Stripping and staining 100 y.o. unvarnished crown moulding
TechieTechie
| Posted in Finishing on
Hi,
I recently purchased a 1928 home. The window casing and baseboards are beautifully stained (I think they may be fir). However, the 4″ crown moulding is painted…and I was hoping to have it stained, like the rest of the gorgeous trim.
So, I stripped a test patch….to see if the mouldings were originally finished with shellac (then painted). So, out comes the Silent paint stripper (which doesn’t work as well on such curved trim). Anyways, no shellac….it’s paint over raw wood.
I’m going to get a bit of stain tomorrow for a test patch, but does anyone have real life experience with this situation? Am I going to be able to get all the paint out of the grain such that I can stain/shellac the mouldings? If so, any recommended approaches?
Replies
I'm afraid you have no easy solution and I'm probably going to make it tougher. If you are dealing with 100 year old paint you are also dealing with lead and you should take appropriate precautions, especially if you and your family are living in the house during renovations. Sanding should be avoided as much as possible and sealing off rooms during renovations, respirators and air cleaners should be used.
https://www.bobvila.com/articles/how-to-remove-lead-paint/
PS don't assume the lead is only present in the paint it can be in clear finishes and stains as well.
It will be super hard to strip crown in place. If you're going to take it down you can damage it. Its easier at that point to send it out to a commercial stripper. And as esch pointed out, tons safer.
It's not a great option, but think about swapping it out. You can get new moulding run at a mill shop if you can't find the original profile. If you aren't averse to using a wider molding, you can go over what's there with new, wider crown.
I have had a degree of success stripping paint from fairly complex pieces to restore a wood finish though had to accept a few flecks of paint.
Sometimes you will find that the wood was painted for a good reason. Not occasionally it will be a lot of damage that has been filled. If you do decide to do the stripping, I would recommend that you do a quick and dirty strip with chemicals first and check that there is no major damage before you invest more time in the job.
If you decide that the wood is not salvageable, then it saves you from wasting time. Otherwise, it's a labour of love with a badly cricked neck.
One thing that really works well is to stain the finished wood, then with a bit of patience you can paint over any blemishes. I used a palette with a selection of red, brown, yellow and black acrylic paints to blend to an exact match and a fine tip brush to cover where the paint had got too deep to remove. The repair was invisible save from very close inspection. Sadly the house has since been demolished due to earthquake damage, but it was pretty whilst it lasted...
Yep. I second everything. I've stripped a ton of lead paint in my house with a heat gun, windows, box beams, etc. I had some doors sent out, and had probably the best results ALTHOUGH the plywood panels on one bubbled a little. (These are 1911 doors, original plywood from way back then, all fir, in PNW.) But ultimately, on everything else I've stripped manually, there are some places you can't get the paint out, even with a pick. In that case, I use a brown fine-point sharpie. I don't even go the route of paint. I also use a water-based dye (red mahogany & purple) then BLO with oil-based red mahogany, and finally a red-mahogany alcohol-based in shellac. I do 4 coats, and depending on how dark it's getting, I revert to clear shellac. Finally, at long last, 0000 steel wool and SC Johnson paste wax. Man, that is SUCH a nice finish. You caress it with a full hand and it actually feels SOFT. Oh... the point of all this dye description is that it actually blends in any lightness of the white paint that didn't cover well. You can't really see it until you get in close.
I did all of the doors in my house a coupla years back. They are fir and the paint grade contractor doors from 1938 are made from what would sell as premium stock today. Your crown could be very pretty under there.
Whether you do the work or send it out, if you are going to use stripper you should take down the crown and work on them flat. A face full of stripper would be bad and the inevitable wall and ceiling damage will suck.
When it is time to stain and finish you'll be happier on horses than overhead as well.
I'm going to chime in again and be a wet blanket. As a professional home improvement contractor (not a licensed lead mitigation specialist) I have to follow strict rules and procedures when working on older homes for the safety of my crews and the homeowners. Lead dust can be especially harmful to children so please take appropriate precautions whenever you do home renovations in older homes. Anytime you cut a hole in the wall or remove a piece of trim you risk releasing lead dust into the air. I see way too many homeowners/dyi'rs who are either ignorant to this or choose to ignore the presence of lead to the risk of their families health. My suggestion is to leave the molding in place and simply repaint it, barring that I recommend leaving it to a professional, preferably while you and your family live elsewhere.
