Steel City Bandsaws.. Under the Cover!
Warning: If you consider all Taiwanese tools as junk or below what you can afford to purchase in quality, don’t waste your time reading this!
They sat in a neat row toe to toe on the showroom floor at the Redmond & Son facility in Atlanta. General.. Shop-Fox.. Jet.. Steel City and Aggazani.. My over-all choice was the Agazanni, but the reality struck home that the price didn’t fit what most here have available to spend on a BS!
So… the question has been asked, have the boys at Steel City just copied the Delta or Jet that they formerly were employed by? Did they come down the same assembly line? I set out to find answers for the BS compartment and make my own un-baised comparison without professional help. They sure look the same in the pictures, but what’s really under the cover hidden from view?
Did they come down the same assembly line in Taiwan. Probably.. “mum” is the word even though how many assembly lines are they that make BS’s in Taiwan? Are the Steel City bandsaws a duplicate copy of the Jet? Not sure yesterday, but today’s answer is Absolutely NO!
Armed with tape measure, straight edge and micrometer, I covered almost every inch on three different sizes (16″..18″..20″) over 3 hours and many thanks to Stacy Davis from Steel City and Greg Hughes who has been assembling and installing machines at Redmond for years for the assist.
Jet had the glossier powder coat pearl paint job as SC had power-coat light grey for those that are impressed with paint jobs. :>) That said..
Jet gets the kudo for having a larger guide bar.. not necessarily sturdier in operational value. As long as the guide bar operates smoothly without play on a rack and pinion, thicker is not a major issue. Adjustment of.. below in text.
Jet gets the cud for having a metal tension and guide bar elevation handle. SC has a hard impact plastic-nylon impregnated one.
And the kudo’s stop there………
Both have re-enforced double trunnions under the table and single dust port. Tires and wheels comparable. All have the same length blades per model. The Jet has a tapered back box back-beam. The SC has a straight even dimension box back-beam. The fences on both are not at all bad and have the quickly re-movable round steel point fence up front for those of us that are point advocates (excludes the Pointer Sisters). The lower guides on both are fairly close to the bottom of the table as they should be for better support. You get a mitre gauge ( :>) )with the Jet and you get a work light with the CS.
***All three (16-18-20) SC’s have TWO identical size tension springs mounted side by side on the vertical carrier and that carrier that supports them is cast and much heavier on the SC. Only the 20″ Jet has a double spring and the Jet 18″‘s single spring is the same basic diameter and basic length as a single of the SC twins!
The SC 18″ carries a 2 HP…. The Jet 18″ a 1 3/4 HP…. SC 1 3/4 HP on the 16″ and Jet 1 1/2 HP… SC 20″ 3 HP and Jet 2 HP (go figure when Jet has a 3 HP available for about $350 more on their smaller 18″ but not so on the 20″) ??.
The SC 18″ and 20″ have tension release levers. None on any Jet..
The SC has a foot brake on the 18″ & 20″. Only the Jet 20″ has one.
The SC has the same large size roller bearing guides on all 3 models. The Jet has steel guides on the 16″, medium size roller bearing on the 18″ and larger guides on the 20″. Both models adjust basically the same with no tools required.
The SC has a larger table on the 16″s. The SC 18″ and SC 20″ is (20 x 20). larger than the Jet 18″. The Jet slightly larger on the 20″ at 21 x 21.
The SC’s upper beam over the table (base of top wheel compartment) is heavier than the Jet.
The SC has full adjustment for the guide bar to allow it to be positioned so that raising and lowering the guide bar does not result in having to re-adjust the guides when doing so.
The SC has larger and heavier bearing hubs that are held by 4 bolts and fully adjustable. The Jet has 3 bolts as most band saws I’ve seen.
The SC weights in at about 30 more pounds on all 3 models as the Jet.
And with all band-saws I’ve ever seen (including the high dollar Euro’s), I would take a hack-saw to the blade guide just below the guide rollers to eliminate that nuisance so I can see the adjustments and where the gullet is positioned on the blade without pulling the safety guide-plate off.
Those are the only differences in the saws that I caught in 3 hours even though they probably came down the same assembly line at the same manufacturer in Taiwan. If you don’t look farther than the price tag, the Jet is about $100 cheaper at current prices. $100 saved is $100 saved, right?Or maybe it would be wise to look beyond them?
