Hello,
I am building new cabinets for our kitchen and had several questions I can’t find answers to on finishing them. We plan to paint them with an HVLP sprayer.
1. What is the best plywood to use if we are painting? I have already decided to use plywood over MDF. Do we use pre-finished plywood? One side finished or both?
2. Do the insides need to be painted? I have no problem painting the inside and had planned to, but is there a specific reason not to? Time really isn’t a huge issue.
3. When do you paint? It seems that the best time to paint is after putting them together but before installing them. Is that accurate? Should I paint them before assembly?
4. Scribing – tossing this one in here even though its really a build/install question. I plan on scribing the cabinet vice using a scribe molding. I had also planned on using full 3/4″ backs which seems like it might be an issue when it comes to scribing. Can it be done? Do I put the back on flush or should I inset it into the frame 1/4 to 1/2″? We have a house built in the 50s so I am sure the walls are going to be uneven, just not sure how much.
Thanks for any information you can give.
Replies
I have built two complete sets of spray painted cabinets. I suggest you use a good grade of plywood for the case, birch plywood from a good supply house. It costs but is worth it. You can use pre-finished plywood and turn the finished side to the inside so there is no need to paint inside the cabinet. If you decide to spray the inside of the cabinets do so before you put on the back. With back on the spray will blow out into your face. To spray latex paint you will have a learning curve but it can be done. Keep in mind that latex paint will take a long time to harden up and completely cure. I used a coat of Zinzar shellac based primer before the paint and it helped. You will need to scuff sand the primer as it alcohol based and will dry very fast and leave a slightly rough surface. You will need a good hvlp sprayer with a big orifice spray gun nozzle to pass the paint and enough pressure to work well. The manufacturer will have specs for whatever sprayer you decide on. The paint will need to be thinned with distilled water to pass through a viscosity cup in about 30 seconds. (You should see all of this in instructions) Add a few ounces of Floetrol to each mix to help the paint to spread evenly. Practice, practice, practice.... There are books and videos on how to spray paint cabinets. Good luck, it's all in the wrist.
As a kitchen remodeling professional I don't recommend household latex paints for kitchen cabinets they are too soft and not durable enough for repeated cleaning. There are paints available specifically for cabinets that provide a much better finish. Use caution because some of these require a spray booth with ventilation but others can be sprayed in open air.
Agree don't use cheap paint. Check out some advice from a Sherwin Williams store on what to use. They have trained people behind the counter. You don't want to use anything toxic if you don't have a spray booth. My last set of cabinets is 7 years old and no signs of chipping etc. Use good quality material.
Agree on not using regular latex paint. Much too soft. Oil used to be the best, but there are a couple of newer alkyd latex paints that druy much harder. Vastly better for a kitchen.
If you are painting not staining them Baltic birch plywood is the best choice, I like veneer core plywood versus poplar cores. I would not use the pre finished plywood, commercial manufactures do for expediency but it's an extra expense. Instead I would just clear finish the cabinet interior before painting the exterior, but unless you are blessed with a shop the size of an airplane hanger you will probably be limited to finishing a few cabinets at a time, so this may factor into the decision to use pre-finished.
Painting the insides is a personal preference, unless glass doors or open shelving is planned. I personally prefer the natural wood look on cabinet interiors and feel it's a little more forgiving than paint. A scratch in a clear finish is hardly noticeable while a scratch in paint stands out.
Painting should be done after assembly, except for some parts like drawer fronts. See the above mentioned line about airport hangars.
Unless you intend to build the cabinets in a frameless Euro style ¾" backs are space robbing overkill ⅜" Baltic Birch Ply is plenty strong enough for cabinet backs set into a ⅜"deep dado. If you do use ¾" ply for the backs use a ⅜"x ⅜" rabbet and ⅜" dado inset ⅜" to enable you to have a flush back, otherwise cut strips of ⅜" ply to flush the backs where you will be driving the mounting screws. It will offer advantages if you do the following. As for installation, a truly first class install would use 1"x 4" material installed horizontally shim to insure plumb and square. It's much easier to shim and adjust 1 x 4's versus cabinets. Only the end of run cabinets would be built with extended scribe sides on the exposed side only usually 1-1½ " is sufficient but you can get an idea prior to construction how out of square your room is. Upper cabinets would need two rows of 1x4's lowers only 1 at the top.
