Hello All,
I am about to build a new workshop in my backyard. I have to keep it less than 240 square feet. I am trying to decide between two designs. One is 15’ by 15’. The second is 12’ x 20’. I have never had a real workshop, so I am not sure if either design would be better for setting up a woodworking workshop. It may not really matter. But, I would like to know if anyone feels strongly towards one or the other.
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Thanks,
Kevin
Replies
Why do you leave round out of consideration? :)
Although I've never thought about it in those terms, I have to admit it's a good question for a small shop like you're building. My hip shot answer is that the usual flow of work across machines leads me to think rectangular would be better. Wood tends to come in long pieces and running them past a saw or through a planer requires a space twice their length. Fifteen feet is too short for a sheet of plywood or a typical 2X4; twenty is none too much. On the other hand, if you are never going to do that kind of machine work, I suppose that a square shop might lend itself to other kinds of work -- though I'm having a tough time conjuring them up.
Verne
If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to cut it up and make something with it . . . what a waste!
I remember reading about a round shop once. It was designed around (pardon the pun) a central column supporting the peaked roof. Around the outside of the column and the inside of the wall, he rigged up a track. A beam spanned the two tracks and had a hoist bolted to it and with it, he could move anything to anywhere.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com(soon to be http://www.flairwoodworks.com)
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
I'd go with the 15'x15' I had a 12'x 20' shop an it was hard to get around my contractor table saw with the 30" extension table. I had double door at one end and it let me spill out to the back yard.
Your post sounds just like mine!Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com(soon to be http://www.flairwoodworks.com)
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
I'd go along with both of you if I were building in a place with reasonble weather, but I don't know where Kevin is. The shop Frank Klausz grew up in had a separate machine room where long boards were fed into the saw through one window and out another, so it can be done -- especially if you design for it. But, I still think longer is better, and in a small shop, I'd rather try to get along with a smaller saw table. After all, the advantage of a 50" fence is in cutting sheet stock which is usually eight feet long, but only four wide. If you need the extra-wide saw capacity for cutting a 4X8 panel crosswise, aren't you better off with the saw turned sideways in a 12X20 shop anyway? I guess the answer I'm working toward is that in a small shop you're better off with the length when you need it and a saw with wheels on it so you can orient it to fit the work. Verne
If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to cut it up and make something with it . . . what a waste!<!----><!----><!---->
Verne,I suppose that it depends on the length of stock you work with. I don't normally see any boards longer than 6 feet. I also treat my small shop like a big shop. Everything pretty much stays put. The table saw is on wheels and is only moved when I need more outfeed room or access to the router table in the wing.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com(soon to be http://www.flairwoodworks.com)
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Roger that. It all depends on how you work and what you work with. Just trying to cover all the bases -- of course it's that kind of thinking that keeps me from making up my mind and getting on with things. Verne
If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to cut it up and make something with it . . . what a waste!<!----><!----><!---->
Kevin,
My machine shop is about 12'x20'. My 10" contractor saw with a 30" rip fence is positioned cross wise, so that feed is from end to end. I find it is a little tight to move around it. If you have a 50" rip fence, you might be in trouble. Make scale cutouts of all your tools (use 1/8" hardboard if you feel enthusiastic and position them and see how much room you have to move around. I would like to have a wider shop. But then again, I will always want a bigger shop. I am ever grateful for my pair of 7'x3.5' barn doors facing south. They open up into my level back yard so I can work out there when it's nice.
Chris @ www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
(soon to be www.flairwoodworks.com)
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
I am sitting here with architects suggestion for a shop that is 16,4 x 19,7 feet. That's 323 sq.feet which is my maximum.
My only concern is: is it big enough?
I need space for all the common machines and a good traditional workbench. I don't use sheet goods and I can't really see myself working with boards longer than say 8 feet.
Geir
Ås, Norway
Geir,That space may well be all you need. Organize your machines within the space and focus on workflow and common heights. Of course, it always helps to keep junk from the house out of the shop. My shop is basically square, and 425 sqft, with a wall running down the center. Without that wall, I'd be really happy with the space. Your shop will have a nice open floor plan. Think through dust collection and electricity before the build. You may consider running ducts through the floor or building a separate "room" for the dust collector and air compressor to keep noise down.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com(soon to be http://www.flairwoodworks.com)
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
In planning mine I considered future resale value of the property, so I designed it basically as a one car garage. I figured the next owner might want to work on cars, boats, or something else besides woodworking.
Kevin,
I'd go with the 12 X 20. The biggest problem with sheds is the soon-used-up wall space, which, in turn, leads to more clutter on the floor. The 12 X20 will get you an extra 4' of wall space, (64' vs. 60') and will give you 2 nice long 20' walls which will let you hang, for example a 16' extension ladder or lengths of lumber. Also, the 12 X 20 will be cheaper to build because building materials come in 4-foot increments. The 15 X 15 size will end up wasting a great deal of material.
