I’m pretty new to woodworking but have watched a lot of videos trying to learn. I don’t understand why this desk top I made ended up having streaks. I sanded at 60 grit, then 120, then 220, then sprayed with water to raise the grain, let it dry, then sanded again at 220. I then let pre stain sit on it for 20 minutes, then wiped the excess. Then I applied the stain, let it sit for 30 minutes, then wiped the excess and this is the result. Any ideas why? And is there any way to fix it?
Replies
Those look like track marks from a random orbit sander that was being moved too quickly. A random orbit sander is not necessarily the best tool for surface preparation prior to staining as you have noticed. If you do not want to scrape or hand sand you can try moving the random orbit sander about an inch per second. This will create a dense enough swirl pattern that it may not be noticed once stained. Better solution is a final scraping or hand sanding.
As for fixing what you have, I would sand back to bare wood and begin again as described above. I know this is not what you want to hear but those marks are from patterns abraded into the wood. The only way to cover them without sanding back to bare wood is to color the material so severely it’s almost painted. I’m sure this is not the look you’re shooting for.
"Pre-stain". What is the function of that and how does it work?
As a Blighty foreigner, I'm often amazed at the amount of finishing goos that are available and recommended in the US. Over the years of reading about them in FWW, it looks to me that the reason for such a large proportion of forum posts being questions about finishing problems is that there is far too much "finishing" going on.
In short, the problems often seem to be caused by too many goos.
Personally I rarely use anything other than a good quality finishing oil on the natural wood. Once it's planed, scraped and sanded to the required surface quality, all that remains is to protect the wood, which is usually allowed to change to whatever it's natural colour and look is under UV.
Very occasionally I'll use a spirit dye stain to change a timber's colour. Ash stained a light brown to look the same colour as unstained oak, perhaps.
Why do more?
I suppose the answer is "fashion". There is a long-standing fashion in the US for a rather plasticised look (gallons of polyurethane or lacquer); and for grain "pop" (gallons of stain before the gallons of lacquer). These "looks" are, of course, a matter of taste (and fashion) so if you like them ......
But I get something of an impression that a lot of these "looks" have come about via the aggressive marketing of finishing solutions ('scuse pun) to achieving a "look" that is really serving the desire of finish-sellers to sell their wares. Another example of coming to have wants & needs for things we didn't want or need without a large suggestion poured into our eyes and ears morning, noon and night via the omnipresent advert.
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So, yes - sand it back to the beginning but try a less complex multi-goo mode of finishing it perhaps?
Lataxe
Sander marks. 60 grit really doesn't have any business being near furniture.
If you have a card scraper, that's what I would use next. If all you have is a random orbit sander, start at 120. I'd never go below that. Sand a bunch at 120. Then a bunch more. Then likely some more. You really need to get past the 60 grit damage. Then go to 220. If that is pine, do a little 320. Scratch marks from a sander are more obvious in softwood than hard.
How can you tell that those tide marks are the result of an RO sander? Surely you'd need a close-up photo to observe any scratch marks or other patterns due to sanding rather than ..... something else.
My own suspicion - a guess as much as yours, really - is that the "pre-stain" is a possible culprit. What is it? Was it applied evenly? Was it allowed to fully dry properly in the 20 minutes before the next goo was applied? 20 minutes seems insufficient. The patterns of those tidemarks look like the partially-dried "pre-stain" has reacted differentially with the stain applied on top. Where the pre-stain hasn't fully dried, it's reacted with the stain to produce either the lighter or darker shade.
But as I say - a guess. I have no experience with "pre-stain" but lots of experience with RO sanding. I've never seen a result like that from poor sanding techniques. The poor sanding would give a much more random pattern and would show as scratches-revealed more than as differential shades of colour after application of a stain.
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Does pine need "pre-stain"? As I understand it (perhaps not very well, as the whole notion seems redundant to me) "pre-stain" is meant to prevent blotching in those timbers prone to it. Why one would want to prevent blotching I don't know - it's a feature of the wood, after all. But does pine blotch in the way of cherry, for example?
Lataxe
PS This is worth a read.
https://www.popularwoodworking.com/flexner-on-finishing-woodworking-blogs/finishing-difficult/
PPS But if the OP wants to do the USA multi-gooing of pine .... this article seems comprehensive, rather like the process itself. :-)
https://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/aw-extra-101013-staining-pine/
There is too much of a gap between the sandpaper grits you have been using. If you are to sand over again, you will need to remove the 60 grit marks, my sequence would be 80;100;120;150 that is good enough for pine.
Yeah, 60 grit is for carving, not furniture making.
Well I’ve learned, so thank you guys for the comments.
Well this certainly illustrates one fundamental aspect of woodworking, you ask 10 woodworker's how to do something and you will get 10 different answers. So I may as well add my 10 cents worth.
While I agree with Lat_axe you can't say definitively that those are sanding marks, I would lean that way. Maybe not keeping the pad flush, rushing through the final grits, etc. When sanding I find it critical to move methodically across a work piece, never randomly, this assures you don't miss areas and you remove a consistent amount of material. No one I know enjoys sanding and is important to fight the urge to get it over with.
While I'm not one to disparage another one's technique. Gulfstars grit progression is different than what I would suggest and seems a bit conservative. Unless you clearly see 60 grit sanding marks I would start with 100 progress to 150, 220-240, 320, 400. Never moving to the finer grit until I'm sure all the coarser swirl marks are eliminated. My logic for sanding finer is it will help you control stain penetration better, the finer the sanding the slower the stain penetrates. Also, when staining woods that tend to blotch like pine, I try to keep my stain rag fairly dry, it is easier to add a little more stain to an area if it seems light but impossible to remove if it blotches. My personal experience with conditioners and pre-stains has been underwhelming so I prefer a little more sanding and controlled stain application. Different types of stains can have different working characteristics as well, a water based stain will perform differently than an oil based one and gel stains are a whole other animal and are often recommended for blotchy woods like pine. So experiment and read some of the great articles here and elsewhere until you develop the finishing techniques that work best for you.
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