Replies

1. 
   Napie | Dec 16, 2007 08:45am | #1

   It is called “French fitted” and is typically done with a softwood insert in the case that has the outline of the item traced and cut out then covered with felt.  BTW, the Springfield Trapdoor is not a musket; it is a rifle or a carbine, depending on the length of the barrel.

1. 
   forestgirl | Dec 16, 2007 09:24am | #2

   My bad on the musket thing, whaddaIknow.  I think it's what they called a Cadet version, have the serial number but haven't looked it up yet.  Nice gun as guns go, but not as pretty as the Henry he used to have.  Darn those lean years!  He had to sell it!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

2. 
   joinerswork | Dec 17, 2007 07:00pm | #3

   FG,

   There is a book, Steel Canvas, by R.L. Wilson, Chartwell books, Inc.  If you can find a copy (got mine at Barnes and Noble, on riscount,) or maybe your library can get you a copy to look at.  There are many examples therein of cased pistols and rifles from which you can get some ideas.  The precise cutting of the recesses for the gun and its accessories, then covering of the interior with cloth, "French fitting" is, I expect, an art in itself.  But you've done shadowboxes right? Some cases are more elaborate than others.

   Good luck,

   Ray 

3. 
   EdHarrow | Dec 18, 2007 06:39am | #4

   Not exactly on point, but funny.  I have 'Uncle Dick's' Trapdoor 45-70 Springfield (I guess he's my great Uncle as he was Uncle Dick to my father.)  When Dad was still young and impressionable, he and his friends got the bright idea of shooting the thing.  The fact that they lived in a rather built up area did cross their mind, so they decided to turn the basement of Dad's house into a shooting range.  For the bullet stop they lined up a bunch of ash barrels.  Full ash barrels.  The thing is a might heavy for the average 8 year old, but no one was willing to hold the front end.  What to do?  They tied it to a lally column.  Next problem; they were scared to death to pull the trigger.  Solved that with some string.  Tied one end to the trigger, and they went behind the partition to the coal bin.

   BOOM!!!!!  I still laugh when I think about the mess.  I forget how many ash barrels they had lined up, but when the dust settled about three days later, they were all empty. 

1. 
   forestgirl | Dec 18, 2007 08:35pm | #5

   Pretty funny!  Great Uncle Dick must have had some of the original ammunition.  Hubby got ammo for it and another oldster rifle last fall for his birthday.  Son can't wait to go and and fire the two guns.  He's really enchanted with them (30+ years old, like father, like son).forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

2. 
   mwenz | Dec 19, 2007 07:40pm | #7

   Not really on topic either but your story reminded me once again of a more benign time with my oldest who is now 32 (for another month).

   View Image

   Ah, the sweet days...

   Take care, Mike

1. 
   Joe Sullivan | Dec 20, 2007 07:02am | #8

   Great picture, Mike. My two boys both enjoy shooting. The younger just turned 10. Back a couple of months before his birthday we were in a box canyon with clanger targets and big rocks measured out to about 600 yards. The little guy was happily banging away with a .22 against a clanger, but wanted a chance with the .308 we were using for long range stuff. We had some misgivings, but when he pulled the trigger and heard the report he was elated and wanted to shoot more.Joe

4. 
   BobSmalser | Dec 18, 2007 08:46pm | #6

   Personally, I wouldn't french fit that case, but construct a replica of the shipping crates the rifles originally came in scaled down to your rifle. I might even make simple rope handles and stencil "US Army" on it. You could easily construct it to open from the top if you wanted to use it as part of a wall display. Be sure to leave room for a compartment for the bayonet and other accouterments, as if you don't have one yet you probably will eventually. Original leather slings and ammo boxes can be found for these, too.

   French-fitted cases were made for fancier firearms, and although your Springfield is exceptionally well made, it's more utilitarian and would look better in a utilitarian case.

1. 
   forestgirl | Dec 22, 2007 06:27am | #11

   Thanks, Bob, seems like this opens the door for several gifts for step-son over the next year or so.  I got him a soft case for now, per my hubby's instructions.  It would be fun to build an "authentic" case and beat it up just a little bit.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

2. 
   danmart | Dec 31, 2007 01:35am | #12

   Hi Bob

   I do a bunch of blackpowder target shooting almost year round really. I have built a bunch of cases: fancy to plain. I like utility and good protection for rifles that are bouncing around in the back of vehicles going to shoots.

   I have done a few with wood and cloth to set the rifle in and look good -- but they would rattle and I had to put rags and things to hold them dead still if I was moving out.

