Hello
Recently I built myself a traditional carpenters toolbox. It’s an ongoing thing getting all the compartments finished and I’m aiming to end up with something like on the back cover of the recent “Tools & Shops” special issue, which had a stunning toolbox made to custom-fit the makers tools, including french-fitted compartments.
I haven’t finished “outfitting” my toolbox, but have the base made out of a sheet of plywood, that I put 2 x coats of Danish oil on. For the moment I just have my planes sitting on the bottom (loose) of the toolbox (I don’t move it around – it stays in the same spot).
I’ve noticed that the side of the plane that contacts the wood is prone to get a bit of slight spot-rusting – even though the plywood base has been danish oiled. This only happens with my good lie-nielsen planes, and not my cheap Stanley number 5.
So my question is, if I go to the trouble of making a beautiful interior with custom-fitted compartments for all my tools am I going to have to wipe every tool every time with some camellia oil when I put it away? And if that’s the case then wouldn’t I be better off buying plane socks for them all (but then I don’t get that beautiful-looking toolbox interior).
Instead of Danish oil on the interior compartments should I be using a polyurethane sealer? Or alternatively spraying all my planes with some sort of lacquer or sealer?
I do occassionally (at least once a week) give the planes a wipe with camellia oil, but I don’t like the idea of having to do it EVERY time i reach for one and put it back.
Any suggestions on how to finish the box without rusting issues for my beautiful hand planes? Like I said, I would like to end up with something like on the back cover of recent “tools and shops”.
Replies
Paul, here's my long standing solution to that problem. Wire up the box with a lamp holder and stick in one of the low energy bulbs. For this size I find something like a 5 or 7 watt low energy bulb works fine. It raises the temperature in the box a bit above what's outside, lowers the RH, and through this it prevents moisture condensing on the tools leading to rust.
Low energy bulbs also last for a very long time- years even. The bulb in this image has lasted nearly two years now running continuously. Regular incandescent bulbs blow anywhere from almost immediately to lasting a month or two. It makes sense therefore to spring the bit extra for the low energy bulbs. The problem with the regualr failure of incandescent bulbs is that you can go days or even a week or so without opening a cabinet, and you're not aware the bulb has gone and RH inside the cabinet has risen.
My toolbox has no finish on the surfaces. I've no idea if the finish you've applied is adversely affecting the tools. I'd guess not if it's properly cured, but oil based finishes inside sealed cabinets do tend to smell bad, and that might be a serious consideration. Slainte.
View Image
Richard Jones Furniture
Richard Is your toolbox in a heated space in the UK ? I have tools that are left in the tropical southern end of the island between trips over and have resorted to that Rocal product sold by Axminster.Problem is it is a brute to remove
My workspace is unheated jako. This trick works well. No sign of rust on anything in the toolboxes. It also worked in hot and humid Houston when I lived there. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Here in Tampa, I just wipe the tools down with a rag with some furniture paste wax on it.... it works very well keeping rust at bay...Tom Iovino
Tom's Workbench
http://tomsworkbench.com
I just shove my tools in the box, shut the door and walk away. The tools have to be put away anyway at the end of the day, so wiping them all down with a waxy rag would just add extra time and effort at knocking off time.
I used to do something similar to what you're doing before the dawn of time somewhere back in the 1970's. I found it helped a bit, but not enough. Basically the tools rusted again, but it took a bit longer for it to happen. It wasn't satisfactory.
The heated toolbox, the first one made about 1980 or '81, took all that fiddling, fiffing and faffing about out of tool storage, and keeps them rust free. It does it for me anyway. Slainte. Richard Jones Furniture
Sounds elegant... I'm gonna have to look into that...Tom Iovino
Tom's Workbench
http://tomsworkbench.com
Tom,
It works, trust me. I did pretty much the same with my plane/chisel cabinet about a year ago. You'll never guess where I got the idea............
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
OK, I'm a bettin man... Did it have to do with raising baby chicks from eggs? :-DTom Iovino
Tom's Workbench
http://tomsworkbench.com
Tom,
Did it have to do with raising baby chicks from eggs? :-D
Nope, you'll have to guess again!
Funny you should mention that about chicks. Years ago my dad used to raise rabbits. I remember one particularly cold winter and him complaining about the rabbits not producing very well. Mom suggested he supply them with a little heat to take the chill off.
Dad put some lights in the rabbit pen and about a month later we found 67 new baby rabbits in the pen one morning.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Oh, that's funny.Did he plug in a boom box with some Barry White playing?Tom Iovino
Tom's Workbench
http://tomsworkbench.com
Thanks Richard
Richard
You should submit pics of your toolbox to FWW for the next Tools and Shops Edition!!!
You might even get awarded a framing square for the lightbulb idea.
<g>
Jeff
Well, darn!
I was going to submit the "light in a toobox" idea to a dozen or so woodworking journals, and maybe get a monogrammed toothpick for my trouble.
Actually, my neighbor is a welder, farmer, electrician, etc. He keeps his welding rods in a crude metal box with a 15 watt bulb burning to keep the RH to a minimum.
