Replies

1. 
   mudman | Apr 10, 2007 11:45pm | #1

   You could.... But you will need a small tip, maybe a 311 or 312. The pump would also use a whole can to prime itself (unless you have one of those little Wagner units). If you do have one of those wagner guns I don't know how that would do.

    

   All in all, Shellac is too easy to brush on to bother with an airless. The only catch with the brush is that you have to be fast to keep a "wet edge".

   Mike

   Pardon my spelling,

   Mike

   Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.

2. 
   xmike | Apr 10, 2007 11:58pm | #2

   Hi Magnus,
   May I recommend that you search the Finishing segment for "shellac" and read the numerous posts on the subject. At first, kinda confusing, but then it starts to make sense.
   Mike D

3. 
   frenchy | Apr 11, 2007 01:20am | #3

   magnus,

     If I can I'd like to explain something about finishing, if you know this already please ignore what I have to say..

      getting a really deep finish isn't a matter of painting, it's more a matter of sanding!

      Here's why,

       Have you ever been on a really clear deep lake and looked all the way to the bottom? On a smooth lake you can see much deeper than on a choppy lake. A finish is like that. the smoother it is the deeper the finish appears.. so get some shellac on, whatever way trips your trigger.  I like to brush it on because I've found a technique that works for me and I'm a complete clutz when it comes to brushing  (more if you ask) 

     OK once you have the shellac on now you need to sand..  before you sand look at the palm of your hand,, it's not  completely flat,  it has groves where your fingers join and  a little curve to it 
    Most of us have bumpy hands so don't ever use them to sand.. Instead always use a  sanding block or something flat, really flat! 

     Next start with 220 grit sand paper and sand only enough to get everything an even matt color.  Now if you could look at the finish thru a powerful microscope you'd notice what appear to be 10,000 foot peaks and valleys, we're going to sand off those peaks without touching the valley's so get your next grit (320) of sand paper  {and sanding block} and sand off 5000 ft of those mountains (don't touch the valley's )   Grab the 400 Grit and repeat, next the 800 grit etc.. quit when you get to the 4000 grit..

    Grabbing the steel wool won't flatten the finish.   The bumps will still remain high the low spots will remain low etc. 

     When you reach the 4000 grit stop and wax it,,

1. 
   user-83153 | Apr 11, 2007 01:49am | #4

   " Have you ever been on a really clear deep lake and looked all the way to the bottom? On a smooth lake you can see much deeper than on a choppy lake. A finish is like that"

     Great analogy Frenchy!

                      Rob

2. 
   [email protected] | Apr 11, 2007 07:43pm | #10

   Can you tell me about your technique for applying the shellac as I am going to try to put some on a Maple shelf/bookcase I made  this weekend.  I  have the Zinser sellac. 

    

   Thanks

    

   John

1. 
   frenchy | Apr 11, 2007 09:12pm | #13

   Johnny

    Is it the Zinssers bulls eye?  If so it's 3 pound cut, which means I add two gallons/quarts of denatured alcohol, (don't use anything else not paint thinner not lacquer thinner, just denatured alcohol.. to it.  to get it down to one pound cut..

    The other stuff is already cut to one pound and dewaxed.. that's fine for the first coat but I like the waxed stuff for my finish coat.. your mileage may vary, objects in the mirror etc.. ;-)

    I use a fine brush bigger than you think you need.. the whole excersise here is to put a lot of sehllac on in a great big hurry.

     I hope you aren't fastidous because this will drive you nuts if you are..

    

   There is a cardinal rule with shellac,, never go over anything twice! Don't dab, or pat, flood it on!

        Yep you'll have runs! That's why you thin it so much.. start on the top and flood it on.. don't go back to touch up anything,, jus' slop 'er on!

     If your brush isn't dripping, it's too dry!

    Now chase those runs down.  fast! you have moments before shellac starts to dry so flood it on and chase the runs down.. once everything is covered (if you missed a spot let it be!  DO NOT GO BACK OVER IT AGAIN!    

    Did I mention my appraoch is messy?  Nice results but messy! if it bothers you use newspapers under everything..

      It should dry in 15 minutes when it does run your hand over it. Feel those nubs?  Sand them off! (use 220 grit on a sanding block..   No don't try to make things perfect or anything just do a lick and a promise kinda sanding, more isn't better.  You're done when you can't feel any nubs.

    It should take you about 1 second per bd.ft. but please don't sand the corners of the boards.  too easy to sand thru to the bare wood!

    If you do just give those a little touch up and slap your fingers..

    when sanding, always use a sanding block..  

    I mean it, I'll flick boogers on your computer screen if you use your bare hands.. <G> 

    seriously though, use a sanding block!

         Now give it the second coat the second coat melts into the first  coat and "fixes" what you goofed on the first coat. Remember, never go back! (oh and flood it on with your dripping brush)   That should take about a 1/2 hour to dry. When dry feel for the nubs again if no nubs don't sand if you feel nubs sand just the nubs off..

     that coat will take an hour to dry and then you flood on the third coat..

      If you have all the grain covered, pores filled  don't add more.  If you need another coat to do that go ahead but that coat will take two hours to dry..

    When done color sand as I described earlier if you want perfection and a deep rich finish..