   Solution: I build a box much like the earlier photo. I waxed the rifle in the attached photo end to end and put a plug in the barrel. Put the rifle in the box just the way I wanted it, put the cans/powder horns in their place. Closed the case and drilled some holes. I then injected "low expansion foam from the cans -- the stuff used to seal leaks in the house. Open the box and cut away the extra junk and you have a case you could drop, kick, leave out overnight in some really bad weather and that rifle is going to be OK in the morning -- even if your head hurts a little and you need some coffee your rifle is right for the next event.

   Its inexpensive, quick and strong.  Everytime some new guy sees mine they say: its ugly as sin but could you make one for me?

   dan

   Edited 12/30/2007 5:45 pm ET by danmart

   
1. 
   forestgirl | Dec 31, 2007 03:20am | #13

   Pretty rifle, but I want to see the ugly case, LOL!!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

1. 
   slo | Dec 31, 2007 09:51am | #14

   This reminded me of a finish I saw on a muzzle loader the stock was curly maple and an acid was used on it then a light sanding the acid turned the wood black and after light sanding it only remained in the soft area between ripples another stain was applied and then finish it had a great depth to the curl and I have wondered what acid was used? I wondered if anyone knew or had an idea on it.

1. 
   danmart | Dec 31, 2007 06:05pm | #17

    

   This reminded me of a finish I saw on a muzzle loader the stock was curly maple and an acid was used on it then a light sanding the acid turned the wood black and after light sanding it only remained in the soft area between ripples another stain was applied and then finish it had a great depth to the curl and I have wondered what acid was used? I wondered if anyone knew or had an idea on it.

    This request was posted to forestgirl about a photo?? I think the photo you are referring to is the halfstock hawken in the danmart post?? If not ignore this summary.

   The coloring technique for rifles made of maple in the 18th century was called Aqua Fortis. Today builders know it as Nitric Acid. There is a formula for the NA mix that is still widely used on curly maple stocks. As you stated above, it imparts a depth and color that is difficult to duplicate with dyes. You can get really close and the ease of dyes makes it a good substitute for the work involved with using Nitric.

   The rifle in the photo is Nitric Acid. I neutralized it and used some green water dye to take out some of the red then applied a bold yellow to give it a softer hue before sealing it with shellac and applying several coats of waterlox and rubbing. The rifle in the photo is 10-12 years old and shot more times than I can count. Never been refinished. You can see some of the light wood on the cheek piece where it has worn thru over years of shooting.

   If you want to do this let me know and I will send you detailed instructions with very accurate instructions. Here is a general run down. Remember this is acid be careful.

   Aqua Fortis/Nitric Process:

   1. Nitric(1 part) water (3) in a large glass jar. Note: add the Acid to the Water. Remember the alphabet rule: A before W.

   2. Take the mixture(you are outside) and add old nails or rusted bolts- I use iron filings from a milling machine or filings from a shop that resurfaces brake rotors or drums. I found the powder reacts with the mix very quickly. Add slowly or you will have a muddy mixture. Now you have a ferric nitrate.

   3. After the mixture has settled down, you can apply it with gloves on. It will turn the maple an ugly greenish black.

   4. When the acid dries, take the stock to a large electric burner on the stove and hold it about 2" over the heat source and pass it over... magic. The color begins to turn to a nice brownish red and the stripes will begin to jump out and the contrast with the hard lighter wood. You essentially oxidized the stock. If the color isn't strong enough repeat. You can also make a new solution. Start over.

   5. Now you neutralize the acid in the wood. A strong baking soda works well.

   Well my friend you know how its done and you have to ask yourself: Is this worth it? Unless you want to build an authentic rifle from end to end, I would go with the dyes. Its safer and easier.

   I did these rifles with Nitric because there was no carving(raised by the water base in the solution) and the stock was from the root of a maple tree I dug out of the ground. I wanted it to be special and I wanted to tell my rifle friends I went "all the way" with the building.

   A couple photos of the results on longrifles.

   halfstock by me

   kentucky carved- gary brumfield at Colonial Williamsburg

   I imagine this will stir up a discussion but that's that short version. That's the acid and maple story.

   danmart

    

    

   
2. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Dec 31, 2007 06:27pm | #20

   I believe that it's nitric acid (diluted) and sometimes iron filings or fine steel wool is used in the diluted solution to add color.

   Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres

    

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

2. 
   danmart | Dec 31, 2007 05:17pm | #15

   You know its pretty funny when you get a request for a photo of a  box filled with expanding foam. I never thought of taking a picture of the rifles next to that ugly thing. If I had it in front of me I would take a digital and fire it off to you.

