all the way to polishing compound. Some stop with 4-0 steel wool, others stop anywhere I want up through the final abrasive grades, depending on the desired final appearance.
4-0 is a nice matte finish, polishing compound followed by swirl removal is for the highest gloss.
An expert lacquer spray artist using automotive acrylics on cars can spray a final application that doesn't get any final rubbing and is beautiful to behold. But such a surface is not appropriate in furniture finishing. I've seen craftsmen who can lay varnish down with a brush, tip it off and have it harden without further treatment on bar tops and such. But such surfaces are known for their durability rather than the fineness of their surface quality.
Finishers who learn that the surface must be rubbed out quickly come to realize that life never again need be made anxious by dust nibs!
Rich
Sounds like we are on the same page.
Steve
With regards to recoat timing, this is exactly why I spray Crystalac. 1st coat, it's a good idea to wait 24 hours for full hardness. After that, I can spray progressive coats after each wetsanding only 20 minutes after spraying. The stuff is unbelievable. What used to take me 3 to 4 days for finishing, waiting for product to dry, I can now accomplish in 2 days. The other benefit is that on day 2, I don't have to clean the gun until the end of the day, instead of every day with other products with a 12 to 24 hour dry time between coats.
Jeff
Jeff and others,
What brand and setup of HVLP (or other spray type) do you folks use to spray Crystalac?
Thanks,
Bill
Something that wasn't really mentioned yet -- if you plan on spraying this relatively large table in your small shop, you may have some problems. Dust that is inherent in a shop environment will be almost impossible to keep off your finish and, conversely, overspray (there is ALWAYS overspary, even with HVLP) will be impossible to keep off your shop (and equipment residing therein) without taking some protective measures. I have a small shop too, and when I'm spraying, I set up a spray booth (plastic sheeting, exhaust fan, turntable) outside my shop. Pretty much limits me to fair-weather finishing, but I found that doing it in the shop was more trouble than it was worth. (Prior to putting together the "portable booth", I carefully vaccumed and curtained off everything in my shop -- a several-hour job at least.)
Mike Hennessy
That is a very good point. I hadn't really thought about having to clean the entire shop. I think that for this particularly large table, I am going to take it to a larger woodworking contractor and get them to spray it. However, I still want to set up a spray system in my own shop. But you may be correct, perhaps I will only be spraying during the spring/summer/fall during good weather.
Thanks for your input.Lauren Waters
L. Waters Ltd.
Fine Woodworking
http://www.laurenwaters.com
Bill
I have an Apollo 800 3 stage turbine hvlp system. It is easy to use. However, I now have a large compressor (175 psi, 26.7 cfm) I recently installed in my new shop, and am presently looking at an Eco hvlp conversion gun available at Homestead Finishing. I want one gun for dedication to Crystalac, and another dedicated to paint. The apollo is a nice setup for a small shop, and I would recommend it to somebody who is not spraying every day all the time.
Jeff
http://www.homesteadfinishes.com
http://www.compliantspraysystems.com
I have been spraying Minwax polycrylic with an HVLP setup. You can buy the spray gun - Husky Brand - for about $60. It's water-based and has stood up well.
I always spray with a mask and ventilated shop.
Thanks,
TTF
Let me start off by saying that you don't just pick up a spray outfit and begin spraying a table. Spraying requires a bit of a learning curve if you want to get the best looking finish. In the shop I was involved with, our apprentice finishers would spend a week or so just learning about mixing and thinning materials and then practising, first with water and then finish. Lots of cardboard boxes were sprayed for practise. It would be 2-4 weeks before they would do any real finishing.
It the very least, I would recommend you get Andy Charron's "Spray Finishing" for Amazon. It will talk about the correct equipment, finish preparation and thinning and spraying technique.
Also, keep in mind that spraying does not negate "finishing the finish" if you want a top quality look. Most finishes are not fully satisfactory right out of the gun.
Finally, don't make your table your learning experience. Lots of practice is a good idea.
I totally agree with you about getting experience spraying. I have used conventional HVLP spray guns in professional shops with proper ventilation using regular lacquer. However, philosophically I do not like regular lacquer because it is so toxic to the environment, and it continues to gas off in your home. I do recognize that their is a reason so many people use it, but it doesn't mean I have to. So, I do know how to spray and how to rub out the finish.
What I do not have experience with, is using anything other than regular lacquer. I now have my own shop, and do not have a separate finishing area with flame proof exhaust and lights. So, I am debating whether it is worth the expense of spray equipment to spray waterproof finishes or not. To date I have brushed on finishes on table tops and hand rubbed them out. However, on a very large table it is alot of work and hard to get it perfect.
Any advice?Lauren Waters
L. Waters Ltd.
Fine Woodworking
http://www.laurenwaters.com
I may not be the best spray finisher out there but I am pretty sure that no sprayed finish (regaurdless of the equipment) will look as good as your rubbed out finishes. I DO think that you should still use spray equipment as it speeds up the process greatly. Remember even the best automotive finishers spraying the best lacquers with the best equipment money can buy still have to level the finish afterwards.
For my best finish I like to spray 10 or more coats of Shellac sanding with 220 between most coats then I level it by progressing from 220 up to 0000 steel wool or buffing with polishing compounds. Because sprayed shellac dries in minutes this process goes pretty fast. Lacquer can be applied the same way.
Mike
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