I don’t know that I would make a lot of changes on the SC band-saws(exception of the choice of material in the crank handles) as I have waited for Jet.. Delta.. etc. to make several of those exact changes before I would even consider a purchase from them on a BS. And sorry I can’t provide any run-outs. I have a feeling that someone will come along and get them for you latter. :>)
I dunno…. maybe someone was listening, took a large gamble and re-located to Murfreesboro, Tennessee. Imagine that..
Let’s hope so!
SARGE..
Replies
Hey Sarge,
So, what are the prices for the Steel City saws? Are you saying the list price for an 18" Steel City saw is a hundred bucks more than list for Jet? If so, as a practical matter, the Jet is more than 100 bucks cheaper as nobody (sorry if someone did) actually pays list price for the Jet and Steel City is trying to avoid discounting from list, aren't they?
Matt
Matt..
The price for Steel City on the 16" is $999. The 18" is $1279. The 20" is $1849. That was the price at the IWF show and the 3 dealers I am familar with currently carry that price.
I quoted the current price today on Jet from Amazon who usually is the low baller but not always. I have seen a few cheaper than them on a few occasions at www (I believe) tookseeker.com?
I have no idea what either company has pin-pointed as true retail, just what I could have walked with by paying today without any negotiated price from an individual supplier as the right to negotiate remains in their domain.
"and Steel City is trying to avoid discounting from list, aren't they?.. Matt
Again, I have no clue what Steel City is trying to do with pricing. You might call Steel City Monday at 615-225-9001 to get an answer straight from the horse's mouth as what they are trying to do with their pricing.
I spent 3 hours comparing saws. What I can say is that the $1279 was IMO a fair price considering others pricing for what you get for it. If you can negotiate a better price, that's a plus as I would guess the price could vary depending on what dealer happens to be hungry at the moment as in most other items for sale.
Regards...
SARGE..
Excellent detailed coverage Sarge.....nice job!
Thanks Scotty. Gave me something to do to keep me out of mischief!
:>)
SARGE..
Sarge, Thanks for the response. Sounds like Steel City might be on to something with their price/performance. I've got the Jet 18" and I'd have paid an extra hundred bucks for a quick tension release, foot brake and better tensioning.Matt
I was looking at the 18" & 20" Jet a while back, Matt. I couldn't understand why they put the two tension springs on the J 20" and not the 18" as both are capable of running bigger blades which require more tension? They made changes to the 18-20 not long ago (bearing-trunnion) and the spring, brake and tension was not addressed.
That's understandable to me on a 14", but not when you get to the 18"-20" class, people expect more for the larger price they are going to have to pay. Maybe they were thinking (or weren't) that nobody would notice?
Regards...
SARGE..
Sarge, I got my 18" Jet quite a while ago when they were making the switch from the Euro-guides to the Carter style so I got a floor model for 800 bucks (not too much more than the cost of a 14" inch saw plus a riser block).
Supposedly my saw can run an 1" 1/4 blade but I suspect that tension would be an issue and I've had good luck with my WoodSlicer anyway. I'm generally happy with my saw but it would be great to have a nicer saw in between the region of the Jets/Deltas and the MiniMaxs of the world.Matt
If you haven't caught it yet, Highland Hardware has added a 3/4" Woodslicer to the 1/2" they have making for years. If a manufacturer spec calls for a say 1 1/4" max, I personally think that at least a 1/4" narrower should be the max. Just because it will fit on the wheel, doesn't mean it can be run efficiently by a particular machine. TPI, tension, set up, HP, blade speed and thickness and hardness of stock all play a more major role than how wide a blade your tackling the job with, IMO.
Regards for the evening...
SARGE..
Sarge, I didn't realize that they made a 3/4" WoodSlicer these days. My 1/2" WoodSlicer is getting a little long in the tooth (pun intended). Maybe I'll try out the wider blade this time.Matt
Just noticed in a recent catalog, Matt. If you are getting decent cuts with the 1/2", I wouldn't fix it. The 3/4" might provide less tendency to flex, if you got the tension and you should especially with the upgrade on your springs. It's wider, but the thickness on that WS is still the same as far as I know.
BTW.. the price was only a few dollars more than the 1/2". I would ask the guys at Highland what feedback they've gotten at this point. A lot of people use the 1/2 (even on larger BS) and there don't seem to be complaints as to smoothness.
Good luck...
SARGE..
So..let's see.. 3 hours reviewing, with a Steel City sales rep on hand and the only other manufacturer you can find to 'dog out' is JET?
Least we know who SCTW is skeered of, now don't we?
Thanks for the unbiased (coff-coff, wink-wink) review.