   You see I made 2 of these rifles in Oct/Nov for some young shooters. One of the fathers insisted on having my case and paid $$ for it.

   I will be making another soon and promise to send a photo. If you are in a rush, just look at the other case on this thread and imagine an impression being formed around the rifle in the cavity formed by the space built to store the rifle.

   Really the reason for the foam is that you can cut the foam so easily to get rid of the sprues that form around the stock that you don't need.

   Important note! Grease every inch of that rifle buttplate to muzzle and PLUG the barrel. The rifle will slip right out of the foam - then you can trim to your liking.

   When I get some birch ply, I am going to make another one for my half stock and just make an empty one for a longrifle. I will post a photo to you-- not the Gallery. Ha

   osl

   Edited 12/31/2007 10:07 am ET by danmart

2. 
   joinerswork | Dec 31, 2007 05:27pm | #16

   Hey dan,

   Never saw a muzzleloader with an electric cord coming out the buttplate before.  That thing got one of them newfangled electric ignition systems like Knight, or Remington came out with a few yrs back?  Must need a loooong extension to reach way out into the woods huh?  Bet ya got a spotlight fits onto the muzzlecap's piccatinney rail, too...

   Ray

1. 
   danmart | Dec 31, 2007 06:20pm | #19

   I should have known one of those Virginians would catch me with my finger warming Rube Goldberg system. I plug it in at night and warm the stock up. I have a small light on the aft end of the front sight that lets me know how my battery is holding up. Its the old NiCd type. I want to get the Makita or the Hitachi -- but they have  blinking lights and that distracts me. If I leave the hammer down it doesn't drain quite so fast.

   My wife is wondering if the stored heat system will touch off that 3 f powder?? I don't know I told her but my hands feel good.

   Really, haven't had any reason to use my Knucklehead Heating plug in this year. It has been soooo warm here on the Piedmont. It was 72degrees on Saturday. Today was the last day to find that buck and I didn't see him. I think he's around 6 years old now. Handsome deer(8 fat points/160-170lbs). Don't think anybody but me has tracked him(private farm). Maybe next year.

3. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Dec 31, 2007 06:10pm | #18

   Dan,

   Nice, I never saw a double barrel one B4!  Oooops, it's the shadow.  Sorry. :-)

   Next time show Ray the battery powered one!

   Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres

    

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

4. 
   Dave45 | Dec 31, 2007 06:44pm | #21

   Now, why didn't I think of that!!?? - lol

   I've had two black powder pistols for many years and have always wanted to make some kind of case for them, but could never come up with a way to do a form fitted interior.  Maybe low expansion foam is just the ticket.

   I'm goofing off for a few more days so I may throw together a mockup later today.  I'm thinking that some felt and spray adhesive may work to deal with the appearance issue.

   Either way, it's something to do. - lol

1. 
   danmart | Dec 31, 2007 11:56pm | #22

   Give it a try its cheap. My thoughts on a pistol would be build 2 cheap experiment boxes. Build one to hold only pistol A. Build another to hold A and B and see if it suits you. With a pistol plan, you can probably do it with a can. I would buy 2 just in case you need a little extra.

   Good Luck

1. 
   Dave45 | Jan 01, 2008 03:14am | #23

   Unfortunately, real work reared it's ugly head.  Shortly after I made that post, I heard from a customer who has accepted my bid for over $10k worth of cabinets.

   I'm afraid that making a neat box for a pistol will have to wait for a while longer.   Playing with new ideas is fun, but I've also become addicted to eating regularly. - lol

2. 
   danmart | Jan 01, 2008 03:33am | #24

   Amen to that bro. Nice thing about pistols and kentucky rifles is they don't take up a bunch of space.

   a photo of one that went out to somebody.

   
5. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Dec 21, 2007 10:37pm | #9

   Hey forestgirl,

   Here's and idea for ya: http://www.artisansofthevalley.com/cp/cp_bx_riflecase_l.jpg

   Regards,

   Bob @ Kidderville Acres

    

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

1. 
   forestgirl | Dec 22, 2007 06:25am | #10

   That's pretty cool!  I like Bob Smalser's idea too.  Hubby wanted to just get son a soft case for now, so I bought that as my Christmas present to him.  I'll prod for information at their gathering on Tuesday, see if he has any desire to display it downstairs in the family room or what.  I can always build a case for his birthday, which is about 6 months off.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)