Replies

1. 
   forestgirl | May 02, 2005 06:52am | #1

   Hi Kyle, welcome back to the WWing world! (frustrations and all....)  The fence doesn't have anything to do with miters.  [Edit:  sorry, I was focused on the picture frames]  Are you meaning "the miter gauge sucks"?

   The way around that would be to build a crosscut sled dedicated to 45* angles.  Lots of plans out there, it's a basic design.  LMK if I'm reading you right.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
   Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

   
   

   ---

   Edited 5/2/2005 2:09 pm ET by forestgirl

1. 
   Kyle | May 03, 2005 04:02am | #4

   Hey thanks for the advice.

   Your correct, I think I did say fence, I meant mitre gauge. I have thought about getting a new one, however, I would rather save the money and invest it into a new saw (with all the "trimmings"). I have been researching table saws and I am still undecided. When I quit doing woodworking before, I sold everything I had. Now I am trying to buy everything again. I have a 12 inch Dewalt compound miter box, a Bosch plunge router with fixed base, Craftsman table saw, and some other assorted small items. I want to get a jointer and a planer and I should be set up pretty good.

   I will try to find some plans for that jig online.

   Thanks again. I appreciate it.

   Kyle

1. 
   WayneL5 | May 03, 2005 04:57am | #7

   Often when using a miter gauge the wood slips along the face of the gauge as the wood is passed through the blade resulting in a cut that is not exactly the angle the gauge is set for.  If you have a hold down on the miter gauge you should use it.  Another technique is to glue sandpaper to the face of the gauge to provide a less-slippery surface, and be sure to hold the work tightly.

   You can test the accuracy of the miter gauge by setting the gauge precisely and cutting two opposing 45° miters.  Put the ends of the boards together and check the angle with a square.  If you don't have a square, cut four pieces (like a picture frame, oh, you're already doing that!) and check it that way.  You can adjust the gauge if needed.

   If all the corners are off the same, it may be your gauge.  If they are inconsistent, I'd suspect slipping.

2. 
   Ricks503 | May 04, 2005 12:29am | #9

   I have yet to see a table saws stock miter gauge that was much good. 

   Invest in a good miter gauge and look into building a crosscut sled with miter options.

    

    1 - measure the board twice

   2 - cut it once

   3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go

   4 - get a new board and go back to step 1

3. 
   Steinmetz | May 04, 2005 02:28am | #10

   Kyle, before you spend your money on a new fence/miter gauge,just screw on a length of 1x4 to the miter gauge. There's two slots at the back for the screws.

   Before fully tightening the screws, with one hand, hold the unit down tightly to the table and into the table's slot, then tighten the two screws with the other hand.
   Next, cut and fit a length of coarse belt sanding cloth to the 1x4Ninety times out of one hundred failed miters, are due to 'slipping' of the workpiece. the sandpaper solves that prob. Stein Oh, I forgot ....make the wood wider, so you can cut it off at both ends with the saw running., (use both table slots)and thus, achieve a 'zero clearance'edge on either end.Don't cut into the sanding belt with the blade Cut the wood ends first, then glue the paper a bit scant to avoid dulling the blade. Stein

   Edited 5/5/2005 10:02 pm ET by steinmetz

2. 
   forestgirl | May 02, 2005 06:53am | #2

   PS:  before anything, you need to be sure the saw is tuned properly.  Safe to assume that's been done?

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
   Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

3. 
   DonC | May 02, 2005 07:12am | #3

   I assume some of your miters are ripped with the fence and blade tilted to 45. You can probably continue to use your present crummy fence if you are willing to put up with the hassle of measuring every rip cut. To do this set your fence at desired width. Pick a tooth on the blade and mark it with a felt tip marker. Measure the distance from tooth to fence at the front of the blade. Now rotate the same tooth away from you and measure again from tooth to fence. When both measurements coincide, you are good to go.

   It is probably better to just buy an aftermarket fence BUT maybe the saw you have isn't worth putting money into.

   When you tilt your blade to 45 check it with a draftsman triangle or known 45 and reference of the plate ot the balde and don't let it touch any teeth.

   For picture frame miters, just make the cut as close to 45 as your saw allows and touch up the miters with a disc sander OR use a bench plane and shooting board set-up for 45 trimming.