Older homes can be magnificent and wonderful living environments but just be aware of some of the potential risks when planning any home improvements. You can live in them safely but it is always best to let sleeping dogs lie, in other words minimize the disturbance of any painted surfaces. Also be aware of any flaking or peeling paint, a characteristic of old lead paint, and get it treated promptly.
PS. I also recommend getting your HVAC ductwork cleaned periodically if you have any.
While I follow this forum closely, I seldom post. However, I'm compelled to comment here. My lead mitigation experience is lacking, but my asbestos usage and abatement experience is rather long and broad. If there is plaster on walls in a structure built in the early to mid 1900's it quite possibly contains asbestos. In these old structures asbestos could have been used extensively throughout.
All, thanks, I get the lead dust issue, it's common in older homes, regardless of where the trim sits. I'm trying to focus more on:
1. Is normal that old growth grain is tight enough to minimize paint seepage into pores?
2. Is there a different (and recommended) method of stripping paint off of varnished versus unvarnished old growth wood?
3. What the best method to determine viability? I was thinking strip then stain a small patch. Worse cast scenario, I break out the paint and recover the patch.
Replacing it is NOT an option, I'd rather live with the white paint. And, I'm not as worried about any lead dust, as the house is empty and I have the proper precautions.
I hadn't thought about taking it down and having it stripped offsite. That's a very good idea. Any recommendations on how to safely remove 100 y.o. 4" crown? (Most of it, IIRC, is in 8 foot sections). I know the trick around numbering the backs so one can reinstall properly. Good news is that I am repainting all 3 rooms, so there is an opportunity to sand away any paint buildup. It's getting it back into place that worries me.
First, break the paint bond between the crown, ceiling and wall. Find the nails on the crown, and drive them through with a punch. It works better than trying to pry the moulding away, which can split it.
If you do remove it do as John says cut the paint bond with the ceiling and wall with a sharp knife, I recommend a wallpaper knife, the ones with the breakable blades they have enough flex to let them follow the plane of the wall and ceiling better than a utility knife. Finding all the nails under decades of paint is no easy task but a strong rare earth magnet can help. Also since inside corners are likely coped start at an outside corner if possible, if there is none try to determine which piece is the coped piece, both ends will be coped as it was the last piece installed, and remove that first. This is often on the doorway wall as it is considered the least noticeable thereby making any imperfections in fit less noticeable. Oh and cut the paint in the joint corner as well.
Why not just test the paint for lead first?
IMO all the questions you're asking can really only be answered by getting it down and stripped. Getting that crown off without damaging it is going to be a trick. Fir is extremely brittle and prone to splits and cracks. Not something you can do off a ladder. You'll need scaffolds and another hand.
Personally I'd just repaint it for me the aggravation of removing/reinstalling alone, much less damage control & uncertainty of the end product.
I would repaint it.
Testing for lead in 125 year old houses is a waste of time. I speak from experience as I frequently work in houses that are 100 years old. All paint 100 or even even seventy years ago contain lead it is a foregone conclusion so unless that's not original molding it would test positive for lead.
Yes. Lead paint was still legal 43 years ago. Older than that, assume it has lead.
There is another method often used by lead mitigation specialists to clean and preserve wood moldings, plaster castings, tin ceilings etc. and that is Soda Blasting, essentially using streams of pressurized sodium bicarbonate aka baking soda as a mild abrasive to remove the paint without damaging the wood. I hesitate to mention this because it is anything but dust free, but if you are willing to take the necessary precautions it is probably the best option. The necessary precautions are completely sealing off the room as described in the previous article I linked to, wear a disposable full body coverall, they are available in the paint department of HD or any home improvement center or paint store, proper respirators, not a dust mask, full face shield and provide a lead dust approved vacuum and air filtration, these things are not easy for homeowners to do properly so I might suggest getting a quote from a professional before making a decision.
I priced that for my painted-over sand-stone brick. Man... messy and expensive. I painted over the old paint. Some woman staying in this house as a long-term "guest" took it upon herself to really mess up a lot. She painted everything that didn't move. Like... rustoleum (silver) over an are neauveau (sp?) light fixture? Argh. Next on my list....
BTW, I JUST finished my dining room ceiling. Similar issues. I stripped all the box-beams and crown with a heat gun. When you heat the paint, the shellac lets go very quickly. Then sand, water-dye, BLO-dye, shellac with color. They look pretty fantastic. I had to take out some plaster and re-do it in the ceiling (rotted from past leaks). But there are some key ways to mitigate that lead issue. If you can figure out how to PM me or otherwise contact me, I am willing to tell you what I do. (I don't EVEN want to try to figure out the PM bit.)
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