Read paragraph 3 of the original post. Intent is clearly explained! The question I had when I went to review the band-saws was, "is the SC the same as the Jet?" Take a look in the pictures at the circular point fence mounted on the standard fence face. Look at at way the blade removal slot is oriented on the table. Look at the guides in pictures of both. They almost mirror each other in the pictures. But as I found out, they don't up close.
Redmond & Son carries General.. Jet.. Shop-Fox and Aggazani. There is no comparison to the Jet..SC with any of the others in either looks or price range. I spent about 10 minutes with the SC rep as I sought him out to answer questions as I sought out the installer at Redmond as he assembles and installs them every day. There was no Jet rep on hand. I have been over the Jet's before as they are readily available in this area. I have been over about every BS in that price range at IWF with exception of the Bridgewood 17" as Bridgewood did not show up at IWF this year.
Was my opinion un-biased? Yep.. Make your own comparisons and form your own opinion and put in print what your impressions are. Or was the real intent of your 1st post since signing into the forum to get an un-biased opinion?
BTW.. I don't personally think that SCTW is skeered of anybody. I think there band-saw speaks volumes for itself in a side-to-side comparison which other machines in it's class. That's what I think. What do you think?
SARGE..
Sarge - I thought your review was very unbiased....refreshingly so. The bias seems to come from the accuser being a bit sensitive and sentimental to the Jet. It's fine to be "loyal" and "like" a tool, but when you break it down and compare two components, and one is simply more robust, uses stronger metal, has two of the same instead of one, or offers more power, it's kind of hard to dispute facts about the construction. Your description helps someone who's neutral and has no stake with either machine make up their mind about which best suits their needs....the emotional attachment will form later! I'll reiterate my first comment...nice job!
Thanks for the vote of integrity, Scotty. But it had nothing to do with integrity in this case. Simply a side by side comparison that anyone could do themselves. You can't hide the facts as they available for public to view. I suppose I should have taken a digital camera and taken photos of the components on each to give a visual. I still could with a 45 mile drive!
I could make a comparison to Rikon, Grizzly and others in the class (exclusion of the Bridgewood 17" Pacific Rim saw) as I have been over them also. But as clearly stated in paragraph 3, this was a personal point of curiosity as several had wondered (myself included) if it was the same as the Jet as it sure looks like it in the pics.
I have a Jet 12" BS in my shop and it is the best 12" on the playing field, IMO. I like the Jet 20" with it's double spring tension system (almost bought one 6 months ago from Stone Mtn. Tool), but numerous other points out-weight it when compared to the CS. That doesn't make it a bad BS or buy, just the fact that all things are not equal pitted toe-to-toe!
Regards...
SARGE..
No good deed goes unpunshed. Thanks, Sarge, for the time you spent not just in the "examination" but also in posting a very detailed report for the rest of us. The Steel City tools aren't going to be displayed in everyone's backyard, and I'd venture to say that the majority of Knots members are far less knolwedgeable about machinery than you are.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Thanks, FG. My pleasure to make a comparison as I have access to most machines at some point here in Atlanta as many don't. Unfortunately Bridgewood did not show up at IWF this year, so at this point I have to exclude it in any comparison I can make based on what I have seen. If I visit my wife's parents in Pa. this summer, I will make a point of dropping by to see it though to fill in my own blanks on it and some of their jointers.
I will cover one point I forgot to add in my first post. On the SC machine, the knurl nut that locks the adjusters on the guides is very small. 6 mm thread to be exact and the width on the knurl is only about 3/16". I thought the width should be wider and the thread size larger. At the time, my thoughts were to replace it with a wider knurl nut from Reid Tool Co. for about $2.30 each if I actually purchased the machine.
I called Steel City tech last Monday to question why so small? The receptionist ask me to hold momentarily as the technician was in the back sweeping the floor. :>) "Thanks for calling Steel City, this is Scott Box" (one of the co-owners and designers of the machine.
The knurl nut is small so not to encourage you to over-tighten it as it is not necessary at all. There are two collars with a flat spot that when clamped by the knurl nut lock in the guides. If you over-tighten them (as most machines with eccentric bearing) it will slightly throw your guides from the position you placed them to off that mark.
So.. caution to all of us macho types that use an impact wrench to replace the drain filler nut in our oil pan when changing our own oil (hoo-raa is the general battle cry as you rev up the power on that wrench), only thumb pressure is required and beyond that the risk of un-doing what you just did exist. I believe this would be true of most of the eccentric bearing guide set-ups. I will check that point for sure the next time I view other machines with eccentric set-up!
