Replies

1. 
   Westchester | Sep 05, 2003 01:51am | #1

   Hey Wanda,

   I would sand anyway to at least 180 -  to be sure.

   Putty can be added before or after staining - so there are no strong rules.  However if you putty after staining be careful not to sand through the stain. 

   Use socks, rags, sponge brushes to apply stain, all will work.

   Conditioner will provide a sealing effect on the wood.  The stain will not be as dark.   I don't think you need to fill knots.  You can fill imperfections  either before or after staining.   Let the stain dry for a couple of days and poly is OK as a top coat.

   Have fun - finishing is a little like art work, every artist has a different feel for things.

   Regards,

   SA

1. 
   wendy | Sep 05, 2003 01:59am | #2

   Hi SA,

   Thanks for your input. I'll go ahead and fill any imperfections although there doesn't appear to be any. I haven't unwrapped the pine panels yet but I checked them over well in the store to make sure there were no glaring scratches or dents. But if I find any spots I'll be sure to fill them. Is it ok to just sand using 100 grit, 150 and 180. Or is it better to just sand once using the 180. I know some people like to work there way up to the finer grit.

   When applying the conditioner to the knots, should I coat the entire pine panel as well for an even appearance?

   wanda

1. 
   Westchester | Sep 05, 2003 02:29am | #3

   Hey Wanda,

   My feeling is that if they said no sanding is necessary - going right to 180 is more then enough.  It is a pre-sanded board - it isn't necessary to over do it.

   Conditioner just on the knots isn't a good idea - if you want the effect of a more even stain but a lighter  color on the woodwork overall , go with conditioner on the entire panel.  Whether you  seal or condition the knots with conditioner or a wash coat of shellac - they are still dark and visible.  The conditioner simply stops the stain from penetrating too deeply which can cause unevenness in the color.  Some folks like the darker pine color , uneven or not-  it's a matter of taste.

2. 
   JohnWW | Sep 05, 2003 04:05am | #4

   Wanda,

   1. You will need to sand lightly to remove scuff marks and dirt that will come from working with the panels.  Lightly sanding with a very fine sandpaper is all that is needed.  Usually sanding is done toward the end of a project, although some surfaces that will be hard to sand once the piece is assembled can be sanded sooner.  I can't think of any reason to putty and sand before cutting the wood to size.

   2. I'm assuming that by putty you mean something used to fill nail holes and the like.  Most fillers, despite package claims, won't absorb stain at all like real wood and filled spots will be glaringly obvious when you apply the stain. 

   If at all possible, avoid getting into a situation where you need to use filler.  Pine especially, gets nicked and dinged a bit, it adds character and doesn't need to be hidden.  Applying filler to the small cracks in knots serves no practical purpose in terms of making the finish adhere better or hold up longer.  

   If you must do some filling, the best approach is to use a filler as dark or slightly darker than the stain and to apply it sparingly after the staining is done.  Once the filler dries, lightly sand the filled spots and touch up the stain with a rag just slightly dampened with stain.  

   Be aware that any glue that gets on surfaces to be stained will prevent the stain from penetrating.  Sanding off the dried glue, or wiping the fresh glue off with a wet rag, often fails to completely remove the glue, leading to problems later when you go to stain.  If you aren't positive if you have a glue spot problem, wiping the piece with paint thinner before you stain will show up glue spots that will need further work to remove.  The thinner will evaporate harmlessly after a while and won't affect the staining later on.

   3.  For a liquid stain foam brushes work fine.  But for someone inexperienced I'd suggest using a gel stain.  Gels applied with a rag are easier to control and will give a more even finish on a porous wood like pine which can stain unevenly.  If you are going to use a liquid stain, using a prestain conditioner will help to prevent blotchy uneven stain absorption.  I strongly recommend that everyone use protective gloves, and good ventilation, when finishing.

   4.  Shellac is only used to seal knots on pieces that are going to be painted.  The shellac prevents the chemicals in the knots from bleeding through the paint.  Since you aren't painting the nightstand, you wont need to shellac the knots.

   5.  When in doubt, read the instructions, and follow them.  Minwax makes good products, they are regularly used by professionals, if you stick with their products for the whole job, and follow their directions you should have success.  Before finishing the nightstand, try any experimental techniques on scraps.

   Hope this helps, feel free to ask more questions.

   John W.

    

   
   

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   Edited 9/6/2003 1:40:31 PM ET by JohnW

3. 
   WayneL5 | Sep 05, 2003 05:12am | #5

   A couple of other tips, though I'm far from an expert, more of a hobbiest.

   If you have to use finishing nails which would show, try to locate them in a dark streak of the grain rather than a lighter streak.  Then when you fill them in and color them (matching the dark streak, of course) they blend in easier.  They look more natural as a speck in the grain than a spot in an area of clear light wood.  Sometimes they look like little knots if you place them right and fill them in dark.