1. 
   Kyle | May 03, 2005 04:07am | #5

   Hey DONC4,

   Thanks! I checked out the blade like you told me. It was a little out of wack, so I am trying to fix it.

   I am trying to research what saw to buy. I don't want to invest into a fence or miter for this one. I want to get something really nice.

   Thanks again,

   Kyle

1. 
   BG | May 03, 2005 10:05pm | #8

   Kyle,
   Regardless of which TS you buy or when you'll need a good miter guage. Miter guages are invloved in almost all my cross cuts...so they are a very important tool that is used a lot. Yes, you can modify the one that comes with the saw, but, to be honest, you need an aftermarket miter that is easy to set up and use. There is a sale on the Incra 1000se and they are one of the best. You'd probably be surprised how it will improve that old craftsman saw too. 

1. 
   forestgirl | May 04, 2005 09:27pm | #14

   And, if you don't want to fork out for the Incra 1000, you can get the basic V27, which is the head and adjustable bar; make your own fence.  It'll run you a little over $50.  I have the old version of the 1000, would love to have the SE.  If you buy one, you'll use it even when you get a new saw!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   Kyle | May 05, 2005 02:26pm | #16

   Hey,

   Thanks again for the information.

   What is your opinion on a good table saw and jointer?

   Kyle

2. 
   forestgirl | May 05, 2005 07:28pm | #18

   "What is your opinion on a good table saw and jointer?"  Big topic!  Depends on your budget and what kind of work you'll be doing.  For a hobbyist, it's hard to go wrong with most of the jointers from well-known companies (Jet, Delta, Grizzly).  A sleeper is Yorkcraft, but I've heard the shipping charges are pretty steep.  I own a Jet 6" jointer that I bought at the scratch-n-dent place down the road from their Auburn facility.  I've been very happy with it.  Had I not been able to get a Jet so cheap ($385) I probably would have bought a Grizzly.

   Table saws are a bit more complicated.  What's your budget?  What kind of work do you anticipate doing (small to medium stuff?  cabinets?) Are you anticipating buying a contractor's saw or a cabinet saw?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

3. 
   MarkRD | May 05, 2005 09:11pm | #19

   Do a search here and in Tool Talk on Tablesaws. There are several threads on the topic.FG is right on with her questions.Personal opinon: If I had $2000 - $2500 I go for the Sawstop cabinet saw. (http://www.sawstop.com)If I had $1800 - Delta or PowermaticIf I had $1200 probably the grizzly cabinet (Is that the right price for the griz?)I'm really starting to wish I had a 3hp saw - my 1-hp saw just doesn't "cut it" when working with 1.25" plus stock...Mark

   Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.

4. 
   forestgirl | May 06, 2005 03:12am | #20

   The Grizzly 1023S (3HP) Cabinet saw runs $1,033 including shipping.  It doesn't get up into the $1200 range unless you get the 5HP version, or add the long rails (that's when the Unisaw starts being price-competitive with the Grizzly, right?).

   Question is, what about a budget under $1000??  I'd be looking at the Grizzly G0444Z @$653, includes cast iron wings.  Or, the General contractors saw, which is remarkably similar but runs around $750 or $800 I think.  A friend of mine has the General, and it's reallllly nice.

   [Mark, if you "Reply" the originator's post {rather than the last post made} they're more likely to see it.  Just thought I'd mention it.]forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

5. 
   MarkRD | May 06, 2005 03:28am | #21

   Thanks for the correction FG.Yes I forgot the General. Lots of people here really like them. I've no experience with most of the brands (my dad and my uncle both have the 3 hp Delta - they love them).I met a grizz user and he was happy. But one datapoint per brand does not make a survey :-)Mark

   Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.

6. 
   Kyle | May 07, 2005 04:49am | #23

   Hey,

   I can't figure out how to reply to all, so I hope everyone sees this.

   Thanks for the advice.

   I think the next items I would like to buy are a jointer, bandsaw, and drill press. In that order.

