Replies

1. 
   jackplane | Apr 27, 2005 08:37pm | #1

   hey ernie,

   You sound highly skilled, but happen to live in an area that doesn't support this talent. Maybe thru luthier associations and contacts you could sell your work in more upscale spots like New York, or where musicians gather like Nashville, via UPS.

    

1. 
   glueguy | Apr 27, 2005 09:32pm | #3

   Thanks for  the prompt reply In my opinion most  luthier organizations are frankly worthless self aggrandizing associations. Marketing is my problem , I have 10 instruments to finish next week. Guitar shows are far from KC and I have 2 high schoolers to look after school . Long trips are not a great option.

1. 
   jackplane | Apr 27, 2005 10:26pm | #8

   I can understand. My local woodworker's guild wants 25$ ayear to join, not much,but then on their application wants to know if I have a workshop they can use!

    I think it helps to look at the positive here; you like some others, live far away from a lucrative market or markets. But because of this your shop costs and overhead are lower and more competitive, so it's really a matter of selling your work in profitable areas, not necessarily that you have to be in those areas.

     Chris Becksvoort, a highly talented furniture maker lives way out in God knows where Maine, but does good business cause his marketing game is top-notch. 

1. 
   TonLoc | Apr 27, 2005 10:37pm | #10

   Have you considered getting an endorsement? I mean think of an artist who would use your instrument well and contact them to see if you can get them to try one. Than kind of exposure can be huge and will likely only cost one instrument.  Also, shops like Elderly Instruments in Lansing Michigan carry some very expensive hand built guitars. Try contacting them as a start.  they are at: http://www.elderly.com/

2. 
   DJK | Apr 27, 2005 11:35pm | #12

   Chris B. says he only makes about $30k a year.DJK

1. 
   glueguy | Apr 28, 2005 12:40am | #14

   Hi I want to thank all of you for your timely advice. Lots of words of wisdom, I will check out the trade mags haven/t thought of that, and  going to trade shows is probably the bet way to  meet professional  musicians with  money. To sawdust thanks for your input . No I don/t have a poor attitude , and I do my own kitchen prep work. After spending 27 yrs fixing  many poor quality instruments  I got tired of it . Yes, you can run a full time shop fixin  furniture or instruments. I have jumped into just making instruments full time . I tried  making while doing repairs and it is too time consuming, You are neither here or there. Thanks again for all the great suggestions. I will start marketing ernie

2. 
   adastra | Apr 28, 2005 07:00am | #15

   Ernie,I'm in Lawrence, you might contact Mass Street Music here. The owner is a very well connected person. He appaises instruments for the Antiques Roadshow nationally. A phone call couldn't hurt, he's very supportive of local talent. My two cents.

3. 
   glueguy | Apr 28, 2005 05:49pm | #16

   Hi and Thanks . I visited jim last year. There is no market for classical and flamenco guitars in this area. Mass primarily sells high end steel string guitars. Great shop Thanks for your suggestion.

4. 
   adastra | Apr 29, 2005 01:09am | #17

   Flamenco and classical. That does sound like a tough sell around here.Probably more of a coastal and possibly southwest thing. Sounds kind of like the market for instrument bows. Very rarified but if you can get in its great. A friend's father makes bows and manages a comfortable living in Michigan. Needless to say he sells nationally, not just in Michigan. Ever thought of moving to Spain? I'm kidding but wish I could provide you with some leads on how to become known to the flamenco and classical world. My neighbor works for Mass Street, I'll ask him if he has any suggestions. He's going down to Austin to visit with Collings soon, I know they make steel string but they might have some ideas.He tells me that its primarily lawyers and businessmen that buy those high end guitars. Hobbyists that want the best. Kind of like those weekend warriors with PM 66's. Feel free to contact me through e-mail. My neighbor is a guitar hound and might have some helpful ideas.Best of luck.

5. 
   glueguy | Apr 29, 2005 05:32am | #19

   Thanks for your suggestions just about finished a huge workbench , have 10 instruments to complete. I/ve spoken to jim at mass music. I  haven/t built a steel string yet . Will build  a mold later this summer regards ernie

6. 
   cherryjohn | Apr 29, 2005 12:13pm | #21

   Dont get lost in the romance.  A business is first and foremost an income generator unless you have a trust fund.  If that is the case you can stand on ceremony and look with scorn on anything that you feel is below your level of talentWicked Decent Woodworks

   (oldest woodworking shop in NH)

   Rochester NH

   " If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"

2. 
   forestgirl | Apr 27, 2005 09:08pm | #2

   Ernie, as far as marketing the musical instruments, have you considered including a web site in your marketing?  If you can find local work to keep the bills paid, then do a few carefully selected trade shows for hands-on exposure and get the web site advertised.  If the instruments are well-received, the web site should expand your effective market way beyond your local area.  This'll take time, obviously, but it can certainly work. 

   One of our members, Albionworks (Tim) lives way out in the toolies but has done well with his niche market.  Here's a link to his web site.
   http://www.albionworks.net/

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
   Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   glueguy | Apr 27, 2005 09:41pm | #4

   Thanks for the reply. Several years ago I tried a website for 1 year with a 1-800 number all I got was tire kickers, looky loos, and time wasters. I /ve tried e-bay, but it/s a bargain basement store and the bids were far too low. I will have to do a few trade shows and follow up with a better website . Frankly, I asked a local violin guy about his site and he said it was  just an advertising medium that brought in  0 business. In the musical instrument business this generally holds true.Guess I will have to travel to trade shows, spend some serious $$ and do a lot of schmoozing. The only thing that worked was running a guitar and violin shop in L.A., but alas it was way to difficult to raise a family there.

