Replies

1. 
   DaveinPa | Apr 19, 2003 02:21am | #1

   If I am not mistaken, you have to seal the wood first. Birch soaks up stain and shellac like a sponge. I used 1/4' birch on some Dutch doors and the customer wanted them painted white. I had to use an oil based primer/ sealer then put two top coats on. In your case I would get a piece of scrap and use a pre-stain conditioner on the birch to seal it then put the shellac/dye mixture. It may help.

   Dave in Pa.

1. 
   BG | Apr 19, 2003 03:13am | #2

   Dave,

   I did a few test pieces first with a lighter stain(med. brown).  One piece i sealed with shellac and then put the mixture of shellac and dye on....the second piece I did not seal first and it looked the same.  So I darkened the stain and went with the mixture for the first coat.  The brush strokes looked like ridges..after several applications most of the ridges have been filled in..so its not too bad on all pieces except maybe the top.  i'm thinking of striping the top and starting all oaver again on that piece...sigh!

   I just put two final coats on of blonde shellac only....thought that might help blend the coats underneath and eliminate the ridges...nope!

1. 
   DaveinPa | Apr 19, 2003 05:27am | #3

   Try a pre stain conditioner like you do with Pine. Let it sit for 10-15 minutes and sand lightly. After that try the dye/shellac mixture. Another thing; are you lightly sanding (and I mean lightly) between coats with 220 grit sandpaper? If not all you are doing is building coat after coat of dye/shellac on top of the "fuzzies" (as I like to call them).

   Dave in Pa.

2. 
   MatDyer | Apr 19, 2003 06:25am | #4

   Coloring, be it dye or stain, in the same step as finishing will often give you headaches.  If the dye is soluble in the finish, each coat of dye&finish will just mix with the previous layers and possibly amplify the vagaries of absorption by the wood's grain itself.  Once the damage is done, try spot toning with a colored laquer spray.  Stripping may prove difficult as the dye permeated the wood fibers, necessitating their removal (i.e. sanding/scraping).  To prevent this, scrape the wood surface with a sharp cabinet scraper as sanding pushes wood dust into the pores, putting more material into them to be dyed thus creating streaks while scraping shears the wood away leaving a cleaner surface.  Apply the dye with solvent alone and generously.  Once two or three layers of finish are on, a toner can be used to unify the coloration across the surface.

3. 
   ron61 | Apr 19, 2003 10:41pm | #5

    a finish with a tint- doesn't it need to  be sprayed on?

   I'm not sure but I thought you needed to spray a finish with a tint in it to keep from streaking.

   I think it just lays on top of the wood and the brush drags the tint.

   Maybe if you did the sealer coat of thinned shellac- let dry then stain- let dry and spray the shellac with the tint.

   
   

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   Edited 4/19/2003 3:50:18 PM ET by ron61

1. 
   BG | Apr 20, 2003 12:08am | #6

   Ron61,

   That is exactly what has happened I suspect.  The stain is suspended in the shellac and gets pushed around with the brush...so I have light and dark streaks.  After four coats of the mixture, as you might guess, there is less contras...but not terribly pleasing.  I should have just stained first. I don't have spray equipment.

   Now i'm rubbing out rather aggressively.  Using 320,400 with water followed by maroon and then gray pads. Then reappling shellac...with each successive iteration, I drop one abrasive.  Next step is the gray only...and wax.  We'll see....if I don't like it I'll strip the piece...sigh

4. 
   HowardAcheson | Apr 20, 2003 04:24am | #7

   Tinting shellac sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. The slightest variation in film thickness as it it applied will cause the thicker areas to be darker than the thinner film areas. Additional coats just exacerbates the problem. That is the reason Minwax Polyshades is such a poor finish. It's best to use tinted shellac in a cut less than 1#. Then use clear coats to build a thicker finish.

   Also, the first coat of any finish effectively seals the pores of the wood. Subsequent coats therefore, lie on the surface and do not penetrate the wood.

   Brushing shellac is difficult unless you have lots of experience. It dries fast and does not flow out well. Much better if you want a smooth surface is to pad the shellac on. That too, requires practise to make it come out well.