Does anyone know if there are tap and dies available for Stanley planes? I have a couple of plane beds where the threaded metal rod that holds the handles broke off flush with the bed. I can’t seem to clean out the screw hole so I wanted to drill a new hole and thread it but I realize that Stanley had a proprietary tap and dies made for their tools. Hopefully something aftermarket is available.
Thanks Mike
Tell me and I’ll forget, show me and I’ll remember, but let me try and I will understand.
Replies
MSC is a very large supplier for machine shops and they have quite a selection of taps and dies in what have become obsolete thread sizes. You can find them at mscdirect.com.
John White, Shop Manager, Fine Woodworking Magazine
Thanks John!. I'll give them a try. Anyone know what size I need?
Tell me and I'll forget, show me and I'll remember, but let me try and I will understand.
Edited 9/29/2006 4:44 pm ET by mvflaim
Stanley used a weird thread size for the threaded rods in there planes I think it is 12-24 or something like that. There are several websites devoted to Stanley planes that cover them. Anyway the dies are very hard to find. You might try St. James bay in Mesa AZ for the parts. Good luckTroy
I just had a screw break off on one of the jaws of my Nova chuck and was able to remove it with a GRABIT. Very similar to the old "easy out". I have also removed broken off screws in the past by starting with a very small prick punch in the center of the screw and then a 1/32 drill and work up till I'am nearly to the root of the thread and when the walls of the hollowed out screw are thin enough use the prick punch to collapse the walls inward.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Hi Bruce,
That's what I've been trying to do with my No 3 Bed. The screw was so rusted that it just snapped off and then I drilled through the remaining of the screw until I'm just at the walls of the thread. I can't seem to pry the remaining of the screw away from inside the the thread walls. I may need to buy a dental pick and try it with that. The only thing I have pointy enough is my awl which isn't working at all.
Thanks Mike
Tell me and I'll forget, show me and I'll remember, but let me try and I will understand.
mv,
Might want to try and find an aerosol product called "PB blaster" at auto or hdwe stores. It is the best penetrating, rust loosening stuff I've tried. A shot or two of that, and the remnants of that bolt will be easier to pick loose, I betcha. Good for breaking bolts loose, (before you break 'em off).
Ray Pine
Hi Ray,
I'm a proud owner of PB Blaster and most of the time it comes to save the day but this time it couldn't do the job. It looked like the previous owner stuck on some other manufacturers front knob and screwed in a bolt that didn't quite fit the plane but forced it in good enough for it to stay. The bolt was completely rusted away and when I tried to unscrew it, it broke off immediately. It sucks because it's a Stanley 3C with three Pat'd dates behind the frog. Could be a gem of a plane if I could just clean the screw thread.
Tell me and I'll forget, show me and I'll remember, but let me try and I will understand.
Edited 10/3/2006 8:53 am ET by mvflaim
I guess I don't quite understand your problem. If you have a replacement threaded rod or bolt for the knob that should give you the size of the tap you need to clean out the hole. The thread size would have to be very exotic to not be carried in the MSC catalog. If you are going to make a new rod to replace the one that broke off you can use a common thread size and retap the bed to that size.
John W.
Hi John, I basically have another knob and rod from another Stanley plane I'll be using. I don't know how to "read" the thread count on a screw so I needed the help.
Thanks for the info Rick. I'll give them a try.
MikeTell me and I'll forget, show me and I'll remember, but let me try and I will understand.
The proper way to get a thread count is to use a thread gauge, they come in various forms, the common type looks like a stubby feeler gauge set with each leaf having a set of notches on it and the number of threads per inch stamped on the side of the leaf. If you don't have a thread gauge, just match up the unknown threads against a modern screw at the hardware store and read the threading off of the parts bin.
A #12 screw is a bit smaller in diameter than the common 1/4 inch thread. I think that the toggle type wall anchors may still use a #12-20 thread.
John W.
Edited 10/4/2006 11:42 am ET by JohnWW
The size is 12-20.
You can cut the outside threads by using an adjustable 1/4-20 Greenfield"Little Giant"die and adjusting it all the way in.
Rutland Tool lists a 12-20 tap- Model#:21440079 Catalog Page#:110
Hope this helps.
Rick W
Edited 10/3/2006 9:25 am by RickW
Looked up 12-20 in the MSC catalog and they have neither a tap or a die in that size. Stanley went out of their way to create an oddball size, it isn't even listed in my Machinery's Handbook. I'd go up to the very common 1/4-20 size rather than waste time trying to restore the original threads.
John W.
Looked up 12-20 in the MSC catalog and they have neither a tap or a die in that size. Stanley went out of their way to create an oddball size, it isn't even listed in my Machinery's Handbook.
Yep - it's an old, proprietary thread.
I'd go up to the very common 1/4-20 size rather than waste time trying to restore the original threads.
I prefer to try to keep old tools original where possible.
BugBear
If the tool has value as a collectable it is worth making the effort, but if the plane is a very common one that is going to be a user it isn't worth the trouble.
John W.
If the tool has value as a collectable it is worth making the effort, but if the plane is a very common one that is going to be a user it isn't worth the trouble.
Call me an idealist - I try to do the best job I can at all times.
BugBear
I don't consider that to be idealistic, it's ambitious. But I do agree with John here. If the plane is going to be a user, then I would think doing the best I can would be to get it back to 100% usability, not necessarily 100% authenticity.
If the purpose of the repair is to create a usable tool without wasting time and money, granted that's a practical rather than an idealistic point of view, then retapping the plane body is a perfectly good approach that doesn't compromise either the function, the appearance, or the durability of the tool.
I repair and restore tools all the time, and not all tools qualify for museum grade restorations, so I let the specifics of the tool and its condition determine the best approach. In this case, unless the plane has above average value because of its history or rarity, there is nothing to be gained by trying to restore some Stanley engineer's ill chosen thread size.
John W.
Edited 10/4/2006 2:13 pm ET by JohnWW
JohnWW said:
...some Stanley engineer's ill chosen thread size."
If I were a betting man, I'd wager that the Sales Department, specifically the Parts Sales department had a hand in that decision.
David C.
JohnWW said:...some Stanley engineer's ill chosen thread size."If I were a betting man, I'd wager that the Sales Department, specifically the Parts Sales department had a hand in that decision.David C.I think you'd lose; AFAIK the decisions were taken before standards
for threads had been widely adopted, and the decisions taken were quite sound, from a M/E point of view.After that it was just backwards compatibility. BugBear
Bugbear said:
"I think you'd lose; AFAIK the decisions were taken before standardsfor threads had been widely adopted, and the decisions taken were quite sound, from a M/E point of view.
After that it was just backwards compatibility."
Lol...would'nt be the first time I lost! I stay far away from the casinos.
Of course you are right.
David C.
I'll wager a guess that it is a standard tap, albeit an odd ball. My guess is that it is a 12-20 Whitworth thread. The TPI of British and American threads are the same, but the thread angle is different.
>>I'll wager a guess that it is a standard tap,
>> albeit an odd ball. My guess is that it is a 12-20
>> Whitworth thread.It is (fairly) well known to be #12, 20 TPI.But that isn't a standard. Never was.The OD is standard, the TPI is standard, the combination has NEVER been a standard.unless we're playing semantic games with the word standard. BugBear
My guess is he never read the rest of the thread and just thought he'd throw in his
-.02 cents in.
Since the house is on fire let us warm ourselves. ~Italian Proverb
I thought it might be a British standard, until I wiki'ed Whitworth.
My bad
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