   I sometimes touch up the color of a tiny area after staining but before applying clear finish.  I use colored pencils.  I bought a range of browns in an art store.  I just blend in the colors.  Not perfect, but if there's a speck of off color, such as from a glue speck or putty that is a touch too light, colored pencils can make them so they don't jump out, you'd have to look more carefully to find them.

   People much better than me can touch up with artists brushes, dyes, etc.

4. 
   Floss | Sep 05, 2003 07:03am | #6

   Shellac is a good topcoat before staining with pine. However you must thin the shellac before you apply it with denatured alcohol.. You may purchase shellac already mixed in a 2 pound cut. This means that two pounds of shellac were mixed in one gallon of alcohol. When thinning you want to have about a one pound cut in order to help the stain absorb evenly. therefore if you use a pint of shellac you want to add the same amount of denatured alcohol, one pint, to the mix. Apply the shellac evenly and try not to overlap your brushstrokes too much. The shellac will dry very quickly, within an hour depending on humidity. Once the shellac has dried sand lightly with 150 grit sandpaper to remove any lap marks from brushing. You may then apply your stain of choice and follow the manufacturers instructions for finishing the project. I have used this method with pine and minwax oil stan and have had very good results. I dont fill ant blemishes until the piece is finished and then I use a colored wood putty that matches the tone of wood in order to fill any small blemishes.

5. 
   Kevin | Sep 05, 2003 07:57am | #7

   This pine comes individually wrapped and it says on the package.. No need to sand. It's already for staining. Yet my friend suggests I sand and putty all the boards before cutting the pieces.

   I agree with your friend. I'm a full time finisher/painter and I go over everything that comes into my paint shop even though I know the guys in the shop already sanded it. I take nothing for granted. Invariably it takes longer to fix something that was missed than it does to give the wood a "once over" to double check. Equally invariably I find more than one thing that was missed by the shop guys.

   The best and fastest way to check wood is to run your hand over it. You'll feel things that your eyes simply won't catch as quickly or as accurately.

   What's the best way to prepare the wood before applying the stain? Is it best to use a synthetic brush or one of those disposable styrofoam brushes to apply the stain. I've had good success using an old sock when I stained the kitchen table.

   Your experience should guide you IMO. Foam brushes are nice... I suppose. I think FG said she likes using them. I don't care for them, personally. I've always just used a thick, absorbant (i.e., cotton like your old sock) cloth folded over several times into a neat square. If you can find the old style cotton cloth diapers, they work fantastic! They're even better for wiping the excess stain off.

   2. Is it necessary to use a wood conditioner before applying the stain.  My friend was telling me that wood conditoner might not work with this type of pine. 

   No, it's not necessary per se. Although I do disagree with your friend about whether a wood conditioner will work on that type of pine. It may not work as well on Lodgepole Pine as it does on some other types of wood. But, it works on all wood. I've never worked with Lodgepole Pine, so I have no first-hand experience staining it. But, it's wood and therefore wood conditioner will work on it to some degree. The best way to find out is to test it out on a piece of scrap or, lacking any scrap, on an inconspicuous area where nobody will ever see your test spot.

   I've read somewhere that knots should be "primed" coated with shellac first before applying the stain.

   I've never primed knots on any Pine. What's the purpose of priming them supposed to be... to stop any pitch leakage? If you have visible pitch leakage then I would definitely want to do something to stabalize the area before proceeding. If slapping some shellac on the problem spot works then so much the better. If you don't have any pitch spots anywhere then I don't see what's to gain by sealing the knots with shellac other than spending that much more time on the project.

   He also suggested that I fill the knots and other minor imperfections with wood putty. I don't know if that's really necessary. 3. The directions on the Miniwax wood putty say to apply the stain seal or topcoat first and then fill in the gaps. I would have thought you'd have to fill the knot holes and minor imperfections first. Then sand the spots and apply the stain. Now I'm really confused.

   Y'know... it is really up to you with regard to whether to putty imperfections or not. If this Lodgepole Pine is knotty, and you indicate that it is, there's a certain rustic charm that a few imperfections add to that type of finished piece. Heck, there are people who deliberately beat on pine to add imperfections before finishing it. Different strokes for different folks... LOL

   It's your project. Do what pleases you. If you think you'd like the charm that a few imperfections add... leave 'em. If not then patch them up. I'm sure your friend is only trying to be helpful. But, the bottom line is that it's your project and you have the final say on what you want it to look like. :-)

   As for the Minwax putty... Is it a sandable wood filler type putty? Or is it that colored finger putty that feels kinda greasy? If it's the latter then the directions are precisely correct. You'd make a huge mess trying to use that type of putty on raw wood. On raw wood you only want to use a sandable wood filler - preferably one that is designed to accept stain more or less the same as the species of wood you're using it on.

   Regards,

   Kevin