I’ve got a series 3 Minimax slider, which I just love to bits, but I’ve been playing with the setting of the 90 degree extension arm on the sliding table and always seem to have to mess around getting it set back to exactly 90 degrees. Do any of the slider guys have a quick and easy way of doing this?
By the way – I know there’s a Minimax discussion group, but its a Yahoo-provided service and I hate the ads and the complicated entry route, hence I’m asking good old reliable and friendly Knots
Malcolm
New Zealand | New Thinking
Replies
There's the 12345 method of making 5 cuts while you rotate the stock in the same direction and measure on the 5th cut and split the difference. My favorite is to take a half sheet of sheetstock and rip it parallel then make a cut on the slider and flip the sheet right to left and make another cut and measure the sheet across the top edge and bottom edge. If the sheet is off by 1/16" then you move the fence 1/32". Either way works and uses a minumum amount of stock. The bigger the sheet the more accururate the measurement. I used to go in to set up panel saws and guys would leave me a 12" square of material to use. They just didn't understand how innaccurate that would be.
Great Rick, thanks.
Thinking about this after I posted - is there also a method that relies on the slider? If for example I was able to index the extension arm accurately to the edge of the sliding table, would that work?
I'd need a very large accurate square.
And (2nd thoughts) I'd still have to test for true squarness - so why not cut to the chase and use your method? Thanks again, I'll do it!
Malcolm
New Zealand | New Thinking
Edited 1/16/2005 6:37 pm ET by kiwimac
You are correct...cut right to the chase. Using a test piece is the simplest way. You only need a tape measure to check. Don't forget to check diagonals. I like the rip and flip method as it's easy to keep things simple.
Mac,
I have the same problem with my MiniMax - today, I plan on drilling and tapping a small block onto the underside of the sliding table, which I'll set as the zero reference.
The sliding table adjustment is a pain. Mine more so than yours because I have the fence behind the stock, so I have to remove it for all rip cuts longer than 4' (I believe that your sliding table fence precedes the stock as the cut is made)
To square up the table, use the five-side cut that was discussed by Rick - it's the way wood machinists are trained to set up for square.
Cheers,
eddie
I've been mulling this over. The rip and flip method also works for mitre and other saws, and is tried and true, so I'll use that.
But I can't help thinking there must be a way that relies on the slide running absolutlely parallel to the blade. If I were to true up a large steel carpenter's square, and then index one arm of the square to the edge of the slide, adjacent to the blade, it should be a simple matter then to use the grub screw adjustment to set the extension arm square. Certainly within woodworking tolerances.
I'll do some experimenting. How is your bolt-on going to work?
Yes, I use the extension arm in front of the stock, although it is possible to use it as a pusher. Something else I'm going to experiment with.New Zealand | New Thinking
Hi Mac,Slowly.I just used the blade and a set of feeler gauges to measure the toe out of the slider to the blade - 0.003" over 10"I'll let you know how I get on.Cheers,eddie
Hi eddie
I don't understand, but that may be because it's late!
Or (I can hear you say) because I'm a kiwi*
How can the distance from the sliding table to the blade vary? The slider rides in two channels, the blade is fixed. So, as one passes the other, the distance between them must be constant, right?
That's why I think indexing the 90 degree extension arm to the edge of the slider may be a viable alternative to rip and flip.
Why wouldn't that work?
M
* note for our international friends - there's a long and sometimes not very friendly rivalry between aussies and New Zealanders (kiwis). A past NZ prime minister once said (and I just love this line - I've quoted it here before) that evey time a New Zealander migrates to Australia, the IQ of both countries rises. You beaut, Rob!New Zealand | New Thinking
My training is as a Wood Machinist/Technician/Furniture Maker. The most common way of doing a slider is the 12345 and the rip and flip method is another viable option. Both methods are tried and true! I show a lot of guys both ways and for some reason the rip and flip method seems easier for most to grasp. Why would you want to make a simple process more complicated and less accurate with the 90 degree arm???? It only takes a short time to square up a panel saw and the simplicity of just using a tape measure can't be beat. Far more accurate than any square.
1. Trim the edge of 1/2 sheet of MDF or whatever on the slider. I like MDF because you can read the cut of blade. Heeling or toe in to be exact. On a beam saw where you can't get an indicator to the blade, the MDF allows us to adjust the blade for optimum cutting. The idea is to have front and back tooth marks on both pieces of the kerf to indicate blade is perfectly centered.
2. Rip to 48" or parallel. Measure to male sure edges are parallel.
3. Rotate stock 90 degrees and trim right edge on slider.
4. Flip stock right to left and trim right edge on slider.
5 Check diagonals. Measure across the top and bottom. If the difference is 1/16" then move the crosscut fence 1/32" in the appropriate direction.
6. Repeat steps 3,4,5! Possible problems could be caused by a bent crosscut fence so use a good straight edge to check this first.
Thanks Rick, I will do that.
I guess I'm also wondering whether there is an approach that avoids the necessity to slice pieces off a half sheet of MDF. It's tempting to hope that once the saw is set up bang-on, it can be returned to that setting easily and quickly without having to throw a sheet of board around.
In theory a Minimax can be set up so that the arm does return to a pre-set position, but in practice I've found that small errors can creep in.
