woodcraft had a Saw Stop demo this past weekend and I went to check it out. I have to admit that it is not only a safe saw, its very impressive to look at how well its made. Of course the safety is the amazing part. The owner of the downing town pa store talked about it and then did the hot dog on a piece of plywood. Not even a nick on the dog. I’ve watched the you tube video many times but seing in person is cool. The guy even said hed take my saw and sell it on consignment. I think I’m going to start saving. It may take me a while, but you may see a good cabinet saw on sale here soon.
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Replies
Two thumbs up
Good luck with that bones - I missed our local demo, but I have wanted to get the saw for some time. Eventually, when funds allow.
David
I saw a demo last month, and I, too, just started my Sawstop Kitty. I just retired, and promised my wife that I would not buy a table saw until I have enough in the kitty for the Sawstop. I think by end of year I'll be there,
funding
The quick and easy way to fund the purchase is to sell a finger on the medical black market. There is, however, a certain irony to that approach. ;-)
Fund
You might have to start a fund for recharges too. I'm repeating a rumor I heard so this may not be true, in fact it may have been started by other saw makers. It goes something like this: After the saw activates the stop it costs $80.00 for the recharge to rearm it. That is a small price to pay to save a finger but the second part of the rumor is this: You can get false stops when the stop fires off and it wasn't a body part that caused it. This could get expensive at 80 bucks a pop. Anybody heard about this?
Warning... the above is unconfirmed rumor.
early on, I too heard that. I asked specifically about green wood misreading materials etc. The owner who's woodcraft is a sawstop service center, indicated that they originally had a very few that fired with green wood, but that they have made modifications to eliminate that (again his words) the cartridge to relace is 69 bucks and you in all likely hood would lose the blade, but there are reports of some blades being repaired such as forrest. He said a good test if you question if the material would fire the safety device (you cutting holding the material and contacting the blade at the same time) is to have the saw switch active but the blade not running and touch the material to the blade. If the light indicator on the switch flashes red it will trip the cartridge. Let's say I did get a cartridge to fire and it's 70 bucks pluss a repair cost on my forrest blade or a replacement. I think thats pretty cheap .vs. thousands and lost fingers or worse. While I always treat my current saw with respect and use a rule to never take my eye off the blade unless it's stopped, ya just never know what could happen. One guy at the demo previously had two run ins with saw blades and got away with stiches. I think he said his wife sent him.
light indicator on the switch
Then if you still want to cut the green wood, can you deactivate the stop? If so, could you inadvertantly leave the stop turned off? I don't mean to sound negative about this, It's quite an invention. Trying to keep an open mind after being kinda POed about the lawsuit. I know if I leave the tines facing up on the rake on the ground during yard work , "danger, rake!" lurks in the back of my mind and I never step on it. As soon as my wife bugs me about putting the tines facing down that danger light goes off and I start stepping on the rake.
resets
The safety feature can be deactivated. It's involves several steps (so it can't be done by accident), and once the saw is cutt off, it is automatically back on. So you can't set if and forget it. The story behind him getting the thing made is amazing too. He went to every mfg company and was turned down afraid that if they put it on one model they would need it on all and would face a lawsuit. It was the patent attorneys that saw the potential gold mine and said lets build a saw around the device and they did and they have quickly taken commercial markets and educational (whats left) by storm. The owner also mentioned a client who is an surgon and talks about that the average accident involves severing three fingers and bills and rehab are huge compared to a possible nick and a wasted blade. Pretty easy math. I just wish I could get it now.
There is more to the Sawstop story than one side
Bones:
Several of the tablesaw makers were highly interested in licensing the sawstop technology from the reading I have done. However, the Engineer/Attorney who invented the system played hardball. He refused to accept any share of product liability if the system failed, wanted a higher percent of the selling price on each saw than could be justified, and the saw manufacturers were to be restricted from seeking other solutions to the problem of accidental cuts causing finger loss. He basical told them you make saws my way, and only my way or else I'll put you out of business through litigation. Given the snotty attitude, demind for higher percent of profits, and no assumed risk of the maker of SawStop, the current manufacturers had no choice but to form a coallition and find a system equal to or even better than the sawstops system. Keep in mind the Sawstop has the same level of problems with kickback, which I understand generatesmore tablesaw injuries that cut (off) fingers. The industry is even now working together to build a safety system that is reliable, effective, and can be easily turned off when appropriate
gdblake
Personally, I dont own a Sawstop saw though I wish I did. But nothing can stop someone form disabling the safety systems and cutting freehad with nor protection.
Sawstop
The safety feature can be turned off if you think there is a chance of the brake firing when you don't want it to, such as for a piece of wood with high moisture content. And I believe the saw will reset with the safety feature on each time the saw is turned off and on again.
That's what I did, then clouds separated and a rainbow appeared
I can't help but share my SawStop purchase with you even it is bragging a little bit.
I too was like you saving up for a SawStop. I wanted the contractor's saw because it was cheaper than the cabinet saw and far easier to get down in my basement workshop.