   Edited 4/11/2007 2:15 pm ET by frenchy

1. 
   [email protected] | Apr 11, 2007 09:44pm | #14

   Thanks & you were right it is Zinbzer Bull's eye

4. 
   pmmatty | Apr 11, 2007 02:02am | #5

   I have a small compressor based spray gun which I always use for shellac.  I find it to be alot faster and easier than brushing.  3 or 4 coats sanding lightly between coats and then I pad the last coat.  Gives you a beautiful smooth sheen finish. PMM

1. 
   frenchy | Apr 11, 2007 02:57am | #6

   pmmatty,

    I used to spray all my shellac.    Heck, I sprayed everything (including my toopaste

    ;-).    I'm such a clutz with a brush that I could never get a decent brush finish.

       Then one day I accidently dipped my brush into a already over thinned shellac finish and decided to quickly slopped some on.. (I really hate to call it brushing)  I knew there would be all sorts of brush marks runs etc.. but what the heck the brush now needed to be cleaned anyway so...

      When I came back to it a little later I noticed it had flowed out glass smooth!, no runs, no brush marks, no holidays, none of my usual messes.

     Plus now I didn't have to clean out the gun, coil back up the hose, tear down a temp spray booth,  etc..

    In other words I saved myself over a half hour of clean up!

    So I got brave and did another coat via brush, same slop it on technique of overthinned shellac.

     When I put on the third and final coat and I wound up with a smooth finish (not the really deep shine that you get from color sanding but smooth never-the-less. I was sold..

   Normally three coats requires a lot more time considering you never let a finish dry in a paint gun, Ever! Plus I don't keep my guns and hose handy they are stored away so there's a little more time involved and etc.. etc..

    The real time saver is not having to put up the temp spray booth. So I don't get overspray on all my tools, wood, and other stuff.

     Using overthinned shellac works just as well on vertical surfaces as horizontal surfaces.. it does require a flood it on approach which some people simply cannot do.

     (it goes against their nature and they feel like they are losing control, something that some people cannot ever accept) 

    If we were talking about finishes other than shellac I certainly understand.  You can't for example simply wipe off a polyurethane finish with a little denatured alcohol and start over, no harm no foul.   Sanding is always required and the result will clearly be less than perfect..

    Shellac however is so forgiving that such brutal tactics work and work well. 

    

    

1. 
   MikeK | Apr 11, 2007 07:51am | #8

   Frenchy,

   What cut of shellac do you use? Do you use a different cut for the 2nd or third coat?

1. 
   frenchy | Apr 11, 2007 07:54pm | #11

   MikeK

     I buy premixed shellac, It both saves me money and saves me time..Zinzzer is the brand I buy normally I use the Bulls eye which is a 3 pound cut  then I thin it to a 1 pound cut..

     My second and third coat are the same except I thin it slightly less. What I do is toss back into the pot any unused shellac and call it alcohol so it's not hyper critical to get exactly one pound cut each time.. by the time I do the third coat it's probably around 1 1/2 pound cut.. maybe more, maybe less.

    Shellac is very forgiving and it really doesn't matter if you are exact

2. 
   pmmatty | Apr 11, 2007 02:29pm | #9

   Goodmorning Frency:

   I'm glad you wrote me this morning as I was going to write you.  First, I must thank you.  You turned me on to shellac and I have been loving ever since.  I agree that spraying can be a pain but I have simplified it: use "critter: spray gun (minimal cleanup) and my spray booth is the front of my basement door with a fan blowing out.

    But there is a question here.  You described yesterday the process you use in sanding, or rubbing out.  Can you elaborate?  Do you sand after every coat or only after all coats or something in between?  After you sand, how do you apply the last coat to maintain the "flatness"?  Do you use wax, which in my experience dulls the finish from the nice sheen I get from padding the last coat?  I would love the help.

   Thanks.  Patrick Morris

1. 
   frenchy | Apr 11, 2007 08:44pm | #12

   patrick,

       Sanding, what I do is sand the first coat with 220.

    the first coat always raises the grain and leaves little nubs that must be sanded off if you want a great finish.

    when the second coat dries I run my hand over it to see if there are any nubs left that maybe I missed or were raised up or just wanted to be a pain in the butt  ;-)

       if so I give it another sanding..  You need to understand what I mean by sanding,, first it's not a grind it all away type sanding, more of a lick and a promise to do better the next time kind of sanding..  My simple rule of thumb is one second per board foot a second and a half if it's a smaller piece. Now be extremely carefull whenever you sand that you don't round over the edges..  So always use a sanding block and really don't sand corners at all..

    once you have three coats on you get to  sand the finish to a matt finish. any shiny spots indicate that it's not yet fully sanded, any bare spots mean you went too far,, just put the three coats back on and if some has six coats so what they are thin coats..

    Now I use three coats as a guide line, but sometimes it takes more than that to fill in all the pores, grain,   etc..  what you want is to be able to sand to a nice uniform matt finish without hitting bare wood..

     Once you've achieved your matt finish sand with ever finer grit paper untill you hit about 4000 I've on rare occasions gone beyond 4000 but then I'm anal and what the heck ;-)

      When I wax I do a poor immatation of french polish,, not nearly the arm/wrist effort that real french polishing calls for but more than a wipe it on, wipe it off approach. 

    Please note that I rarely wax, only when there is a real need for wax protection.    

    

    

5. 
   JMadson | Apr 11, 2007 04:48am | #7

   Post a picture if you get a chance.

   I love to see other's work.

   “The richest genius, like the most fertile soil, when uncultivated, shoots up into the rankest weeds..” – Hume