I am going to install a low wattage bulb of some type in my toolbox, and plan on covering it with a sturdy cover of hardware cloth.
Thanks!
Pete
Do you have holes drilled in the shelves, sides, etc to facilitate convection?
Edited 2/27/2008 12:56 pm ET by PCM
Another option would be a "golden rod". They are a low wattage heating element sold through gun shops, and sporting goods stores for use in gun cabinets to keep guns from rusting.
http://www.goldenroddehumidifiers.com/
Or, you could go with the night light. Wouldn't want the tools to be scared by the dark in that cabinet.
Thanks.
These look promising and safer than a lightbulb.
Pete
SgianDubh: Is that the "Black knife" that goes with the formal Kilt? I'm only entitled to the Manx (Isle of Man) tartan - not currently produced, have to order from a specialty mill. What's the traditional handle made of?
leif
Gonna say that lanolin does wonders for me. I keep a can with equal parts mineral spirits and lanolin as my go-to wipe down/lube. Garage with no climate/humidity control in SCarolina.
L-N planes rust easily. The lighbulb trick will certainly work although I can't say for sure if you want to rig up the kind of toolbox you're planning on building with a lightbulb.
You're basically going to have to keep the planes waxed or rubbed down with a light coat of oil. I guess the Camelia is a decent rout to go but always seemed a little frou-frou to me. I just use a little furniture wax. I don't think the finish you use on the toolbox will matter much.
Boss, I've no idea what the toolbox on the back of the recent Tools and Shops issue of Fine Woodworking looks like.
I assumed it was basically a copy of my finely crafted, highly decorative, and covetable plywood creation as seen in the snap I put up for everyone's enjoyment.
I must admit I rejected the idea of French polishing mine, and went for the 'natural' look; but I see no harm in gashing on a bit polish of some sort just to raise the standard to that, erm, well, yes,... a peerless level. That about describes it, ha, ha---, ha, ha, ha. Slainte. Richard Jones Furniture
"Boss, I've no idea what the toolbox on the back of the recent Tools and Shops issue of Fine Woodworking looks like. "
It's a nice one, you wouldn't mount a lightbulb in it.
Mine still sit on an MDF shelf below the bench.
Edited 2/15/2008 8:26 am ET by BossCrunk
"It's a nice one, you wouldn't mount a lightbulb in it."
Wouldn't I? Watch me. I'm nothing if not a heathen, ha, ha. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
I use Boeshield religiously. Every few weeks, I wipe my planes down with Boeshield on a cloth. I don't think that it's the oil that's causing the rust so much as the lack of air movement (trapped moisture). If you don't like the idea of a lightbulb in your chest, try some packs of silica gel.
Is your tool chest going to look very similar to the one on the back cover? If it is a completely different design, I'd love to see it.
Chris @ flairwoodworks
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Paul, keep a packet (Or two?) of silica gel in the box. It absorbs moisture (Also known as a desiccant)
I have expensive machinist's tools, so I make the packets similar to tea bags and fill them with the gel (Granules)
Those little canisters that come with prescription drugs are desiccants. Steinmetz.
Edited 2/18/2008 3:24 pm ET by Steinmetz
The silica gel that Steinmetz mentions works very well. I don't know what you call them in the States , but here this is obtainable from an industrial chemist supplier.
You can also pick it up for free from importers of machinery, especially sophisticated electronic stuff which is highly sensitive to moisture. That is where I get mine from. It is also supplied with an indicator card-when the indicator dot on the card turns either red or blue (can't remember which) it means the gel is over saturated with moisture-so all you do is bake it in an oven for a few minutes and it is back to new.
A small bag about 8 by 12 inches will take care of the average tool cabinet.Philip Marcou
Edited 2/18/2008 1:16 am by philip
philip,
so all you do is bake it in an oven for a few minutes and it is back to new.
Another option you might try is to treat it in a micro wave. The MW heats the particle from the inside forcing the moisture out and doesn't crust the outside thus creating a shell sometimes if left in the oven too long. That was my experience anyway.
Regards,
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob, sometimes I catch myself having the same mind set as the man with many names. I will try the micro wave - I would think it would be quicker too.Philip Marcou
philip,
I spread mine out on a paper plate and just nuke 'em for about 15-20 seconds, doesn't take long at all. If ya keep 'em in too long I think they might melt. :0) I suppose the same problem exists when using an oven.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 2/18/2008 2:56 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
I'm thinking that silica gel packs in a toolbox stored in a garage, for example, are going to absorb to capacity in less than 24 hours on rainy and/or humid days. This would require daily maintenance to the packs to dry them back out.
Is this really viable?
When used in a box that has a reasonable seal and is only opened infrequently, silica gel would work. Otherwise, it's as you said--the capacity would be reached pretty quickly.
One other thing that people often neglect is that when used inside a wooden enclosure, the first several batches of silica gel will be used up in absorbing residual moisture coming out of the wood.