At the time I was a member of a woodturning club in Cincy and Steve Shanasee, the editor of Popular Woodworking, was a member. He sent an email to all the turning club members saying that they just finished a review of the SawStop contractor saw and would like to sell it for half of retail. You see, SawStop still owned the saw but didn't want to have it shipped back to Oregon so selling it was the cheapest way to go. As soon as I saw the email I jumped on the chance and called Pop Wood to see if it was still availble.
The saw was loaded with everything but I told Pop Wood that I didn't need all the bells and whistles that came with saw and was wondering if I could just buy the parts that I needed. SawStop agreed, so I told Pop Wood which things I didn't need like the extra fence, the mobile base, the dado cartridges, etc. and they forward the email to SawStop. SawStop agreed to arrangement and sent me an invoice. So I called them up, gave them my credit card number and bought the saw.
Pop Wood was suppose to take all the extras off the saw and ship them back to SawStop. However, SawStop sent me an email saying they still didn't want to pay for shipping the extras back to them so I could have the saw the way it was. Cha Ching!!!!! I was ecstatic to say the least. I just got a fully loaded table saw for dirt cheap.
Sometimes a blind squirrel finds a nut. The saw is incredible and worth every penny even if I would have paid double, or more for it.
Did you buy a lottery ticket on the way home! Congratulations on the deal!!!
Running on borrowed time
I cut the pad of my thumb once with the table saw. Just the very tips of the saw teeth made two little red slices about 1/2" long. I consider this an incredible lucky streak considering the thousands of hours I've spent behind the table saw.
I have been hurt by things flying out of the table saw at me on a few occasions. I took a knot between the eyes which made me see stars and bled profusely but didn't need stitches I've had warpy 1/4" plywood thrown at me a couple of times, worse than a hard kidney punch. I also had a little rip ejected so hard that it went through the solid core door behind me when the push stick got between the rip and the fence.
I don't know if Sawstop can protect you from things flinging out of the saw at you. So you are still vulnerable to that danger.
I do think about that unprotected blade spinning through the slot in the saw table and how easily it would slice off your fingers, or you whole arm, in the blink of an eye. I am concerned about a lapse in attention or stumbling or slipping.
Yes, I think it would be nice to have a Sawstop before my number's up. How much do they cost?
Be careful, Bret
Congratulations on your decision. I hope you enjoy using your SawStop as much as I enjoy mine. It is a great saw and the safety feature is just extra "insurance."
The sawstop is a fine tablesaw. I've had mine for 4 1/2 years with nary a misfire...I did trigger the brake when I tried to cut a zero clearance oinsert without taking off the riving Knife....the riving knife does cut down the risk for kickback and I have never had a single incident of kickback (as opposed to my previous saw, a Delta contractor with a splitter). I don't have a single complaint about the saw and highly recommend it
Neil, with all ten fingers (and toes)
Sawstop Contractors
A little over 2 years ago I finally decided to replace my 30+ year old Craftsman table saw. I asked a freind for suggestions who is my go to guy for woodworking and has tons of experience. His father and both brothers were/still are in the business as well. Without hesitation he told me if he was replacing his he'd get a SawStop. It was definitely more than I had planned on spending but once I looked into it and thought about it I felt I'd really feel even worse if I did get something else and had an accident that the SawStop would have helped prevent. Anyway, I did go for it along with the extended table and upgraded fence etc and have to say I've been thrilled with it to date. I'd say the time from the blade stops spinning until you can start it again is maybe 2 seconds so not a big issue to me personally.
The saw is so much better than my old Craftsman (which I guess really isn't saying much) that along with the bit of added peace of mind it provides me with has been a decision I never look back and second guess myself about. Good luck.
Jim
No Pawls...
Presumably you have to use the guard, riving knife, and the pawls because of company policy, the Sawstop will run without them installed. The pawls are more likely to cause and accident than prevent one and are hardly needed on a saw with a riving knife, maybe you can get management to relent.
Correct.
You are right about me using the pawls because of policy. However, I doubt I can get the company policy changed.
John'
How does the use of anti kickback pawls increase the likelihood of an accident?
Neil
I second the explanation request.
John, I too would like to understand how safety pawls can actually cause accidents. I'd never heard that before.
Excalibur
The sawstop I saw the demo on at the downing town woodcraft had an excalibur sliding table attached. I have to admit that thing is sweet ans smooth as silk. For me panel cutting is not for the table saw. I'd have to horse it up there. I use the festool TS55 and rails and it's so much easier. I put the large panel on top of a piece of 2" thick hard insulation on the floor and the cut is easy and true and dust free. My current tablesaw has 7' rails and I have not needed that space in ages. Next saw will not have the long rails. I have an overarm guard on my current TS and I love the new attachement for the sawstop. I think the best part is it is easily removed and added back so it makes you more inclined to use it. Same goes for the riving knife. Thanks for the comment about the blade spin down, I had not noticed that, but like you said a small price to pay for the safety.
Not just for panels
Sure, sliding table saws are great for large panels, but they make most other cuts easeir too, I find. There is almost no friction between the stock and the table (the offcut does slide on the table to the right of the blade. What I really like is that by clamping the stock to the table, I don't have to push the stock - I can just push the table and keep my hands well clear of the blade. I also don't have to worry about accidently applying any english to the material.
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