I am looking at making a cart/rollong cabinet for the kitchen, I ( wife ) want it to have a soild stone top (marble or granite about 2″ thick). How would I attach it to the cabinet? I have been thinking of epoxying a frame or corner blocks to the stone and then screwing thru those to the cabinet frame, but am not sure how well that would work.
1 – measure the board twice, 2 – cut it once, 3 – measure the space where it is supposed to go 4 – get a new board and go back to step 1
Replies
That would probably work, I'd go with the frame rather than the blocks, myself. The granite installers I've worked with used some kind of urethane caulking I think. Silicone would probably work as well.
John
in thinking of worst case senarios, someone lifting the thing by the edge of the slab to move it - would the calking hold?1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go 4 - get a new board and go back to step 1
well, I wouldn't try painters caulk, but given enough surface area, silicone or urethane ought to work. Someone over on the FHB forum ought to know exactly what the granite guys use. I've used silicone alone to hold 1/4" glass tops on a set of tradeshow cabinets (biggest top 2x6 ft). Its been 5 years now, and there's been no troubles.On the other hand, bet some west system epoxy would do the trick too.John
Silicone caulk is a very tenacious adhesive, and I would not hesitate in using it (liberally) for the purpose you describe.
I think your main problem would be removing the stone top, should you ever have to.
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"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Polyurethane works well is enormously adhesive and likely will outlast the casters. Use pads of caulk rather than large application techniques. My latest fav brand is PL from The Home Desperadoes. aloha, mike
Mike --I assume you're talking about PL Premium Construction Adhesive.I was going to post to Ricks and tell him to do what you suggest, because you know what you're doing, but I will just do that here. But give me a little education on why you think the above is better than silicone.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Nikkiwood, silicone works well except for situations where water can permeate one of the surfaces or where temperature differentials may allow one of the materials to shrink away from the bond. PL Premium construction adhesive works well but the Window and Trim sealant is my choice as it remains flexible. I put a piece of baseboaed on with it and a month later it took two people to pull it loose even with cutting the PL first. aloha, mike
A 2" slab of marble or granite is gonna be really heavy if it has any decent size to it, so make sure your cart is stout. Personally, I would avoid marble - it's actually fairly soft and can scratch fairly easily.
Whichever top you use, a few blobs of PL adhesive should hold it in place jus fine.
My granite-slab installer glues his counters down with blobs of polyester resin. He refers to it as Bondo. He buys his in 5-gal buckets from some supplier that sells to kitchen counter guys. However, when I asked him about it, he says it and Bondo are the same material. You can buy smaller quantities under the Bondo name at your local auto parts store. He puts the Bondo down in blobs rather than spreading out a thin layer. The blobs let him squish the counter top down different amounts to level it.
There is an epoxy made for granite tops, but you absolutely don't need it underneath a top of this kind. Silicone caulk will be more than adequate.
DR
Thanks, everyone. Wife wants a cart to store her baking equipment and that has a stone top she can use for rolling out dough. And she wants a 1 1/2" - 2" overhang. And she wants it mobile so she can use it in differant areas of the kitchen for additional counter space.
Not having worked with granite I am figuring it (the stone top) will need to be 18" - 20" by 30" in size and 1 1/2" - 2" thick to keep the edge strong enough not to crack under use and possibly mild abuse. And I have NO idea what this top whill end up weighing except that it will like be pretty heavy.
My plans, in my head at this time and such as they are, are to make a cube frame of oak 2x2 and attach that to a base of 3/4" baltic Birch ply and then maybe use some cherry and do a T&G sort of like wainscotting around it with raised panel doors and a solid cherry front drawer or drawers at the top end, with the shelves inside and the drawers on full extension slides.1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go 4 - get a new board and go back to step 1
A board foot of granite weighs around 14 pounds. Your slab will contain about 8 board feet and will weigh 116 pounds.
I would not directly glue the slab to the cart, it would be very difficult to remove if damaged or to transfer it to a different cart or other location. I would glue a couple of wood strips to the underside of the slab and then screw into them to attach the slab to the cart. Granite glues well with a number of glues.
John White,
Shop Manager, Fine Woodworking Magazine
Thanks, I think to keep weight down a bit I will go with 1.5" thick and 18"x24".
What you descibe for attaching the top is kind of what I had in mind, I just did not know how to attach the wood blocks to the granite.1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go 4 - get a new board and go back to step 1
I have a slab of granite waiting for me to get to the same project you've got in mind. It's the cutout from a large sink in a fancy Berkeley house. The owner had a dining table top made of the same material. It is exactly one inch thick, with a bullnosed edge, and should last for millenia. I plan to have the same treatment done to the edges of the piece I've got, and expect it to be pretty impervious to bumps and nicks.Top-heaviness is a caution. I note that kitchen store models of these tables usually have thinner tops, some as thin as a half inch. Thicker is cooler and better for making pie crusts, etc. -- unless it makes the table tippy. Should the cook be required to wear steel-toed shoes?
