I hope I haven’t dug my own grave here. I’m very attracted to the variation in tone and subtle grain figure sometimes found in poplar, and have sunk some time into building a corner cabinet out of the stuff. My first several attempts at staining test pieces, however, have not been pretty. I know that it is possible to get a good result with poplar; I hope that it isn’t essential to stain it way down (other wood in the room is a warm orange finished southern yellow pine).
In the tools and shops issue of FW there was a photo of a workbench one reader had made with poplar legs. It looked great – but what did he do? Another wood website had a finishing link on this subject which made it sound about daunting as I could imagine – a 5 or so step process. I’d appreciate any tips and advice you all could offer.
Thanks!
– Benjamin
Replies
Another place to post your question would be the forum at Jeff Jewitt's Homestead Finishing web site. I know he recommends using a dye to warm up poplar: "Cool woods like poplar and kiln-dried maple can be warmed up by applying a dilute amber colored (like TransFast¯ Early American Maple or TransTint¯ Honey Amber) dye. Applied in a dilute strength, this color warms up poplar and walnut."
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Emphasis on the word "dilute"!
Most people use poplar for paint grade work but - like you - I really like it's color and grain variations. I've done a few small pieces finished with a sanding sealer and polyurethane. Some people love the look and others give me a look and say "Ok, whatever........" - lol.
Since I've never sold anything in stained poplar, I'm convinced that the heathens just aren't sophisticated enough yet. - lol
IMO Poplar looks really good with a few coats of garnet shellac. Poplar will take a very fine finish. The pores are small, and the shellac fills them quickly. The amber/red tone of the shellac cuts the green in the Poplar.
The figure of Poplar is usually strong enough to stand out through the shellac, so there's really no need IMO to pop the grain first. You can use Tung oil to pop the grain a little, if necessary. This adds to total finish time, however.
I've never stained Poplar. I have dyed it. Just make sure you keep the dye very dillute. You will find that the wood takes up the dye very unevenly. You'll probably want to seal/size it first. Someone on this forum a while back described a technique for using water-based dye on Poplar (or another soft, poruous wood). He uses spray bottle to keep the wood wet while he applies the dye, paying special attention to areas that are likely to soak up too much color. (At least that's how I remember his description.) He also mentioned that you should "burnish" the wood with fine-grit paper before dying, to close up the pores as much as possible, as another way to even out the absorption of the dye.
Good luck
Garnet shellac, eh? As opposed to Zinsser amber? I've heard the name before, but never paid it much attention. I've seen varieties of button shellac which were pretty dark (in their solid form). Is garnet one of these?I've got a finishing book by a guy named Bob Flexner which I like, though it isn't very helpful on this particular issue. At any rate, I seem to remember him being down on the idea of sanding sealer under anything other than paint - it can interfere with the bond between the surface and the finish? On the other hand, an uncomplicated process - that looks good - is what I'm ultimately after here. Thanks for the input!
Here a link related to the post above:
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-knots/messages?msg=19722.9
Here's a page with a dozen or so different shellacs on various woods:http://homesteadfinishing.com/htdocs/shellac3.htmforestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Here is a link to the discussion of how to control takeup of dye in Poplar: http://forums.taunton.com/tp-knots/messages?msg=17562.1
I'd better step back and let the experts answer to tough questions. My point in mentioning "garnet" was just to point you at the darker versions of shellac. As for sealing before dying, I certainly wouldn't want to contradict an expert like Bob Flexner. If you do a little searching, I think you find some good expert advice on how to use a very dillute wash coat of shellac or the like to control blotching and limit absorption. When it comes to water-based dye, as I mentioned, a good "sealer" is just plain water. Grain-raising in Poplar is not a huge problem.
It depends on the sealer used and what the topcoat will be. some are incompatible, some will partially dissolve the undercoat to form the bond. in GENERAL shellac is compatible with almost all standard topcoats1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go 4 - get a new board and go back to step 1
I am in a similar position, having built some bed side tables and book cases out of poplar. Played with several attempts at staining and had the best luck with gel stain. Woodcraft sells a line manufactured by General Finishes which works well. I tried their candlelight stain and the red tones warmed up the appearance of the piece. I am not a huge fan of stained wood, but was pleased with this product. For what it is worth, I played with Zinsers amber shellac and did not think that in and of itself, it added enough color to poplar. Garnet shellac sounds like a good idea. Remember that poplar will color nicely in sunlight, hense simply oiling the wood seems to permit sun aging to continue but under a nice patina.
Good luck, I hope this helps.
Rick
Try this. It is quick, easy, and definitely undaunting. I use Solar-Lux by Behlan. It gives poplar a nice warm look. So far the only color I have used is their walnut. it has a bit of dark reddish tone, but very warm and allows the natural grain to show nicely. Warning, it dries very quickly, and you can get lap and drying marks. But they sell a retarder to slow that process down, which I would highly recommend. I simply rubbed out, let dry, and finished with 3 coats of water-based poly. Below is a link to their page in WoodCraft. Take care all. And for those of you who might remember my thread a few weeks ago, it is now 2 1/2 months without a cigarette. If I can, you can.
F E
BEHLEN Solar-Lux™ Stains - Woodcraft.com
underneath all this sawdust, is there something I can sell? I need the money to buy more wood and tools and stain and varnish and paint and screws and what was I saying?
FE< Not all people can quit! You are to be admired. One ATABOY to you!If, at first, you fricascee, fry, fry a hen!
Thanks Chuck!
YO! When I clicked on your message,. I didn't smell any cig. smoke! The babes, really like that! Trust me! Chuck KellerIf, at first, you fricascee, fry, fry a hen!
Hey, Chuck, I love your signature, but it'll read much better with only 2 commas:
If at first you fricascee, fry, fry a hen!
Sorry, the ol' editor in me couldn't resist!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Dear FG, I never claimed to be great at spelling or ,,,,, whatever. But, I'm great atb woodworking and cooking and life! My Mom, was a Latin major. I couldn't keep up with her! She can spell, write, on and on. May I quote my favorite sailor; " I am, wats I am!" PopeyeIf, at first, you fricascee, fry, fry a hen!
Popeye! He was not only my favorite sailor, but one of my favorite people when I was a kid!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
You must be a saiior, at heart. I was raised on the coast and my Dad was an avid yachtsman. He taught me to "eats me spinich" and grow up strong and healthy! One of my favorite movies is Popeye, with Robin Williams. BW, Chuck PS Always remember to turn your pipe upside down, when it rains!!!!!!!!!!!If, at first, you fricascee, fry, fry a hen!
CHUCK>>
One ATABOY to you! I forgot about that one...
I had a VP give me a award at work once.. He gave me a 'ATABOY' award on some paper...
I asked him how many 'AH Chits' did it cover... He did NOT understand! LOL~
20 years ago I quit after 28 years of sucking poison Congratulate yourself - you deserve it! Minute-by-minute, hour-by-hour, day-by-day and day-after-day, keep making that choice to live a longer and healthier life.
Doug
I made some cabinets for a lady once for her kitchen...
She wanted Poplar wood AND a Bordeaux color.. Ya know.. Sort of Red/Purple..
I used a mix of black/Red/and....megenta stains... Transparent.... I did not like it much but she just giggled when she saw them!.. LOL...
She was VERY happy...
Edit: She may have been drinkin' some of that Bordeaux stuff! To each their own!
Edited 5/27/2005 1:04 pm ET by Will George
Hope this helps (maybe you have already selected a course of action): try a white pickeling (sp?) stain. Work in the stain as you go with a brush until it is nearly dry to the touch. Top it with poly, four or five coats. The poplar goes to a gray, highlighting the grain, with the formerly purple sections still evident, but not with such a big contrast as before, and hardly purple anymore.
Kind of hard to describe, I am now finding out.
I only came upon this process because I had some p stain left over from another project and tried it out. I tell you this so no one will accuse me of being an expert.
-Bob
Whew - more than one way to stain a board!I can see I'll be spending lots of time (I hope not lots of money)staining test pieces. I think maybe I'll try to find some other species to feel passionate about next time...By the way, just brought home a Ridgid 13" board planer, to complement the jointer (ran out of people to borrow it from. Nevet thought I'd see the day I'd bring home a Ridgid anything, much less shop tool. But they keep getting high marks in FW!Thanks for all the tips - still open to other suggestions.
Benjamin,
A few years ago, I decided to make a shaker style wall clock for my sister-in-law's home. Not having a ready source of cherry, I made it from poplar.
In my ignorance about the staining difficulties of the wood, I went ahead and stained it with Bartley's Cherry Wipe on Gel Stain and then finished it with Bartley's Gel Wipe On Varnish ( two coats). It came out beautiful and looks just like cherry.
She still has it hanging on her wall, and loves it.
I hope this helps ------------- Joe
Hey there - Yeah, I've been hoping for something that easy. I like Bartley gels a lot - particularly the varnish, which I try to hip my friends to. The "cherry" stain they have out now is called "Pennsylvania Cherry", and it's prety dark. On the lighter latewood areas it blotches pretty nastily. I'm aiming for a very even finish that isn't too dark - a warm red-orange at the darkest - which doesn't hide the figure too much. This creates a bit of a double bind: the green areas don't blotch so much, but to seal the wood so that the light areas don't either requires several coats of shellac. (I don't like shiny finishes, so the shellac must be thinned quite a bit) That much sealing means the stain doesn't penetrate, but rather builds on itself, so again, many coats are required to get it looking even and non-green. Then there's the problem of that much stain building up in, yes, blotchy ways, so then the steel wool or dreaded paint thinner come out. And around it goes, until I check in with the email in the hope that someone has another suggestion.That said, thanks for the reply - I'm going to try just slapping some Bartley's on a board and see if you're right after all! - B
None of your respondents mentioned the question of true poplar versus "yellow poplar", which is totally unrelated to poplar, being of the magnolia family, and properly called "tulip tree", or by the botanists Liriodendron Tulipifera. If you are buyingfrom a lumber dealer it's certain to be tulip tree. The real poplars are the cotton-wood, aspen , and poplars, with willow as a close cousin.
Tom
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