Replies

1. 
   PlaneWood | Oct 23, 2002 05:29pm | #1

   Have you tried adding a little Flowtrol to the paint?  You can get it at Home Depot.  Follow the instructions on the can.  I use a standard pressurized spray gun with no problems.

   PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy
   PlaneWood

1. 
   Atcheson2 | Oct 23, 2002 05:52pm | #2

   I will try some flowtrol and see how that works.  I will get some today.

   Thanks, Pete

1. 
   JasonMI | Oct 23, 2002 08:09pm | #3

   Floetrol is for latex-based paints....Penetrol is for oil-based. It appears that if it's splattering, but not orange peeling, you don't have enough volume/air going through to properly atomize it...either reduce viscosity or get more air. Or, you could try getting a larger needle set and see if that works...however, you might wind up with the same problem (splattering), if you don't have enough volume to push the material. Or, you could try a different type of paint...Sherwin Williams makes a water-based enamel that sprays beautifully through my HVLP sprayer without any thinning or reducing. Enamels (even oil based ones), might work out better.

   Edited 10/23/2002 1:10:38 PM ET by JASON_MI

1. 
   PlaneWood | Oct 23, 2002 08:36pm | #4

   Yeah!  Penetrol!  Pardon the senior citizen moment!

   PlaneWood by Mike_in_KatyPlaneWood

2. 
   Atcheson2 | Oct 24, 2002 03:57am | #6

   I tried the penetrol today, adding a little at first and increasing it until I had a lot.  It still looks the same,  there is a fine grainy texture to the finish instead of being smooth like it should be.  I'm using Benjamin Moore antique white to match existing trim in the house to paint a fireplace mantel.   When I increase the fluid flow it goes to orange peel and I've tried changing the air flow and the distance of the gun to the surface.  If there is magic combination I haven't found it.  It seems like there would be a little room to play with in the mixture without having to dial it in perfectly.  This makes me think I need a different needle.  I called Wagner and they said the needle that comes with the gun is for general purpose and the next size might help, so I ordered it.  It's supposed to be a good quality gun.

   Thanks for your suggestions.  I'm going to play around with it some more tonight.

   Pete

1. 
   JasonMI | Oct 24, 2002 02:20pm | #8

   You're probably on the right track...too bad the other things didn't work out (which would have been cheaper). I have a Graco 4900, when I go on fan setting, it's easy to set up, and does a beautiful job....but when I turn it to "round"...for say a dime-sized pattern, it takes an awful lot of tinkering to get it right. I've usually found that in round, I have to reduce the amount of material, and increase the volume at the same time. I've never sprayed a true oil paint through it, mostly enamels, water-borne enamels, and latex...none of which need thinning through my gun (er...that's not quite true...I do put in a "little" floetrol...but it's not much...and I still have two larger needle sets if if needed).

2. 
   Atcheson2 | Oct 24, 2002 09:09pm | #11

   Yeah I've used the round pattern without much success, it makes a nice orange peel with this paint.  The vertical fan pattern works the best on this project.  I'm hoping the new needle set solves the problem.  After this I may not be using oil paint anymore.  It's been frustrating, after building this fire place mantle and not being able to get a good finish yet.

   Pete

2. 
   RW | Oct 24, 2002 03:30am | #5

   DK what you're thinning with. Lacquer thinner and I get along real well. It's viscous, it's hot, the oil atomizes great, and you can lay on multiple coats in a day. Plus the smell. Mmmmm. *cough*

1. 
   Atcheson2 | Oct 24, 2002 05:01am | #7

   I've been using mineral spirits for a thinner,  I thought a slower evaporating solvent would give the finish more time for self leveling.  I don't know if that's right or not.