Three other design features that I used on my smaller (10 X12) shed:
Make the ceiling space as high and as open as possible for building lofts and/or hanging stuff up there. You'll be amazed at what a difference this makes in keeping the floor space uncluttered. The high, open ceiling is not possible if you use trusses to suppport the roof. Instead, use a ridge beam than is supported at each end, which then lets you use roof joists, rather than roof rafters. Joists need only be supported at the ridge and at the top plate of the wall--the top support of the ridge beam prevents them from spreading outward: thus, no need for collar ties or other horizontal obstructions. If you can't find or afford the ridge beam needed to span the full 20 feet, you could set a mid-post under it to break the span into two 10-foot sections. Check first with your local building inspector to determine the beam size(s) based on you snow load and roof pitch.
The second feature I'd recommend is to locate the entry door on the 12' end, but don't center it in the wall. Instead, visualize a nice long workbench along, say, the left wall, with windows for natural light. This workbench will be about 2 feet wide. Place the left side of your door about even with the front edge of the workbench. This arrangement lets your door open into the walkway/standing space that your shed needs, and lets all the space on the right side become available for other stuff like lawnmower, wheelbarrow, etc.
Third, except for the window above your workbench, have no other windows that will eat up your valuable wall space. Instead, use skylights in the roof. They give better light than windows anyway because there's no glare from slanting light.
Great post. Sounds like you've put a lot of thought into workshop design already.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com(soon to be http://www.flairwoodworks.com)
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Thanks for all the feedback!!That gives me a lot to think about. I will have to draw something in sketchup and repost.Thanks again!
Kevin
Why are you limited to 240 ft sq?
That is tiny, but perhaps would be ok if it was 4 stories high with an elevator.A lot depends of windows and doors because no shop can have ENOUGH WALL SPACE.You need to somehow get around the 240 limitation and build bigger.
Well, there are a few reasons I am limited to 240. First, I live in a neighborhood and only have a 1/3 acre lot (which is spacious for inside the DC beltway). So, I really can not fit anything bigger than that in the back corner of my lot. Second, the back corner of my lot is on a slight hill (probably a 3 foot slope over 15 feet). If I build less than 240 square feet, then I do not need to pour a foundation. I am guessing that will save me a lot of time and money. <!----><!----><!---->
But, I have not figured that one out yet either. Should I take the time and money to level out the ground and pour a foundation and concrete slab? Or build a suspended wooden floor on piers? I know the concrete slab would be stronger. But, it will be a small shop and I will not be filling it with extremely large and heavy tools.<!----><!---->
Any feedback on your experiences would be appreciated.<!----><!---->
Thanks,Kevin<!----><!---->
I used to teach WW-in in an old shop built in the 1800's. Cool place. Wooden building reminicient of the shop at Williamsburg.
My current shop is a smallish one-car garage. Although it would be nicer to have more space, the one thing I really miss is the wooden floor of that old shop.
Given a choice, a wooden floor would be near the top of my wish list for a shop. Of course, that would introduce all sorts of construction problems, but all can be dealt with using proper construction techniques to handle insulation and moisture.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Kevin,
Probably the reason for the 240 sq. ft. limitation is based on the IRC (International Residential Code), which is likely the code being used in your area. Anything over 240 sq.ft. is treated under more restrictive rules, and requires a building permit. Be aware of the fact that, although you might not be required to have a building permit, this will not exempt you from other requirements in your jurisdiction--zoning rules that limit heights, proximity to lot lines, etc. Ignoring any of these things may well cause you trouble down the road, and the most likely source of complaint will be from neighbors that call the zoning or building department to question your project. People can be petty, which is a pain, but it's really a pain when they have the law on their side.
Regarding the floor options: it appears you'll be using this mostly for woodworking (my all-consuming hobby as well), so I would recommend installing a suspended wood floor. "Suspended" would simply mean setting leveled concrete support bases(the kind sold at Home Depot, Lowe's, etc.), and then building the floor frame on that. You would then cover the frame with screwed-down plywood or floor-grade wafer wood. This gives you the advantage of under-foot comfort compared to concrete, and, more importantly, the option of opening up the floor as needed to add electrical wiring, dust collection, or stash all the money you'll have left over at the end of your project.
As you can imagine, this arrangement will not be securely anchored to the ground, so you would need to figure something out to keep it from blowing away. You could use a posthole digger at the corners to pour a small concrete column, into which you would set a steel post base that would form a support for the floor frame--the columns need not be set right at the corners, only near them, so that the column is not under intersecting perimeter framing.
With the sloping lot, you may want to give added consideration to drainage - around, not through, your shop. Building a retaining wall, with integrated drainage in an inverted U shape, may give you some extra room and avoid water flow issues. As others have suggested, you'll want to check with both your local building department AND your homeowner's association for restrictions that they will impose. There are also real estate tax issues to consider. "Sheds" or "outbuildings" are often assessed/taxed at different rates than other structures, and there may be size limitations imposed in that connection, as well. Thus, overall size considerations need to balance all of these factors, not to mention associated costs.With respect to lighting, I like the idea of skylights, as opposed to conventional wall windows, too. But, skylights eventually leak. So, that's another consideration. Plus, if you use any sort of overhead storage, the skylights may be blocked, anyway. Another thought along those lines is to use long, narrow windows near the ceiling line as a passive source of solar heating during winter months, depending on the orientation of the building. Placement in relation to the roof overhang lets winter sun in, but blocks summer sun. Window selection and placement also contributes to ventilation, something that may be important during summer months.