As more trees await my removal, rev up that chain saw, baby. Hoo-raa!
SARGE.. :>)
Great review. I appreciate the time it takes to put something like this together, covering every question a reader could have.
Every time I read a review like yours, it makes me wonder why the glossy woodworking magazines can't accomplish the same thing.
Perhaps glossy Woodworking magazines are caught between a rock and a hard place, Matt. Just my personal opinion, but they rely on both subscribers and advertisers to keep their head above water and allow them to float into the next business quarter.. and next.. and next.
You have subscribers on one side screaming, "give me the real deal" and advertising manufacturers that would withdraw revenue if you told "the whole truth and nothing but the truth" that would hurt their potential future sales. The truth becomes a "double-headed sword". It can boost one manufacturers sales and destroy anothers.
So..... the glossy WW mags are forced to walk a "tight-rope" and maintain balance to keep from falling to their doom. I understand and sympathize with that position as I have run my own business in the past and good business ethics dictates "taking care of the customer". But the middle ground between the "rock" and the "hard place" is that their customers are both the buyer and seller. Kind of unique as business goes and I wouldn't want to be there personally.
The bottom line is the truth is out there... you just have to have someone willing to find it that doesn't have their arms hand-cuffed behind their back because of business necessity.
Have Micrometer---Will Travel... reads the card of a man! Oh Paladin, Oh Paladin.. where do you roam?
SARGE..
Edited 10/8/2006 11:15 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
Heck Sarge. I was using a trip to Murfreesboro with my wife as an excuse to visit the Steel City plant.
Now, I don't really need to go. I guess we'll just go sightseeing instead :(
Actually, I'm about to re-up my shop with high-end tools. I've made do for a long time with Grizzly, etc. It's time to UPGRADE. (Band saw, 10" cabinet saw, 6" jointer, 15" planer)
I was going to buy all Powermatic. I fell in love with the PM2000 at a ww show in Houston.
So, since you've seen the SC tools, would you get their cabinet saw over the PM2000?
Morning Roy...
First, greetings to all the good folks and good eats down your way in SW Louisiana. Haven't been that way in about 5 years and have missed some of the festivities ("joie de vivre") they hold in those southern Parishes. Let's just say I'm over-due for my next visit. Just leave the porch light on for the ole country boy from Georgia. But... in the meantime; "laissez les bons temps rouler".
I can't make the call at this point Roy. I have seen the PM 2000 at IWF casually. I have also seen the high-end SC at Redmond & Son (casually). But on those events, I was purely concentrating on bandsaws, jointers and the middle of the road sliding Euro TS's (Hammer.. Laguna.. Rojek) for someone here on Knot's (Brownman I believe) and my own curiosity.
I did like the built-on casters on the PM and the fact they added a riving knife. I would have designed the knife different so that a crown guard instead of the plastic thingy with pawls could be added, but I could machine a new knife to use on their new set-up to take the knife. And yep, the guts are different from the older PM 66 to allow for that set up.
I will probably not make a comparison at this point and here's why. There is an inside rumor (and granted, rumors aren't confirmed facts) from a few of the competitors reps that a riving knife might show on a few competitors saws by late spring. I would prefer to wait and see so apples can be compared to apples. If I were in the market for a TS and could wait, it might bring some new points of interest to a prospective buyer to the table.
I have limited the use of a TS to basically ripping under 2" stock (bandsaw gets the over 2" stock) and leave a 24 T blade on it. I don't use many large panels and when I do, I can use a PC circular and a guide and get excellent results without the space an expense a Euro slider or U. S. cabinet saw with additional large table extensions might require in a commercial environment. I cross-cut for the most part with a SCMS that with portable stand is equipped with extensions that will slide out to around 8'.
BTW.. I wouldn't discount the Grizzly in the jointer department. From what I have observed over the years, all companies have hits and misses. Grizzly has made a point of staying on top of improving their jointers to the point that an installer I spoke to recently (a company that sells to commercial, schools, etc.) told me it is hard to compete with the price of the Grizzly.
They have an excellent 8" jointer offered with varying features (parallel-gram.. spiral cutter-head.. hand wheels and levers for those that like em). Again in the 8" range, you could pay a lot more for another machine: but not necessarily get more for your money, IMO. I have not had a close look at the 10" yet.
12".. 16".. 20" becomes a different discussion as you enter a much larger price range and have many that compete only on that playing field. A combo would even be considered unless you are commercial where I would stick with a "stand alone" model dedicated to a given task.