   Pete

1. 
   AndyCharron1 | Oct 24, 2002 04:05pm | #9

   You don't say what Wagner system you have. Is your turbine a 2- or 3-stage? If it is 2-stage you will have a problem properly atomizing oil based paint no matter what you add to the material. If it is a 3-stage system you will have better luck, but it is still difficult to get good atomization of oil-based paint. Adding penetrol won't help with the atomization. Penetrol is a flow additive that helps the material flow across the surface better by increasing the open time of the coating. You can improve the atomization of oil-based paint by thinning the material with mineral spirits. How much thinner you use is a matter of trial and error, but you will most likely have to use a lot more than you would like to get good atomization. With a 3-stage turbine (Accuspray) I have had to thin oil-based paint by as much as 50% to get good atomization. The finish went on well and flowed out smoothly, but it was so thin I needed multiple coats to get the "hide" associated with opaque paints. Another way to increase the atomization is to use an air cap with smaller holes. The smaller holes increase the velocity of the air, which in turn breaks the paint up into finer particles. Wagner should be able to tell you what air cap you need. Changing the fluid tip won't really help with the atomization, but will simply alter the amount of material coming from the gun. I would think that if you try a combination of a smaller air cap and an increased amount of thinner, you should be able to get the paint to lay down smoothly.

1. 
   Atcheson2 | Oct 24, 2002 08:22pm | #10

   I have a Wagner 2600, I think it is three stage.  I have experimented with thinning the paint way down with mineral spirits like you said and had to spray many thin coats to get good coverage.  It seems to flatten the semigloss when it's thinned a lot.  I guess I would have to use a gloss to bring it up to semigloss, if that makes sense.  Anyway it feels smooth to the touch but under direct or raking light there is this grainy effect.  I'm sanding between coats to take it out.

   Can I use a latex, or something that goes on easier, on top of the oil just to get a smooth finish?

   The #4 needle system is express mailed, should be here tomorrow.  I didn't know to ask about an air cap with smaller holes like you said.  They said this one may be better for the oil.  There is another size #5 for higher viscosity gels and adhesives.  The #2 is for low viscosity material.

   I'll give this one a try and see how it goes.

   Thanks for your help, Pete

3. 
   RW | Oct 25, 2002 12:28am | #12

   No ones asked this yet, nice as the HVLP is, do you have access to a cup gun? I have several of those laying around, and even the cheapest of the lot does a good job with oil paint, and that one cost all of about 20 bucks. Maybe your HVLP is revolting at the idea that it's not being used for lacquer. Does it act snobbish?

1. 
   Atcheson2 | Oct 25, 2002 02:38am | #13

   Well I can't tell if it's snobbish or not.  If I had a cup gun I'd try it.  It's not bad idea, if I run out of patience with the HVLP I'll see if I can round one up.  There is always a brush but I'm not that good. The rest of the trim is like glass, I can't have my work stand out like a sore thumb.

1. 
   RW | Oct 25, 2002 04:21am | #14

   Its easy to tell if it's being snobbish. It's air cap goes

   ptbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbths! They're bred in the hills of Kentucky, you know, and get to grow up seeing how all those high velocity horses get treated. ;-)

   Are we successfully off topic yet?

1. 
   rushisaliar | Oct 25, 2002 06:36am | #15

   Try naptha as a thinner (faster than M Spirits-slower than L Thinner) Is it possible that you're spraying too thin a coat?

2. 
   Atcheson2 | Oct 26, 2002 05:36am | #16

   Well that explains it, I'm sure it's snobbish now.  Nothing but lacquer from now on.

1. 
   PlaneWood | Oct 26, 2002 07:31am | #17

   FYI - I had a Wagner years ago and wound up pitching it in the trash can.  I have an air compressor so I just use a cheapo Campbell Hausfeld and get good results.   I use a mini spray gun for detail work.  The Campbell Hausfeld sprays heavy bodied oil based paints fairly well.

   PlaneWood by Mike_in_KatyPlaneWood

2. 
   Atcheson2 | Oct 27, 2002 08:34am | #18

   Well I finally got a good finish spraying the oil paint today.  I thinned it about 10% with mineral spirits and a little penetrol.  When I thinned it too much before it flattened the semigloss.  I opened the airflow all the way and opened the fluid flow for a nice wet mist not too much, not too little.  I spray some and see a gritty sparkle on the surface.  Keep spraying and as soon as I see a wet orange peel form, STOP! It leveled out nice and smooth as it slowly dried.  It's taken about ten trys to get it, at least I have a method now.

   Thanks for everyones input, it all helped.

   Pete 

   Edited 10/27/2002 1:37:57 AM ET by ATCHESON2