I have a great shop!…I am very happy wih it because I finally have enough room for all my remodeling equipment as well as room to cut wood. All these tools come in handy for doing a multitiude of tasks. However,..I am making 6 roll around file stands for a picky lawyer and I have to make sure that theu sit on the ground FLAT..every wheel touching, hence, I need SQUARE!!! I had a miserable time trying to get a 38x 28 panel exactly square. My crosscut sled, which is invaluable to me for making smaller square cuts, was useless. The factory edge were not square. Last year I tweaked my sheetrock square to become perfectly square for this very reason,..but is was out too. I was a 1/16th out of square (diagonal) Am I asking for too much?
how do you square ,..PERFECTLY SQUARE, your larger panels. I dont have a 52 inch fence.
Replies
on my sliding panel sled..I have a small screw just inboard of the blade edge..a tweak of the screw dials it right in.
Also IMO..1/16" on say a 4x8 sheet is not a big deal. Find one corner that is sq. and work parallel from it, tweak with block plane if needed.
And don't forget..perfect is an impossible goal..the smaller the unit of measurements the more imperfect you will find.
"a small screw just inboard of the blade edge..a tweak of the screw dials it right in." Sphere, I'm having trouble getting a mental picture (keep in mind the term "spatially challenged" It was invented for me, LOL!). Could you elaborate? Thanks!forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Sure FG..(we still friends?)...I made a panel cutter like the one Norm uses ( yes I watch him on occaison <G>) and the fence is on the forward edge of the ply base...well, when ya slide it through the saw to trim it to zero..you have the fresh edge..on the fence, about a 1/4 inch in..I put a 6x1/2 screw..it is counter sunk in the fence face..and can be backed out a smidge for any inaccuracy in the whole fence rail to edge angle. In other words if the sliding leg and the fence are off a tad..it is easily adjustable IN ONE direction..adding a second screw farther from the blade egde would allow nudging the OTHER way..got it?
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Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
By golly, I think I got it! Thanks. I absolutely have to make a cross-cut (and a panel) sled, been putting it off way too long. That's a tip I'd not seen before.forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Great. You know all about the runner material I am sure. I like the fence about 3' long..made about 6 so far for myself and various shops I have assisted in. They are essential. Good luck.
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Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
One little detail a lot of people have missed in the corsscut sled construction.
After you construct your sled, use the blade you like for ply to trim the sled to length. Then, put that information on the sled where you can see it easily. Using a fine crosscut with a big kerf will not give you the same cut line as a combo or rip blade. The blade side of the sled should be exactly the cut off line.
One more thing. When cutting veneer ply with the sled, material will tend to splinter more on the undrerside because it's not supported by the table. If you require both sides to be free of splintering, make a scoring cut with the blade about 1/16" inch deep before you make the final crosscut. Use blue tape on the cut line on top.
I generally score all the panels first, then tape and trim.
FG,
I'm on my third panel sled and they are indispensible. A couple of points I've picked up along the way ....I use 1/2" MDF to keep the weight down...I use metal angle iron and attach the fense to it (fense has got to stay flat) and attach to the panel with oversized wholes using nuts and bolts recessed on the underside (allows for fine tuning). After squaring up the panel, I use the TS fense and a framing square to set the panel sled fense. Nice and easy...nice an accurate.... I'm using a 24" Incra in the miter slot....trying to find a 36" length of something....the hardwood and plastic runners have not worked well for me....
Check the diagonals,cut as necessary following a straightedge.It's not uncommon to have out-of-square panels.
Also, if this client MUST have level roll-around pedestals at all times,you might think about using three wheels instead of four, to assure this.
Jackplane
Equal measurements on the diagonals does not mean it is square. Hard to draw a diagram but an isoceles trapezoid has equal diagonals and is not square. Think of the base being longer than the top with two equal sloping sides! Diagonals are equal but not square
Cheers
Mac
Yeah, but if your Rectangular panels come out looking like Trapezoids you've got bigger problems than could ever be adressed on a computer forum.