Sorry I can't be of more help with the TS at this point, but again it has not been a priority to this point as I currently have my personal needs for ripping filled. But since someone asked.. I might have a close look this spring when the manufacturers roll back through Atlanta at the annual spring show.
Regards...
SARGE..
"I was going to buy all Powermatic. I fell in love with the PM2000 at a ww show in Houston." Pardon me in advance if I've missed your stance on the SawStop, but have you considered one?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
With regards to the SawStop, I don't have any exposure to it at all (except those cool videos with the weiner).
Besides not cutting your hand off, how does their TS compare?
Where would I be able to find one?
Thanks for pointing that omission out for me.
Woodcraft in Houston has one set up in their showroom. It's a hike from Laffeyete, but if you are making a trip, you should stop by and see it. Woodcraft does store demos, and I think one is coming up in a few weeks. Give them a call.
BTW, I'm soooo glad Hebert's Specialty Meats made the trek to Houston. Good stuff, Maynard!
Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
Ok.
So it looks like I'll be going to Houston.
Any requests? How about some boudin from Poche's?
Don't tempt me! I had a buddy who used to bring back three 120 ice chests full of chickens from Hebert's. Now that they are here, its nice to buy 3 or 4 at a time instead of 10! Good luck with the saw. Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
I had a look at it at IWF and went over it pretty well several weeks ago at Redmond and Son here in Atlanta. Regardless of the hot-dog thing (which doesn't interest me personally), I will chime with ED that the saw is well designed and the machining appears to be excellent.
Regards...
SARGE..
On another subject, wife and I saw 'Flags of our Fathers' last night.
Great movie. I can't say enought about it.
It should be required viewing by high school students.
I saw a guy reading it in an office where I had an appointment the other day. He commented to his wife that the book was fantastic. I am not much of a movie-goer, but I will make an exception in this case with your recommendation as my interest is up.
Hoping to get over ya'lls way this spring as I haven't been in over 4 years. I have a feelin' the welcome mat will still be out! ha.. ha...
Regards...
SARGE..
The movie comes together at the end.
After the movie, during the credits, photos of actual people and events portrayed were displayed.
In the theater we were in, nobody left until all the credits and photos were finished. No one talked. No one walked out.
As we were leaving the theater, I saw a very young man with a Marine sweatshirt. I had to just shake his hand. Nothing was said.
Based on what John White reports here (shop manager for FWW), it's an outstanding saw. A couple others have it and have reported the same. A fine saw, safety feature or no, so it's not like you'd be trading off any quality for the sake of the safety feature.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Finally got a good looksee at the SawStop yesterday. Expensive (and out of my price range) but imho probrably worth it. Excellent fit and finish, massive trunion, bigger table than many other saws, and blade elevation was effortless. I don't all excited about the blade stop feature but as cutting machine the SawStop can more than stand on it's own merits.
Some friends acquired an SS for their new shop; I saw it at the open house. Note I said saw it, not sawed with it... Very impressive looking device, and all three spoke quite highly of it, both with respect to its functionality and their wellbeing.
Thanks for the hint on the SS TS.
I'll probably take a look at one in Hammond. It's just a 90 minute drive.
That's great that you can take a close look-see. Give it a kick in the tires for me. It'll be 2 or 3 years before I can afford to buy one, LOL!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Great review! Now I'm really confused on what bandsaw to buy. I have a budget of about $1200.00 and I feel like I've narrowed my search to the 18" Rikon, 19" 3hp Grizzly (G0514x), and the 18" Steel City bandsaw. A lot of people have the 18" Rikon and seem to like it a lot. I've yet to meet someone who owns the 19" Grizzly but based on specs alone, it seems like a better deal than the Rikon. And the Steel City may be on at least a par with the Rikon based on your review.
Any thoughts on which of these saws provides the best suite of features for the money?
- Lyptus
I am not going to comment as I don't want to "steer" you in any one direction if you have not seen either physically. I saw the Rikon once again Saturday as Highland Hardware here in Atlanta has picked up the line. It is a good buy and would be my choice, if..... I hadn't seen the Steel City.
If you get a chance to see the Steel City (go to web-site or call them for a local dealer), I would simply compare it the to Rikon feature for feature along with the construction and design. Then you will answer your own question. The Rikon is slightly lighter and has a 2 year warranty opposed to the 5 year on the SC. Other than that, I will let the saws do their own talking.
And BTW.. I do like the Rikon 18". And the new improved Rikon 14" they just came out with appears to smoke the competition in that category!
Specific questions on anything I might have over-looked... Ask!
Regards...
SARGE..
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