Thanks, I had not thought of approaching the fabricators for sink cutouts - I may be able to get a piece at a decent price - will look for one that was done to fit a 22x33 sink. cutout should be just the right size.
Only question is was it 1" thick or 3/4" thick - most I have seen seem to be 3/4"
Edited 2/9/2006 4:16 pm ET by Ricks503
Rick, you're right. My granite slab is 3/4" thick. The bullnose edge on the dining table makes it look thicker, and I had forgotten.BTW, when I built the dining table -- it is seven feet long and 40" wide -- I put a frame under it to help support it, rather than hanging the slab on widely-spaced trestles. I don't consider that to be necessary on the short piece I'll use for the baking table.I am, however, still trying to figure out the wheels situation. Casters all pointing to one side could make it easily tipped in the other direction. Have you got that solved?
I had planned on using the swivel casters. My wife will be storing her kitchenaid mixer in this, and I plan to have that on the bottom - Those are pretty heavy to help add ballast low down. Since I will have that 1 1/2" space to add weight at the bottom, I had thought of sealing the bottom edges real well and filling it with sand and then put the inside bottom on. I may change that to tiles or may make a cement insert.
This thing will be a heavy sucker, but the swivel casters should make it fairly easy to move around.1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go 4 - get a new board and go back to step 1
Even though our floor is tile on cement slab, I'm reluctant to build much extra ballast into the table. Whoever inherits the table may not want to deal with all that weight. So I've been looking for small-wheeled castors (to keep the offset minimal when they're 90 degrees to the unit) or other solutions to the tippy potential.However, I have considered using 3" x 3" corner posts that have been drilled out so that 6" of lead can be poured into the bottom of each one for stability. The theory there is that if you can't see it, it won't seem so over-built and heavy.
Maybe a bit involved, but if you epoxied four machine threaded studs in the four bottom surface corners of your top thru four out of view holes in your cart and applied nuts with loctite....should work, too. The other sol's are good, too, though and faster.
The guys that did my kitchen countertops (granite) used a couple of dabs of epoxy, they also drove in screws from the underside to level the countertops before the epoxy set.
Rick
A urethane caulk will work just fine. I have a 500+ lb. back splash in the kitchen which was installed with a urethane caulk ONLY to hold it. 5 years and no problems. Also, urethane caulk is used for caulking/sealing control joints in large concrete slabs outside, and holds up to to frost heaving in the winter time without issue. Use it, and you'll be fine.
Jeff
PL while great cures hard and strong. OSI or other subfloor adhesive cures with more give. I'd go with subfloor as the the thermal/moisture movement between wood and stone may be enough to open joints. Silicone caulk works as well, if there is a difference between silicone and subfloor in this instance I doubt you'll have need to note them.
I think you may have sent this to the wrong person. I didn't recommend PL, I recommended a urethane caulk. The product I've been using for about 9 years is extremely strong, yet stays flexible. As a business, we install about 10,000 linear feet of it per year, without incident. It's the same product that the granite guys use to adhere their stone to countertops, etc....
Jeff
Reading through this thread I keep wondering about whether or not this cart will be top heavy. If the top weighs over 100 pounds, it seems like you will need to have some mass down low. bill
I have decided to go at 18x24 and 1.5 in thich - at that it will still be 75ish pounds.
I may have to add some weight to the base area, and as I am building a 2x2 oak cube and attaching that to a 3/4" plywood base, what I had planned to do was put another 2x2 at the half way point as additional support on both top and bottom and then on the bottom put a 1/2" thick baltic birch ply down and not nail it in place till I see what the stability is. If needed, I can put some stone in the base to stabilize it and then finish it off.1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go 4 - get a new board and go back to step 1
Not to keep beating this equine but the guys who do granite for me just use silicone caulk to attach the countertops and the back/side splashes. Never had any complaints. Stuff is strong enough that it's hard to tell if the cabs are holding up the stone, or the stone is holding up the cabs.
And thank you to the other posters for making the rusty gears between my ears turn. My better half insisted that I build her a tiny curved vanity (90 degrees of 12" radius, 30" tall, with 3" tall toekick at 10" radius -- tiny) with a granite top (16" radius, on which mounts a faucet and glass sink bowl) for our own powder room at home. I now appreciate a recent discussion about how hard it is to get the reveal right on a curved door. Vanity is done and my aforementioned granite guys are cutting one of their scraps of stone for me. In the meantime, been pondering how to attach the stone to the vanity while still allowing its removal to more easily service the faucet, etc. Now kick myself for not thinking of just using the silicone to glue small blocks under the stone which will then affix to the vanity. Great idea and thanks again.
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