True, he could wind up with an equal trapezoid.But the chances of this happening on a factory made sheet are slim. As a prior poster mentioned, a 3-4-5 measurement would yield true square.
Jackplane
I was trying to point out th fallacy of measuring the diagonals to prove it is square. i.e. foundations, shhet goods etc. You are right, the 3:4:5 rule is the best way to go
Mac
How about one of those European sliding saws? Only 6-15K! Lacking that, I use an edge clamp (Tru-Grip CT50C 50" Clamp-N-Tool Guide...Amazon.com $40.00) and my circular saw. I admit that its pretty rudimentary, but my PM66 with a 52" fence, will not do it. At least not safely. I use the edge clamp for cross cuts that I don't feel comfortable doing on the tablesaw. If you can draw it, it will cut it. Also, don't assume that any sheet stock you are working with is square, check it, twice, it's not is it? If it is, re-calibrate your square or break for lunch or something and try it again. :)
Good Luck!
John
Use saw horses, a circular saw, a guide board and C-clamps. I presume you have a carpenters square that is square? Get a quality blade for the circular saw, put the plywood good side on the bottom, and saw away. You might tack a 2x4 on top of the saw horses as a sacrificial board - just don't saw into the nails!
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)
PlaneWood
If the boxes have any flexibility and are heavy enough, a difference of 1/16 will not prevent all 4 wheels from contacting the ground. When I make coffee tables with a heavy top, I only pin the top at the midpoint of the short sides. The apron deflects/twists enough to keep all four legs on the ground.
This wouldn't work for a dining room chair, however.
Perhaps this makes my woodworking less "fine", but nobody notices except me.
Cutawooda, I agree with the advice that you got about using a straight edge clamped on and then using a circular saw, but I have had some problems with this. My saw is a POS (piece of s***), if you grab the blade (not running of course) you can move it in and out parallel to the shaft. Not very much but enough to make it out a 1/16 on the size you are talking about.
What I do is use a straight edge and saw to rough cut the panel (you could also use your table saw for this part) and then setup a straight edge and finish it with a router with a straight cutting bit. I have had good luck with this and also tend to get a little bit better finished edge.
Yeah, that's right. I have two circular saws. One old Black and Decker that has about 1/4" in/out play in the shaft. The other one is a 25 year old Porter Cable that is rock solid. With a good fine tooth blade it will make cuts darn near good enough for glue joints.
I gave the B&D to my son the other day and told him to use it at his own risk!
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)PlaneWood
There are some great suggestions here and the only one I didn't see was to use a 3-4-5 triangle to find square. Use two measuring tools and measure a unit of 3 from one corner (24" for the panel you mentioned - that's 3 X 8"). Then measure a unit of 4 from the same corner toward the other direction (for the panel in question 32" - that's 4 X 8"). Use the other measuring tool to check that the distance between the two points you made is a unit of 5 (for your panel 40" - that's 5 X 8") and adjust as needed to acheive the level of accuracy you desire. The bigger you make your triangle the more accurate it will be.
Freud, Inc.
yes that is a method I use for almost all squaring,...as a matter of fact I just laid out a socceer feild using it, except I used 60 80 100feet. I must admit, I never thought about it for such a small area.
I don't have a 52" fence, and I routinely square sheet stock of that size.
Take your sheet goods, and make a sketch of the pieces required for the job. It helps so that you can reduce waste. I usually make one cross cut with my circular saw on a sheet so it's easier to handle.
Find a nice straight piece of 4/4 about 6"wide and 5' long and joint one edge. Screw a piece of 1/4" MDF on the bottom so it's about 1" wider than your circular saw kerf. Clamp this to something, raise the blade on your saw so the motor clears the 4/4, and make a cut with the saw against the 4/4. You clamp this to any line on a piece of sheet goods and cut away.
A cross cut sled will work fine for squaring sheet goods provided you have a run out table with a slot cut to accept the runner as it feeds out and needs support. Make it as large as you can handle so that you can pass a 30" piece through the blade. I have a couple, 1-24"& 1-36". Any larger and it gets hard to control the piece.