Kevin-
Right now I have a 12' X 22' shop. I am in the process of adding adjacent space to create a 23' X 22' area. When I first had the shop I was dealing with a 7' ceiling. That height was raised to 10' by converting the low ceiling to elevated collar beams and a limited storage area above that I use primarily as storage for roughed out turned bowls as they dry. The height was more important than square footage to me. I tried to cut 4' X 8' panels on my table saw but gave that up after a full sheet came flying back at me with full force one time. I now use a low work assembly table that assembles in one minute to cut the unwieldy stuff. The same goes for long boards. While I have a chopsaw against one wall I find it easier to go to the assembly table instead. My table saw is midway on the long side of the shop. In desperation I can open my shop door to accommodate a really long board that can't be cut. A window at the other end accepts the after cut board length. I have only resorted to this once as I was building a pergola and needed to mill the corners of 12' long 6" X 6" posts.I kept all my storage cabinets and shelving at least 4' up from the
floor giving me maximum material movement capability at working level whether it be table saw, band saw, drill press, etc. My 3' X 6' workbench is the elephant in the room. I keep this along one long wall about 16" away from the wall so I can get behind it if I need to.In my work I reduce the material in size and then perform the work on it. About half of what I do is woodturning that doesn't require a lot of space. If push came to shove I could probably get by on a length of less than 20' but that would be a challenge. If what you want to do is accommodated by a 15 foot square shop then good. Possibly you live in a warm climate where you can do some work outside year round for the long stuff. I don't have that luxury in the upstate NY mountains.Longer is better!(:-)
Windy Wood
In the Helderberg Mountains of NY
It is this simple Kevin.
My degree is in Structural Engineering.
Building properly costs more upfront, but once built, maintenance costs are lower which makes the long term effective costs LOWER.Level the ground, put in a SOLID base, and BUILD as BIG as the LOT will allow. Most people dont understand that going from 240 sq ft to say 360 sq ft doesnt raise the COSTS 50%. It will be more like 30%.Another option is storage SHEDS.
Are they available in your area.
Some in Central PA are 12 x 24.
They can be sety on a slab or raised timbers.As for size and woodworkers, bigger is BETTER.
When I built my shop building in 1996, at the last moment I changed from 36 x 58 - 8 to 40 x 58-8.
The reason it wasnt 60 feet deep was I didnt think the I-Joist I used for the long rafter would give me 12" overhang on the back, So I stopped 1 block short. NOW I wished I had went that extra 16" and scabbed on for the overhang if NEED be.THOSE 16 extra inches would help me a ton.
That would be another 200 oak boards I could store.
And I bet it would not have cost more than 500 clams.
If only I had a 15 X 15 square foot workshop whatever shape! Ok so that is 225?
If I had that I 'could live with it'..' Maybe something to think about is the height allowed. Storage above?
Kevin,
You are engaged in one of the most enjoyable parts of woodworking (or any other craft, for that matter). Enjoy!
As has already been mentioned and my thoughts:
I would do a scale dwg of both sizes, layout scale machines, look at tool space req's and workflow. Use skylights, not windows, because wall space is invaluable. Plan on some kind of flooring-at the end of the day on concrete you feel like you have beaten with sticks. I would also cover the interior walls and the rafters with some paneling that can be painted (and repainted) with flat white paint for optimum lighting. This panel should be thick enough and strong enough to allow installation of light duty tool racks, and mark where the studs are for installation of heavier shelving. Storage in the rafters can be had by drop panels.
Yes, I am speaking from experience, as the other posters also are.
Pete
I'd suggest an elliptical octagonal shape. The inspector might not know how to calculate the area, so you might be able to squeeze 300, perhaps 350 square feet without getting nailed. ;-)
How about a complete change in your approach to this question?
Instead of thinking about the walls, think about how you would like your shop to be laid out. Start with a blank piece of paper and imagine each step in one of your "typical" projects - beginning with bringing in the sheet goods and/or lumber.
How will you get the materials into the shop? Where will you store them? How will they be moved around in the shop as you do all of the cutting, milling, sanding, assembly, staining, finishing, etc. How will you get the finished pieces out? (Remember the old boat in the shed gag? - lol)
As you do this, you'll begin laying out locations for your tools, benches, wood storage, shelving, dust collection, etc. based on the kind of projects you do, your particular work habits, and can even be influenced by whether you're right, or left, handed. (Last year, I helped my left handed SIL and right handed daughter with a project and it was almost comical. He had little woodworking experience, but was very comfortable. She was like a fish out of water. - lol)
When you're done with the imaginary shop, draw a box around it and see if it's rectangular or square. It will probably be much larger than 240 sq ft (perhaps several acres), but the rest is just a matter of scaling. - lol
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