   As far as what am I trying to do. Starting out I want to do small things. When I graduated from high school I went to work for an old German woodworker. We built furniture and cabinets, along with everything else, I once turned about 150 staircase spindles for an entire week, then he made me hand sand everyone of them. Along with the treads. That was an education. We would build and install custom kitchen cabinets. Anyway, I would like to get back into cabinets and furniture eventually.

   I like to buy tools based on quality not necesarilly on cost. Although a lot of times they go hand in hand. I will take the time to save the money up to get a good tool. So I will research it for as long as I need to before I buy it. So any advice on anything you guys can tell me is greatly appreciated.

   Thanks again for your advise,

   Kyle

7. 
   BG | May 07, 2005 03:00pm | #24

   Kyle,
   Lots of opinions on what comes first, but given what you want to do...planner, bandsaw, router/router table, block plane(minimum)...drill press.....jointer. 

4. 
   Roger1 | May 03, 2005 04:24am | #6

   Hi Kyle; I took a box making class at Palomar College and they taught us to use the miter gauge set at 90 degrees and tilt the blade to 45 degrees. It worked out the secind time I tried it. First, make sure the miter gauge is set to 90 degrees! Check it by cutting a squared board about 12 inches long and 2 inches wide with the blade set to 90 degrees. Mark the board first with lines so you know the top side. Cut the board laying flat on the saw, and check the cut by flipping the board over so now one side top is on the bottom. If your board was square before, your blade was at 90 degrees, and your miter was set to 90 degrees, your two boards should fit back together with one board top now on the bottom. Set the boards on edge on your saw table. Use a plastic 45, 90 degree square you buy at the stationery store. If your boards are off, adjust the miter gauge to 90 degrees again.

   Now that your miter gauge is set to 90 degrees, set your blade to 45 degrees, using the plastic gauge and looking at the light gap between the plastic gauge and the saw blade. Now cut a board at 45 degrees using your miter gauge and check it to your plastic guage. Adjust your saw blade again to 45 if the cut is not correct. Mine turned out great the second try. Use a stop on your miter gauge to make sure your boards are all the same length. Good luck with the boxes. Roger

    

5. 
   cherryjohn | May 04, 2005 02:34am | #11

   Buy a Mikita sliding compound mitre saw

   Wicked Decent Woodworks

   (oldest woodworking shop in NH)

   Rochester NH

   " If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"

6. 
   vertis | May 04, 2005 05:18am | #12

   Have you thought about a miter saw instead it will make your life alot easier(sleds yeh right) LOL Pete.

7. 
   kenshep | May 04, 2005 05:26am | #13

   I saw a jig for fine tuning a miter with a handplane.  buy a good handplane and you can "shoot" your miters and have the plane for several other good purposes.  Your hobbyist table saw will likely be a bother on detail work.  Get it close enough and fine tune with the plane.

    

   Regards,

   Ken

   "Do as you would be done by." C.S. Lewis

8. 
   user-343246 | May 05, 2005 02:13am | #15

   Here's a sled I made the other night for cutting perfect 90 degree corners. It took about half an hour to make and it will work better than any miter gauge. I made the runners by ripping pieces of 1/4" plywood as wide as the miter slot and stacking them two deep.

   Clamp the runners to the 3/4" plywood (2' x 2' works fine). Then screw the runners in place. Glue or screw an end block onto the plywood. Be careful where you put your screws, you don't want to saw into them. Now, saw halfway down the sled. Next, attach the 'square' so that it makes a nice 45 degree angle. Done. Cut one side of the joint on the left side, the other on the right. Perfect 90.

   Mine looks funny because I was making a right angle from pieces of two different widths (1-1/4" and 2"), so I needed a 32/58 miter.

   -Matt

   
1. 
   Kyle | May 05, 2005 02:29pm | #17

   Toolwork,

   Thanks for the plans. I was going to try and make the one out this months FWW magazine, however, yours looks a lot more simple.

   Thanks,

   Jesse

9. 
   BarryO | May 06, 2005 09:38pm | #22

   For small stuff I seem to have the best luck tilting the saw blade.  I cut two pieces, and put them against each other to form a right angle.  I check this with a machinist's square, and tweak the blade tilt until the two cut pieces give a perfect 90 degrees as measured to the precision of the square.  Once I do this, a box made with opposite sides of the same length gives pretty tight miters.