Thanks. I like the thought of clear finishing the inside before painting the outside. I might use pre-finished on the drawers though.
Definitely doing Euro style - I can't believe I forgot to mention that as that is where I started this whole project mentally.
When you mentioned the 1"x4", I thought you meant as a ledger, but I got lost at the two rows on top with one on the bottoms. Can you tell me what you meant by that?
Thanks.
If you feel your walls are severely uneven or out of square you can flatten and square them by using 1 x 4's which are easier to shim and adjust than cabinets. Once these are true you can easily screw the cabinets in place to these boards without further shiming or fuss. The gap created is easily concealed by extending the scribe side of any end of run cabinets.
The wall cabinets would need boards top and bottom but the base cabinets only need attached at the top of the cabinet, so only one board is needed.
This method also offers the advantage, especially with smaller cabinets of not being dependent on hitting a stud to securely anchor a cabinet, as long as you securely attach the 1 x 4's to the studs.
I did a large kitchen project and used baltic birch.
I used a poly over shellac both inside and out.
I would assume that enamel over shellac on the outside would work also.
Personally, I believe that Zinsser Seal Coat is the best against the wood and then pretty much anything sticks to it.
I also did a large closet project with pre-finished Birch and that is pretty durable and cleans easily. It is just a little too shiny for me on the outside.
I basically had to purchase a whole unit of the pre-finished stuff though so if you don't have a large project you may have challenges.
My boxes were 3/4" sides with 1/2" back dadoed in. I also used 3/4" tops and that can be a challenge if your cabinet top doesn't have a large enough return to cover.
I converted my garage into a finishing shop and you do have challenges doing much volume. I build a lazy susan for spraying but the real challenge was drying. If you have time (I did) then you can simply set up a couple of stations and spray and wait for recoat without moving. This is another reason I liked the shellac undercoat. Fast drying.
Thanks.
Where did you get the Baltic Birch? As a hobbyist, I've really only used places like HD and Lowes but also go to Woodcraft for hardwoods. The big box guys have birch, but not Baltic Birch and my understanding is they are different.
Google search for hardwood dealers in your area. Most towns have one within an hour drive and they can be a great asset and save you a lot of money if you are buying hardwoods from big box stores. Most hardwood dealers carry some plywoods of higher quality than the garbage HD, Lowe's is usually slightly better, sells.
I'm going to use a pigmented lacquer paint available from Target Coatings and I would suggest you check them out. You really need to use the right paint for kitchen cabs. Some people advocate latex with a top coat, I've never done that and don't like the idea b/c it just adds another layer of work.
I've done a couple vanities with the pigmented lacquer and really like the way it sprays and looks. There is a cross linker additive which I believe brings it to KCMA standards. They will match any BM or SW color code.
I'm not a professional, but I've built a couple kitchens. The insides need to be finished somehow. Lots of people use prefinished ply. But if I were painting the insides, melamine would be a no brainer for me. You'll save a ton of time and money the end product will absolutely acceptable.
If you go with SW, research their products. Some of the coatings like KemAqua are not available at stores, you have to go to the industrial division and I think its only 5 gallon amounts.
3/4" for the backs is totally unnecessary and adds a lot of weight. 1/4 panels with a nailer strip top and bottom or 1/2" is fine.
Are you doing frameless cabs? If so, get Danny Proulx's book its great.
You inset the back 1/8 - 1/4" to allow for irregularities in the walls.
Thanks. I had been pointed to Mohawk DuraCoat lacquer, but will check and compare it with the Target Coatings lacquer paint.
I did get Proulx's book on Euros. Still going through it. I think the reason I prefer 3/4" backs is less cutting. I know the nailer strips are easy to do, but with a tiny work area, it's just less to do.
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