Replies

1. 
   sharp | Feb 04, 2005 09:55am | #1

   i can speak for the fir and say dont expect good results.

   blotch!

2. 
   hammer1 | Feb 04, 2005 03:59pm | #2

   White pine has a tendency to be blotchy. Many use a wood conditioner first before staining which vastly improves the evenness of the color but lightens it some. Fir doesn't seem quite as bad but the same technique is often used. The fir has a more pronounced grain than pine. With conditioner they both stain pretty well.

   Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

1. 
   limeyzen | Feb 04, 2005 04:06pm | #3

   Thank you.  I'm not familiar with wood conditioners, could you give an example or product name?  TIA

1. 
   forestgirl | Feb 04, 2005 07:55pm | #4

   You can simply use what's called a "wash coat" of shellac.  Use a one-pound cut.  Jeff Jewitt's instructions:  "brush or wipe on the shellac quickly, saturating the wood.  Wipe off the excess quickly.  Sand with 320grit sandpaper when dry, and then apply stain." 

   I've used gel stain on Alder (another blotch-prone wood) with some success.  Whichever technique you use, be sure to practice on some scrap before approaching a finished piece.

   For lighter shades on pine, you could try the various tones of shellac.  Jeff has a wide selection on his web site:http://www.homesteadfinishing.com

    forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

2. 
   hammer1 | Feb 05, 2005 12:20am | #7

   I'm not sure where you live, Limeyzen. Finding fir trim in my area would require either a special order or custom made. This will increase the cost. Minwax is a commonly available product, they make a wood conditioner and stains. If you don't have experience mixing finishing materials you would be much better to use ready made products. These are not expensive and you can buy some small quantities to try some samples. Read the instructions on the can and follow them. If you don't get what you are looking for, go to a professional paint store and speak to them about their products. There will be a difference between the two species that won't be easy to mask. There is a lot of work staining all the trim in a house, my advice would be, keep it simple.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

1. 
   Cy | Feb 05, 2005 02:55am | #8

   I just stained a bunch of fir trim with watco dark walnut. I applyed the natural finish stain first, and wiped it off right away, then applied the dark walnut stain. I found it hard to get all the trim to match, if it was sanded more smoothly, it didn't stain as dark. I didn't come out as dark as I would have liked, nowhere near as dark as the samples I saw on other woods. Some of the wood I had was new, and some was stripped and refinished, so there was difference there as well. I like the look of it, it's just not what I envisioned when I bought the stain

   Edited 2/4/2005 6:59 pm ET by cy

3. 
   forestgirl | Feb 04, 2005 08:07pm | #5

   Addendum:

   "finished results, color/ density/ absorbtion..."  Fir is a different animal, so-to-speak.  The vertical grain you see presents a big challenge for both shaping and finishing.  You're looking at early wood/late wood stripes that are soft/hard/soft/hard (soft meaning "more porous").  VG fir won't splotch in the usual sense of the word, but the does not absorb stain evenly across those two types of wood, and the darker the stain the more abrupt the effect.

   My bank's interior  is predominantly VG fir (being in the Great Northwest, this is very appropriate).  It looks to me like they applied a nearly-blond shellac and then a hard finish over that.  I can't remember seeing it in a commercial setting with any significant stain on it.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
   Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   limeyzen | Feb 04, 2005 08:32pm | #6

   Thank you for your (as usual) thorough replies.  I'm doing the trim for our new house that will have an Arts and Crafts influenced interior.  Windows come standard with clear pine casings but I saw in Sarah Susanka's books liberal use of VG Fir for door and window trim so I wonder  how compatible the two finishes would be since they will bang up against each other.  Thanks again.

1. 
   KyleZ | Feb 15, 2005 02:23am | #11

   If you haven't purchased your windows yet, Loewen (Canadian firm) sells windows with fir jambs and sash.  http://www.loewen.com

    

   Cheers

   Kyle

    

4. 
   ger | Feb 05, 2005 03:38pm | #9

   I once had to match aged, stained vg fir and could not for the life of me get an even appearance across the hard and soft grain. After some research I came across the trick of using an aniline dye as a pre-stain and then, after drying and maybe a light sand, using the "finish" stain. You'll have to experiment with the pine, possibly using a stroger concentration, [ the dye is powdered and mixed with very hot water or alcohol ]. Good luck.

5. 
   robbo | Feb 14, 2005 11:48pm | #10

   I did a house remodel last year and installed pine framed windows. VG fir was used for trim. The windows and fir were finished with varnish -no stain. The two woods are not an exact match but the colors of each are light with little contrast when seen from a distance.
   Clear coating each has turned out well.