Standard Dado with Epoxy instead of Sliding Dovetail in Hancock Shaker Candle Stand.
I’ve built a few Hancock Shaker Candle Stands using the Will Meyers Plans found here: https://woodandshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Plans-Hancock-Shaker-Candle-Stand.pdf
I find making the sliding dovetails where the legs attach to the column… unpleasant. To make matters worse, nobody gets to see them, especially once the bottom is covered by the leg spider (https://www.horton-brasses.com/TS-5.asp).
I recently built a skin on frame canoe and got pretty familiar with Epoxy. The strength of the epoxy bond really astounded me. This got me to thinking about the sliding dovetail legs of the Shaker Candle Stand…
What’s the (mechanical) downside of just using a standard dado with epoxy for this joint instead of a sliding dovetail? I’d still add the leg spider on the bottom, as I make mine out of brass now and it is a nice nuanced detail and may provide a small amount of additional strength.
I think this joint would be as strong, if not stronger, then the sliding dovetail for the legs.
Authenticity aside, will this be a good joint?
Replies
Most of the joint as you describe it will be end grain to side grain and be completely dependent on the glue. Will it hold? Perhaps... it is a pretty light-duty application. Adding a M&T or floating tenon would add significant structural support and lock it down.
Have you seen this video series? https://www.finewoodworking.com/videoworkshop/2020/09/shaker-candle-stand-with-christian-beckvoort
Yes, a couple of times. Always a pleasure watching Chris.
Sooner or later it will fail. You really need the mechanical strength of the dovetail joint.
Epoxy is not any stronger on wood than yellow glue -- unless you have really gappy joints. Glue and a dado just aren't good enough.
I take it you are having trouble cutting your sliding dovetails by hand, the way Will does? There are a bunch of ways to use a router. I've done this on a router table.
Cut your pedestal stock to a hexagon.
Set your router bit height on a router table. Rout the dovetail slots on three of the six sides of your hexagon.
Turn your pedestal. Leave small flat areas next to each dovetail slot for the legs.
Cut the dovetails on either side of your legs. The bit height is the same as when you routed the pedestal slots.
Thanks John. I do not cut them by hand. Cutting the slot has not been the problem as I use a jig with the router. It's the sizing of the width of the dovetail in the leg has been the pain for me. I've scrapped quite a few legs by going undersize. I've learned to keep scrap of the same thickness as the legs to nail down the correct spacing (I am cutting the legs on the router table - I have a micro adjust on the fence).
I'm building my 5th stand now (these are for family members), and I am at the point where I need to route the column, andI thought to myself, "If the shakers had epoxy like this I bet they'd use it here. It would be so much easier and just as good".
I'm probably just being lazy about it. But I suppose if I want the table to last 100+ years then it is better to do it with the traditional joinery.
Like you said, the joint is hidden. If you undersize, glue a patch in and try again! But if you don’t enjoy it, definitely find another method. Life is too short for unpleasant joinery. Try by hand, maybe you’ll like it more.
I might not bother with the dovetail myself.
No doubt it is best practice and I completely agree with the comments above, however:
This is a VERY light duty table. There is a very long contact area. Grain direction is congruous.
This means that short of jumping on it, it will hold with glue - probably for longer than any of us will live.
If I did do the dovetail, it would be for the fun of it, not because I thought it would make the slightest difference to the longevity of the piece.
I am also tempted to prefer the sliding dovetail since it is the traditional method of joinery in this piece of furniture and for having built two Chippendale inspired such tables years ago that stood the test of time. I however took a different approach to this design considering the tongue and groove joinery with a strong, gap filling adhesive suggested by the author and this might actually beat the dovetail in both strength and ease of making. The failure of the leg joinery if it happens will comme not from holding a candle but from an accident of by far exceeding the weight it is designed to carry. My guess is that the failure of the dovetail joinery will come as a split or crack in the column along the sides where the legs meet the column. If the joint is a tongue and groove, there is more material left in the column and there is a better chance of making a tight fitting assembly thus making the tongue and groove my new preferred choice.
Go to an antique store in the NE and find some old examples to examine. I guarantee you’re gonna see a bunch of bent over nails or steel plates screwed in as repairs. Dado could lead to catastrophic failure vs just a loose joint with a sliding dovetail.
I think the spider is doing a lot to hold the joint together. There's a reason why even tables with dovetails have them. My guess is that you'd be fine with a straight-walled tenon and epoxy. Give it a try and let me know how it works! Good luck, Mike
Thanks for the reply Mike. I've got three more in the works now, I'll try it with at least one of them!
The depth of the dado will make a difference. My initial reply was colored by thinking that a "standard dado" is about deep enough to set a shelf inside a case. If the dados were cut as deep as the dovetails they replace would have been you're in M&T territory and that spider will never get his legs stretched.
Nope, this is one best made using the traditional joint.
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