Stanley Sweetheart 750 Chisels – Initial Prep – How Much?
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I was interested in getting a set of the above chisels as second set for traveling off site. Has anyone had direct use experience with them? In particular how much work was needed to prep the face (back)? Are the milling marks really deep requiring say 80-100 grit to begin? Primary bevels square? Otherwise interested in quality in general realizing of course these are not “L-N and above”. Thanks in advance for any input/comments.
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I'm afraid I have no direct experience with them but have read they need a little tune up. I would also suggest you look at the Narex Richters I bought a set for my son and was blown away by the quality, they are nearly the match for my Veritas VM-11s at less than half the price. They aren't made in the USA or Canada but they aren't made in China either.
Thanks, have never used Narex. Did you do initial prep on them?
My son's needed very little, but that is the premium Richter line. Narex has 3 lines if I'm not mistaken and the quality corresponds to the price. The mid line has a long standing reputation as a great value but will need some tuning, their entry line is probably not worth the trouble.
This link may answer a lot of your questions. It's a 7 minute video comparison between the 750s and Richters done by Katz-Moses a pretty good source. He even mentions how hard it was to flatten the 750s
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?view=detail&mid=1C2082A328D2BAB1D04D1C2082A328D2BAB1D04D&q=narex+richter+chisel&shtp=GetUrl&shid=b4b7abe4-7838-473c-b93c-25364ba9c669&shtk=TmFyZXggUmljaHRlciBWUy4gU3RhbmxleSA3NTAgQ2hpc2VscyAtIFRvb2wgUmV2aWV3IFR1ZXNkYXk%3D&shdk=KlN1cHBvcnQgV2hhdCBXZSBEbyBhdCBUaGUgS2F0ei1Nb3NlcyBTdG9yZSogaHR0cHM6Ly9sZGR5Lm5vL3N0aWggT24gdGhpcyBUb29sIFJldmlldyBUdWVzZGF5IHdlIGFyZSBjb21wYXJpbmcgdGhlIE5hcmV4IFJpY2h0ZXIgQ2hpc2VscyB2cyB0aGUgU3RhbmxleSA3NTBzLiBBcyBhbHdheXMsIEkgaGF2ZSBuZXZlciBhbmQgd2lsbCBuZXZlciB0YWtlIG1vbmV5IGZvciBwYWlkIHJldmlld3MuIFRoZXNlIGFyZSB0b29scyBJIGhhdmUgcHVyY2hhc2VkIGFuZCB1c2VkIGV4dGVuc2l2ZWx5LiBJZiB5b3UgY2FuIHRoaW5rIG9mIGEgYmV0dGVyIG5hbWUgdGhhbiBUdWVzZGF5IFRvb2wgUmV2aWV3cyAoTm90IC4uLg%3D%3D&shhk=OQ8Lde46XTG4rYpaaXcJGG4TL0m5HMfAmRyamQLCUwk%3D&form=VDSHOT&shth=OSH.znxxtf0MspqW0d5LXBuN6Q
Just saw the KM video (and Wood by Wright) and backs appear to be really highly polished a la L-N. Nice side geometry too. I think I'll probably get these.
I don't think you'll regret it. Just make sure it is the Richters plus they come in a nice wooden box, handy if these are your job site set.
I used some at a class. They wouldn't hold an edge. Too soft. The school owner said he talked to the Stanley rep, who told him that it was intentional, to make sharpening easier.
I wouldn't use them if I was given a set.
Thanks...and that's about ALL I need to know...wow
With Narex you have to specify which one, the ones I have are the so-called "premium", the ones without the hoops and darker handles. They have lower side bevels. IMO the are the best value for the price - not the best, but I've been using them for joinery and they suffice. Edge retention is not the greatest on the Narex and worse on the 750.
For me the 750's are too light, too short and the handle is too small. If you have big hands they are not what you want.
Prep time on both are more than you'd like. You'll have to start with pretty coarse grit unless you want to be there all day. Took me like 3 hours to do the 6 whole Narex chisels.
All that said, for your intentions they will do fine.
I'd take a strong look at the WoodRiver chisels. Cosman did a review of Woodriver vs. Richter. He's biased to WC, but I think he did a decently fair comparison.
You might also take a look at the blue handle Irwin Marples if you want a firmer chisel. They aren't so bad once you get them tuned up hold an edge a little better than Narex.
Thanks for your feedback, appreciated
All the Narex chisels seem high (but not excellent) quality to me - although I haven't tried the Richers .... but the reviews of them are all very good, by a variety of people.
The least expensive Narex chisels (those with the lighter coloured handles and metal hoops) seem to come as well made as those with the stained & fatter handles. I don't see any big difference in the steel when sharpening or using; and Narex seem to say the steel is the same. Only the Richers have some sort of "improved" steel.
Nor did it take me anything like hours to flatten the slight milling marks out of the backs, smooth the main bevel of milling marks then put on a secondary bevel. I would guess between 5 and 15 minutes per chisel, with most at the shorter times. This using various 3M microgrit papers on glass.
I have their mortise chisels; their dovetail chisels (with the sharp aris and a hollowed-out back, a la Japanese chisels); a long pairing chisel (20 degree bevel); a 2" wide cranked chisel (dark fat handle); two skewed chisels and two of their cheapest bench chisels.
All of the above seem high quality to me albeit I don't use them all day long 5 days a week. They hold an edge better than the original Marples blue-handled chisels I have, which are themselves pretty good for inexpensive chisels.
The Narex take far less time to make right when new than do the chisels I have from Hirsch and Two Cherries, although the steel seems similar. Both take a good edge that last a reasonable time and are easy to first strop back to sharp then eventually re-sharpen. The Hirsch and Cherries came with polished backs - but also the associated heavily dubbed edges as a result.
There may be chisels that are better in various ways but Narex are at that critical point on the slope of the graph showing diminishing returns - 85-90% performance of the best quality stuff at 25% of the price. ..... Excluding exotic Japanese stuff at hundreds of dollars each, mind. :-)
Of course, there are other considerations besides the metal and the initial condition of the blades, particularly the ergonomics. Some don't like the dark fat handles of the mid-range Narex, for example.
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Another brand worth considering is Ashley Iles - a similar price to Narex, overall, and getting very good reviews for both the quality of the metal and their initial condition when new.
Whilst the Narex tend to have backs near-flat but with some milling scratches (needing a bit of rubbing out) the Iles come with a very slight hollow to their backs, which greatly speeds the initial flattening as only the peripheries of the backs need rubbing flat.
I have only two Iles chisels, one of which is the 1/16" wide item, which is not an easy thing to make well, apparently. Mine works, though.
Lataxe
Your assessment is spot on for the the original Narex lines, but it seems Narex set out to prove something for their 100th anniversary and went all out on the Richters to prove they could compete with the best, based on many reviews and first hand experience I would say they succeeded.
Thanks for comments and observations, appreciated.
If you do get the Richters please let us know what you think
Will do.
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