1. 
   Kell | Apr 28, 2005 12:39am | #13

   Ernie,

   I hear you.  I've recently come across someone that makes custom pool cues and sells them through ebay and he's getting pretty good money for them.  You might want to check him out.  I'm not saying you should make pool cues but his techniques might transfer over to instruments.  Dale Perry cues, do an ebay search and you'll find 2 or 3 at any given time.  Check out his web site and you'll see the other side of it.  Looks to me like he sells 5 - 7 cues a week at an average price of about $600 dollars.  That's a nice living if his costs aren't too high.

   Good luck!

   Kell

2. 
   glueguy | Apr 27, 2005 09:48pm | #5

   Hi  I just checked out the gothic furniture. It/s impressive for sure. Glad he earns a living at it. thanks ernie

1. 
   forestgirl | Apr 27, 2005 10:17pm | #7

   "Glad he earns a living at it."  From my conversations with Tim, it's not a full-time living, but he seems to be doing pretty well.

   I don't envy you the challenge you face, especially if you're trying to raise a family at the same time.  Can't be a starving artist when there are kids involved.  DJK's suggestion of getting some magazine exposure is an excellent one.  More than one business has taken off from such "free advertising."  Louis Iturra has a story to tell about that!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

3. 
   DJK | Apr 27, 2005 10:09pm | #6

   Contact Wood Shop News and other trade mags. Get them to do a piece on your work.

   DJK

   I'm serius

4. 
   JohnSprung | Apr 27, 2005 10:34pm | #9

   There's an A.F. of M. local there:

   http://www.kcfm34-627.org/

   Perhaps an ad in a union newsletter would be the way to reach working professional musicians. 

    

   -- J.S.

    

    

5. 
   SawdustSteve | Apr 27, 2005 11:33pm | #11

   Hi Ernie... Sorry, but I detect a very poor attitude in your posting. It's sort of like a chef who complains that he loves to make fine food but hates to do the kitchen prep work. It seems to me that the repair part of the business (which you hate) is what brings the customers through the door. They may not buy a new instrument today, but if you scare them off, they won't be there to buy your instruments tomorrow. There must be a music school somewhere near you. Advanced students want instruments that fit their size and style of playing. Perhaps tey may be a source of work for you. How about a community band or 'seniors' orchestra? I remember Yitsack Perlman saying in an interview that he prefers the Amati to a Strad because the finger-board is a bit longer and with his large hands finds that the Amati 'fits' him better. Yes, trade shows are expensive to attend, but there may be some tax write-offs that can make the costs deductable. SawdustSteve

6. 
   nikkiwood | Apr 29, 2005 03:26am | #18

   I think you may want to rethink your attitude/strategy.

   I know a guy who makes acoustic guitars, and every single one he has sold has been by word of mouth. He is always booked 6 months to a year out, and the last I heard his price was about $2500-3000 each. I have no idea where this ranks for custom made guitars.

   I don't know exactly how he got started, but I do know he is a casual musician himself, so he does get out into that community.

   In your case I think you may be too scornful of the repair business, since that is an obvious contact with potential customers. I would suggest you send the cheap stuff on to someone else (unless it's worth your time financially), and try to cultivate repair work on high end instruments. The ability to schmooze with these folks is important, and I would always have 2-3 of your guitars around so they could sit down and strum one for a few minutes.

   After 30 years, I am surprised you seem to be struggling with this, even though you describe instrument making as your primary interest. How and to whom have you sold instruments in the past?

   "I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
   -- Bertrand Russell

1. 
   glueguy | Apr 29, 2005 05:40am | #20

    Hi perhaps I didn/t explain myself to well I don/t look down  on repair work, it/s  an honourable way to earn a living.  My family dosn/t want people coming to our home. Our subdivision  does not allow home based businesses.I was looking for marketing ideas. I plan to attend guitar trade shows  to  display my work. I have 10 instruments to make., After doing repairs for 27 yrs. I cannot make and do repairs a t the same time.I have too many responsibilities e.g. 2 teenagers  regards ernie

1. 
   WillGeorge | Apr 29, 2005 09:44pm | #24

   2 teenagers  .. I had four!  Three girls and 'THE' boy! ..I 'sort' of feel for ya!

7. 
   GRW | Apr 29, 2005 01:44pm | #22

   Ernie,

   Sounds like you're looking for a "profit center". Basically your are looking for a second source of income which can be generated with the tools you currently have. Smart. I'm would suggest wood products which support your current buisiness. You seem to have access to folks who 1) have money, 2) like to play music, 3) are likely listen to music often. Products such as music stands, speaker stands, stereo cabinets, boxes for guitar picks, maybe a stool/chair designed just for playing guitar.

   If you could sell 2 items to each customer instead of one, how would your buisness change?

    

1. 
   glueguy | Apr 29, 2005 04:29pm | #23

   GRW thanks You hit the target. I plan to sell my instruments at trade shows.I have designed an excellent long lasting chair for musicians and others, Your idea of accessories is right on . I was also thinking of  an entertainment center organizer for musicians, and  cabinets. I don/t like to put all my eggs in one basket. If the instruments don/t sell or move. I will shift over to accessories.Thanks again   for all the positive tips and suggestions from everyone.