-Steve
One would assume that a tool chest is opened fairly frequently I guess.I think the silica packs ultimately would be a waste of time.Yep, it does appear that the packs will have to handle the moisture in the air and at those times the air dries out the moisture released from the wooden tool chest itself. Good point.
Because of my Job, I use my tools and then they set for a couple weeks. I work 2 weeks or more away from home, then get a week off at home. For me I have to make sure everything gets a good coat of plane jane paste wax. You don't have to wax things everytime you use them. Like the sides of your planes you should only need to do it every so often. Its just the wear areas that need it more often. Like on my table saw. Only about the middle 12" of it needs regular polishing. It only takes a minute or two at the most.
Another idea is to leave the box open and cover it when not in use.
You can get the packets from places that sell photographic equipment and supplies. Lee Valley also carries them.
-Steve
Here in the States you can get the reusable silica gel packets from several sources, but one of the easiest is a sporting goods store that sells guns. Also available there are safe heating rods made to fit into gun safes and keep the relative humidity down. They do the same job as a light bulb, but don't break easily. I think one brand is called 'Goldenrod."One problem with silica gel packets is that they need to be used in a fairly tight box. Any flow of moist air will use them up very quickly.Joe
The problem seems to be reduced using a wooden box as opposed to a metal one. Besides lightbulbs and silica packets, activated charcoal also works (will hold half its weight in water). Like silica, it can be revived in a normal oven or a microwave. Charcoal can be 'interesting' in a nuke (won't hurt anything).
I've been working with green (wet) white oak of late - astounded me how quickly it rusts cast iron!
Ed:
Interesting. With the oak, I would speculate that the rust is not purely due to moisture. You are probably getting a bit of acid there, too.
Joe
I should bring along some litmus paper next time (I'm guessing orangeish). I knew WO 'featured' tannic acid, LOL, but when I pulled a plane out of a pile of chips after 20 minutes or so, I was just amazed. Also, the bed of a jointer, same thing. Eye opening.
Eye opening. And skin darkening- that is what happens when skin moisture and tannin get together. Several timbers have tannin apart from oaks. Strangely many come from Africa.Philip Marcou
X2 for the Boeshield T-9! Works on my tools and in my lab that has lots of acids and bases. Reducing moisture through silica gel use is also helpful.
I have tried several items and use WD-40 on all my tools..
Its $9.99 a gallon @Lowes and I use an old Tile Cleaner bottle to spray it or wipe it on with a rag..
I just wipe it off before use on wood..
I have also use Top Coat for TS tops on hand saws found it works well..
I did not care for the Japanese oil on metal planes.
-rarebear-http://www.rexmill.com My Hand Plane Resource
Edited 4/6/2008 1:24 am ET by rarebear
pics would be nice when you're done, or even step by step
Ductape can fix EVERYTHING!!!
Hi Paul-
I have heard of placing a jar of a product containing camphor (like Vicks Vap-O-Rub or Carmex) in your tool box with some holes punched in the top works very well and is as portable as the box itself. Camphor is also available as a solid substance that you can order very cheaply on the internet, you'd just have to make a breathable container to keep it in.
Good luck - John
I cheat, my wife uses "Lock & Lock" airtight food containers, my LN planes are stored in one with a rust-inhibiting chemical block. South Alabama is hard on tools in an unheated shop. If you must use a wooden toolbox - - I also use "plane socks" they're rust-inhibiting for the old Stanleys.
I've found that the plastic hinges on the Lock & Lock containers aren't very rugged.
-Steve
Hello Paul,
Have you seen http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=59367&cat=1,43326 or http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=58755&cat=1,43326 . Hope this helps. Cheers, have a good one, Geoff.
They look like the best option. I have chucked a couple of silica gel packs into the toolbox (from vitamin bottles) but was wondering about their "absorption" rate. This looks like a better solution. Also been wiping them each time with camelia oil but it's always a bit oily in the hand, so changed to putting wax on them as well, but wasn't sure if the beeswax I've been using is too soft - it's quite soft in the tin. I also have some cabinet makers wax (and paraffin) but it's too much work to rub off! Will post some photos of it soon, been busy with work.Thanks for your comments.
Get bee's wax at a sewing store or Tandy leather craft stores
I know this is a bit of a necro-post but I went searching for some info on BoeShield T9 (my personal fav) and found this thread. There is also an option akin to the light bulb solution that is used in gun safes and the like... Simply search for golden rod dehumidifier. Wondering if anyone has headed this way?
I use BoeShield in conjunction with Bullfrog emitter cups/strips. https://www.bull-frog.com/products/
Pretty sure LEDs wouldn't work; the only heat from them is from the electronics, and it isn't much. As of 2021, it's getting harder and harder to find non-LEDs. Anyone have a brand and a source they know is current?
Camphor (moth balls, I think) isn't the best to breath, but you wouldn't need much.
Dryer packets work, but you need the ones you can re-heat to restore ability to take on mositure. I'd rather use some form of heat.
Waxes can get onto the wood and effect finishing products.
leif
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