So I guess it's rip and flip. Thanks again
MalcolmNew Zealand | New Thinking
I have a client with an SC3 minimax panel saw that had a problem with returning the crosscut fence to square and the problem was the repeat stop wasn't out far enough on the crosscut arm to be effective. I made another one that was at the end of the arm and it solved the problem. Actually I made two of them, one of each whether they set the crosscut fence in the front or back position and it's on a wingnut so it can be swung out of the way. I'll try to snap a picture of it. Really simple to make.
Thanks
Photo appreciated. I'll look at mine again tonight. It's at the outer edge of the sliding table extension, but that's only part way out the length of the cross-cut fence, as you say.
To return briefly to what I've been worrying away at: when you set up a thicknesser, you use a guide, right? If you're carefull, you can get the knives spot on each time, quite quickly. I'm casting around looking for a slider's equivalent. Something I can drop on the table, bang the fence up against, lock and forget!
It seems I'm dreaming.
Malcolm
New Zealand | New Thinking
Hi Mac,I'm not Rick, but if there was an easy way to check for square, the trade machinists would be using it. The five sided cut is the way to go, in my opinion.As I said, if the fence is just a bit out, you won't notice until it's too late.Cheers,eddie
Eddie, the five sided method and rip and flip are virtually the same and it doesn't get any easier than that. Any large carcass is typically done with a tape measure and diagonals. Can't imagine the cost, not to mention trying to lug around a giant square, not to mention checking it all the time for accuracy. My set up tools never get used by anyone but me. I get nervous when I watch some guys and how they take care of their tools. Got a Paolini 8' slider to set up in a week or so.
Hi Rick,Agree, we're singing the same song, but to two different melodies.Good luck with the setup.Cheers,eddie
This is what I made to reposition the fence for repeatability. Once set it seems to do the job fine. It's in a school so you can imagine what that is like...opertator error is rampant but this seems to have taken care of it for the most part. They are always taking the fence off the saw for ripping and this device swings out of the way and can be repositioned quickly for accurate crosscuts. The wingnut lets it drop put of the way. I also put one on the outboard side of the carriage if they decide to use the fence that way which gives the a wider crosscut span. The new Paolini should be in a week or so.
Hi Mac,Like the quote - Use a five sided cut or the 'rip and flip' cut to check for square - what matters is what the saw produces, not an indication off a square - the five sided cut gives the cumulative error over 1-2m, setting off a square gives error over only 0.3mRick's articulated things well in his post - as I said, our wood machinists are trained to this technique.Re: 'toe out' - it must be the manufacturer's acceptable tolerance, as I had Gabbett overhaul the saw - makes sense that the slider's travelling parallel to the blade.Cheers,eddie
Eddie
re: 'toe out' - it must be the manufacturer's acceptable tolerance, as I had Gabbett overhaul the saw - makes sense that the slider's travelling parallel to the blade.
From the Altendorf manual -
'The sliding table does not run exactly parrallel to the sawblade. It runs away from the back teeth by a fraction of a millimetre. This is called free cut.'
It then goes on to explain the reasoning which relates to blade flutter at the back of the blade causing chip out on the top surface, & recommending .05mm over 1 metre.
I think it is important to do the checks in order ie:
1 Sub rollers
2 Free cut left (Sliding table)
3 Free cut right (Fence)
4 Square cut (What you guys have been discussing)
5 Scorring blade
Don
> The sliding table does not run exactly parrallel to the sawblade. It runs away from the back teeth by a fraction of a millimetre. This is called free cut <
Don! This gets more complicated by the day. My SC3 has the blade exactly (within the tolerances I can measure) parallel to the sliding table, and it cuts equally cleanly either side of the blade (whether using the slide on the left or ripping against the fence to the right of the blade).
As an aside, I square up the edges of boards using a shooting board (don't currently have a jointer in my shop), and I've always used a small shooting board for very small (less than 150mm) pieces of wood anyway, because I don't like putting them over a jointer. Recently I've been dimensioning and squaring-up using the right-side rip fence and a beautiful Freud blade reserved for that work, and I've been really impressed with the results. The pieces in the attached panel were glued up straignt from the saw!
Malcolm New Zealand | New Thinking
Malcolm
The amount of free cut from the front of the blade to the back equates to about half a thou . I must admit to having set my saw in 1996 & havn't changed it since & won't unless I move the saw or a problem occurs with laminated/melamine board. The manual goes thru a process to check free cut which I imagine is not much different in yours.
A bit of a secret (that you've also discovered) & one which will get many purists diving for their valium :-) is that for 9 years I've been gluing straight off the saw. We use the sliding table to true edges after planing & skim thicknessing, & the right fence to gauge width. Choice of blade is important of course, but it isn't rocket science.
Don
Thanks Don,The Altendorf manual confirms my initial thoughts - shouldn't try and second guess myself again - In any case, I returned the saw I just replaced a slider on to the specs it was set up at.Cheers (and hope that all's well in your part of the world,)eddie
eddie
We check the square cut using the 5 cut method a couple of times a year (unless a problem arises) because it's quick & easy. Usually an MDF cover sheet suffices but it needs to be about a metre x metre.
The Christmas mayhem has passed & things are pretty settled & going well. Business this coming year looks strong contrary to the 7 O'clock News, I've even contemplated putting another apprentice on so you guys can give these kids somewhere to go after you've moulded their eager young minds :-)
Don
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled