Replies

1. 
   TaunTonMacoute | Oct 12, 2007 11:24pm | #1

   A crosscut saw can always be used to rip in a pinch. These things are so small I'd probably go ahead and build two of them while I was at it - a rip and a xcut.

   ECE makes a stair-saw in case time is of the essence. You can order from Adria Tools.

   
   

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   Edited 10/12/2007 4:25 pm ET by TaunTonMacoute

2. 
   JohnWW | Oct 12, 2007 11:32pm | #2

   I doubt that it would work well, primarily because there would be no way during a long cut to clear the sawdust. You would have to lift the saw out of the cut every few seconds to clear the saw teeth, this would be especially true with a rip cut that produces long shavings. This might be doable if the cut is shallow, but a 1/2" or 3/4" deep cut will be slow going. Also, rip cuts tend to be more prone to binding than crosscuts so the saw will probably be hard to push.

   John White
   Yestermorrow School, Waitsfield, Vermont
   FWW Experts column contributor

1. 
   hb2u | Oct 13, 2007 04:06pm | #3

   John, what I'm geting from your post is that the stiar saw is best used on short cuts only?

   Do you have a method to recommend to remove the waste from a rabbet 7 feet long and 2 inches wide and 1/2 inch deep? 

   Thanks!

    

   HB

1. 
   KiddervilleAcres | Oct 13, 2007 04:21pm | #4

   Router?

   Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres

    

   A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!

2. 
   JohnWW | Oct 15, 2007 03:08am | #8

   My basic recommendation would be not to do it. For a full size door installed in a house you are asking for trouble by cutting the stop into the frame. After a door is hung, the stops are fitted to give a snug closing without binding and the latch side stop should be sprung slightly to make the latch engage smoothly but be rattle free. If you are installing a door with fixed stops it will be very difficult to get the frame flush with the wall while getting the door to strike the stops properly.John W.

1. 
   hb2u | Oct 15, 2007 11:42am | #9

   Thanks for the tip, I appreciate it. This situation is sort of unique though, in that the house is 215 years old and I want the door frame to match the others, all off which are constructed with the stops carved imto the frame.The frame in this case is going to be about an inch proud of the adjoining wall becase it is also the molding, and I'll just be plastering right up to it's edge.I've hung a couple of doors in modern buildings, and you're right, not many people know that the frame is supposed to be sprung to help the latch work.Thanks again for the tip.HB

1. 
   TaunTonMacoute | Oct 15, 2007 02:03pm | #10

   You can make, and hang, a rabbeted frame that will be a good fit with the door.  You can't do it with a trim carpenter's mentality that you have to hang twenty in a day.

   Any idiot can bang one up with a gun and then tack a stop to fit.  And idiots regularly do.  2nd weekers on a trim crew can hang doors like a "pro."  Using the term loosely.

   I appreciate what you're trying to accomplish here.  I'd cut the rebate with a plane if I were you. 

   A tacked on stop would look hideous on the house you described.

   Edited 10/15/2007 2:58 pm ET by TaunTonMacoute

2. 
   MikeHennessy | Oct 15, 2007 02:35pm | #11

   Kudos to you for giving this a try. In many old houses I have worked on, the jambs have integral stops. IMHO, this makes for a nicer door, since the jambs in these units were usually at least 1-1/2" stock. If I was doing this with hand tools, I'd just use a rabbet plane. Since jamb stock is traditionally clear white pine, planing would be a pleasure, yielding lots of curly shavings for kindling! (These days, that pine will probably cost you more than the new rabbet plane!)

   See John White's post though. Integral stops do make it critical to get the jambs *exactly* right when installing. I usually make up the jambs and header (dadoed into the jambs 3/8" more than the depth of the stop) and "hang" the door on the bench (or sawhorses) flat and true. Then, install the whole lot as a prehung. That helps get everything snug and straight. You may also want to consider beveling the hinge side stop just a bit to allow the swinging door to clear nicely.

   I have a Record 078 rabbet plane that I purchased new early in my WW days. When I tried to do a web search to post a link for you, all I saw were links to e-bay, etc., auctions of "vintage" tools. Now I feel old. ;-)

   I did see a Kunz knock-off for about $125, though something about flourescent green tools puts me off a bit.

   A nice rabbet plane is a good investment if you don't have one. Mine is pretty high on the list of planes that get the most use. You could also use a shoulder plane and a fence if you prefer. Either way, to do this job properly, you'll need a plane that cuts all the way to the edge of the sole. That said, for the cost of the plane, you could probably get a throw-away router and a bit at a place like Harbor Freight to do this if you are not limiting yourself to hand tools. (Though, even if I used a router to do this job, I'd probably still want a rabbet or shoulder plane to bevel things a bit, though you could get by without one.)

   Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA

3. 
   hb2u | Oct 15, 2007 05:07pm | #12

   I'm using true 4" x 4" white pine I bought from the local sawmill at $.55 per board foot so I paid about $10.60 for each 8 foot long 4 x 4. Fairly clear.  They didn't seem to care much about clear wood when the house was built based on the framing and other woodwork that I've seen.  It was all meant to be painted anyway.

   I had him cut it as boxed heart which is supposed to be one of the best options for avoiding twist according to the timberframing books I've read.  It;s air dried for about 2 months in my basement and it is really nice to work with.

   The door is being installed across a hall and the sides of the frame are going to be mortised through the header, with the tennons extending another 6 inches or so into the attic space to tie into the existing (modern) joists.

   The header of the frame is going to extend into the side walls to be tied into the framing there.

   Since I'm building this with mortise and tennon joinery like a cabinet face frame, it'll be as straight as I can make the joints, but that should help everything line up properly.

   What has been difficult is truing up the timbers that are about  18 inches longer than my bench.  But I finished four squaring the second one today, so all that's left is the header which is only about 4 feet long, so that'll be a breeze, comparitively.

   I do have a stanley rabbet plane as well as a woody that I picked up somewhere, I just prefer to rough things out quickly, reserving the planes for the final touches.  At least the woody has a skew blade, which should help things along a bit.

   Thanks again for all the advice fellas.  I truly appreciate it.

   HB

4. 
   zolton | Oct 16, 2007 02:31pm | #13

   If you're seeking to "rough this out quickly," why not use a tablesaw to cut the rabbets a sixteenth of an inch from where they need to be and then plane them from there? That would give you straight lines to work from, and would cut out a ton of work...   Zolton* Some people say I have a problem because I drink hydraulic brake fluid. But I can stop any time I want.

5. 
   hb2u | Oct 16, 2007 04:00pm | #14

   Well, that would mean I need to buy a table saw and dust collector and then I'd have to build a shop to put them in:-(

   My workspace is confined to a 10 by 10 area in the basement at this point plus some additional lumber storage space behind the furnace - someday I'll build a bigger shop out back so I can build a bigger bench!

   Thanks for the thought.

   HB

3. 
   joelm | Oct 13, 2007 05:16pm | #5

   You are cutting rip all the way - it's really easy.
   Use a marking gauge just for guide lines and then a chisels in rapid succession to clear the waste - messily, like roughing out for a door hinge. once you have cut the grain with the chisel you can easily come from the side and split out most of the waste. There is no need to saw.

   Another way of doing it is with a plow plane with a narrow blade. One groove at the inside of the gauge line on face and side.

   Joel
   http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com
4. 
   forestgirl | Oct 13, 2007 05:22pm | #6

   Bob said "Router?"  FG says "Ditto."  Is this a hand-tools-only project??

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 
   
1. 
   hb2u | Oct 14, 2007 04:26am | #7

   Hand tools only - I only own a router plane - not a tailed demon.  I do have a plough plane though and that's a great idea.

   I'll try that after I try to just rough it out with a chisel and marking guage.

   Thanks for the ideas.

   HB