I use the factory edge to square the long dimension leaving the piece 1/16" large, flip it and rip the other side to dimension. Square one end with the panel sled, and cut to length. It helps to have a long fence on the panel cutter so you can clamp or screw a stop to make repitive cut offs easier. No measuring.
If you want to square large panels, I'd go back to basic math and create a very large triangle out of very straight plywood and then use this and my circular saw.
Remember, a 3 by 4 by 5 triangle has a true 90 degree angle. Make your triangle 3 feet by 4 feet by 5 feet (the 90 degree angle will be the intersection of the 3 and 4 foot pieces).
The above will give you a jig that has a 4 foot side which can be used as a fence for your circular saw. If you need one that you can use for the long dimension, create a 6 by 8 by 10 jig.
To use the jig, clamp it to your sheet goods, ensuring that the short dimension absolutely follows the edge of the goods. Then run your circular saw (or router) along the middle dimension.
John
One other thing to consider-- you may get your cabinets perfectly square, but chances are that the floor they sit on will not be. Most floors have some amount of deflection, so don't drive yourself crazy.
I am going to assume that your lawyer client has a perfectly flat and level floor for these units to roll on.
I have been in the shop for many years and have been told that I do beautiful work.However,nothing that I have ever done has been perfect.
Work safely ¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬PAT¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬
Isn't the entire purpose of furniture made by human hands to be, at least, somewhat human? As stated earlier, one of those giant panel saws would do it if properly set up. I have some panels of my own to square up and I'll give the router a try. Maybe I'll get the pantry finished yet.
Good luck with your own panels and remember... you're only human.
Perhaps I am missing something here, but couldn't you just tweak whichever wheel is out with some shim? ...or make it adjustable?
Of course everything will be dependant on the flatness of the surface it rests on.
Good luck.
when i posted, I did not have them built yet. My assumption was that if the panel is out of square it will not rest on the floor flat. My original post was merely squaring large panels. Yes, I could shim and tweak a wheel, or if need be, shim 3 wheels. But I was wondering how to square large panels...thanks
I've ran into the same problem. A while back I made a $2K bookcase / entertainment center, the shelves were 34" deep by 36" wide. Some how about half of the 16 shelves ended up out of square. Measureing and cutting with a circular saw will work, but I can't get it to cut large panels square enough for my nicer projects. So I built a giant sled. I think it measures 40" wide and 38" deep. Basicly it is a poor mans sliding table. I use infeed and out feed rollers to make it easier to use. Now I rough cut with the circular saw and I use the sled to square it up. On a 36" cut it is off by less than a 32nd. I am looking at two improvements, a "real" sliding table, and the Festool rail guided circ saw thing.
Mike
I saw a trick lately that might work for cutting the panels on a table saw. On the left (or right, I guess) side of the saw, attach straight piece of wood to the edge of the wing. Make sure it is parallel to the blade. On the plywood panel, attach a straight edge to the bottom of the panel the exact distance from the saw blade to the outer edge of the guide you attached to the wing. Make sure the straight edge is square. This creates a "custom" fence for each piece of wood being cut.
Using a Router and straight edge works great as well. As does a decent circular saw. I personally think you should be able to get inside 1/32 if you take your time. Starting with an out-of-square panel will only get amplified as you build out the cabinets.
I have fine tuned a framing square for just this type of thing. You also need a precision straight edge long enough to check/fine tune the legs of the square. You can check the tongues buy hold the straight edge along side of it with light behind it. To square it up you clamp you straight edge to a table, set the square on top so you can draw/scribe a line along the perpendicular tongue. Then flip the square over and see if the line lines up. Any error is doubled. You spread the square or bring it in by using a steel punch to move the metal around.
After you have this framing square tuned up you can extend the lines out by using good straight edges. I have a four foot Stabila level that is pretty straight. Both sides are milled straight.
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