Replies

1. 
   johnhardy | Feb 08, 2004 08:55pm | #1

   I can only extrapolate here. Carpenter's glue isn't meant for "wet" conditions. I think you'll have to put the raised panel (3/4 inches thick, probably) in the steam box for a very long time, and that this will damage the glue joint.

   I'd use something like epoxy for this application. Why screw around and have a possible failure? Make sure that your hard work and the $$$ spent for the materials isn't wasted.

   John

1. 
   general | Feb 08, 2004 09:08pm | #2

   I agree, carpenters glue probably isn't the best option.  I considered epoxy, but it is very brittle and I don't think it would take to bending very well.  What about Gorilla glue?  I've never used it but, I understand it is designed for outdoor use and therefore might be more durable to steam.

1. 
   johnhardy | Feb 08, 2004 09:53pm | #3

   Sounds to me like you're trying to make a raised panel for a curved door. I've seen articles about doing this, but none did it using steam bending. Have you thought of making a curved panel and then raising the panel? This would probably not only be easier, but you'd have a better idea of the curve of the door ... you could control the exact arc. Steam bending often involves spring back so you don't necessarily get the exact bend you want.

   That said, I would use epoxy. If you're worried about how this will go, make a sample panel (no routing of the raised panel ... it probably won't affect the process) and perform a sample steam bend. If the door is 3/4 inches thick, I'm not sure how long it needs to be in the steam box but am sure it's a very long time. You'll need to build some forms to bend the door to as well.

   John

2. 
   jgaiennie | Feb 08, 2004 10:20pm | #4

   Moroz,

   A great way to unglue a glue up error or an old piece that is need of repair is to apply heat.  The glue melts and the joint can then be easily disassembled and reworked.  Both carpenters' glue and some epoxies don't have a very high temperature tollerance.  I think both loose their adhesive properties at around 125 degrees F - at least the five minute epoxy that I often use for small jobs.  It's been a while but I was comparing temp tollerance of epoxies a while back and some are far more temp tollerant: I think up to 175.  To minimize your risk of frustration, be sure to check out the temp characteristics of any glue you're going to warm up, in addition to moisture tollerance. 

   jdg

3. 
   rslatm | Feb 09, 2004 08:17pm | #5

   Your question is anything but simple!

   I would say you would want to make stave type or coopered construction if you want solid wood panels.  Think of it as a section of a wooden barrel.  It's not feasible to bend glued up panels and that makes me have even more questions on exactly what you are trying to  do.  There have been numersous articles and sections in books that cover the process in detail.

   http://www.woodcentral.com/books/bird_shaping.shtml

   http://showcase.netins.net/web/iabonsai/LaRue/Sleigh.html
4. 
   GHR | Feb 09, 2004 08:53pm | #6

   Steam time is about 1 hour per in of thickness.

   If the panels are of any size at all, you will not get the panel up to temp without some serious equipment.

   If the pnels are of any size at all, you will not the panel bent without some serious equipment.

   Epoxy will soften before you will get the wood hot enough.

   Your glue will soften before you will get the wood hot enough.

1. 
   general | Feb 09, 2004 09:23pm | #7

   Thanks all,

   I'm trying to build a headboard for a bed with curved raised panels.  I think I will try to source some material the width of my desired panel size, which will eliminate the need to glue up a panel. 

1. 
   Alan | Feb 10, 2004 03:59am | #8

   Moroz3,

   If I were doing this I think I would get some bending ply, get that to the shape I want, and then veneer it with whatever wood I wanted.  As someone else mentioned, a coopered panel would also work.  In fact, a coopered panel might be easier to get and to stay the exact shape you want.

   This would preclude the usual sort raised panel, but you might still make a different kind raised panel.  Rather than sloping shoulders you could make it with flat shoulders:  i.e., have the raised middle and the shoulders "parallel" (parallel isn't the right word.  Because the panel will be bent, correctly speaking, the shoulders and the raised center wouldn't be parallel.  But I can't think of the right term right now--assuming I ever knew the right word).  You could then easily veneer both the shoulders and the raised middle.

   Alan

1. 
   eddiefromAustralia | Feb 10, 2004 09:51pm | #9

   Your terms are right there Alan - I think you were looking for two parallel planes

   Cheers,

   eddie

   Edited 2/10/2004 1:52:11 PM ET by eddie (aust)

1. 
   Alan | Feb 12, 2004 03:36am | #12

   Eddie,

   I thought a "plane" was flat.  If I remember my high school geometry correctly, a plane is a two dimensional entity defined by three "points" (a "point" being an axiomatic geometric entity).  Is my rememberer on the fritz--again?

   Alan

2. 
   eddiefromAustralia | Feb 12, 2004 02:20pm | #13

   No Alan,

   Your rememberer is remembering just fine.

   Two planes that never intersect are perfectly parallel and are oddly enough called parallel planes.

   CHeers,

   eddie

   (Who has just gotten in from a long day and is half asleep)

3. 
   joinerswork | Feb 12, 2004 04:23pm | #14

   Eddie and Alan,

   Could be the term you guys are looking for is concentric arcs?  As somebody said, a plane is flat, not curved.  Whatever...

   Ray

2. 
   jazzdogg | Feb 11, 2004 08:47pm | #11

   Moroz3,

   "I'm trying to build a headboard for a bed with curved raised panels. "

   This is the ideal application for a vacuum bag. You'd have a tool that you'd use over and over again after your new bed is built and you're sleeping in it - a very worthwhile investment.

   With a vacuum bag, you'd build a bending form to the contour of the headboard, apply glue to several layers of bending plywood or veneer, insert the form and glued-up panel in the vacuum bag, align everything carefully while the air is being removed from the sealed bag, and wait for the glue to cure. Using veneer - and the correct glue - can yield contoured panels suitable for your project.

   Good luck,PaulWhether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.

5. 
   ChasStanford | Feb 11, 2004 05:22pm | #10

   Shape these from thick stock.  Yep, a lot of the material will be lost as waste.