Replies

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Jan 29, 2007 12:48pm | #1

   If you have spray capabilities, you can achieve a moderate color shift by applying a toner over the current finish after it has been thoroughly cleaned to remove dirt and wax.  By far the easiest solution, and unless they want to really dark likely to look quite good.  Using a dark glaze makes this easier since it obscures the corners where it is hardest to get even coloration with the toning. 

   If you can use the toner, then I would work hard to avoid having to make new drawer fronts.  Matching new and old is possible, but makes the job much harder I think.  I'd certainly make tests of the matching before I committed to stripping the entire piece. 

   Lacquer thinner will quickly tell you whether you have NC lacquer or something else.  The thinner will quickly soften lacquer.  If not, the something else is most unlikely to be polyurethane varnish.  By the mid -eighties I suppose you could be seeing a catalyzed material that doesn't just redissolve.

   If it is lacquer you can use lacquer thinner to remove the finish.  This won't be as quick as a methylene chloride stripper.  Both would require lots of ventilation, gloves and breathing protection. 

2. 
   Kevin | Jan 29, 2007 09:31pm | #2

   As Steve says, if it's noncatalyzed lacquer then lacquer thinner will quickly reveal whether it's lacquer or not. Easier yet, if you don't have any lacquer thinner around, fingernail polish remover (Acetone) will tell you the same thing since most fingernail polishes are lacquer-based.

   Methylene chloride stripper will easily strip it either way. But, it's messy and you really do have to clean it up properly afterwards because of the paraffin wax used to keep it from flashing off too quickly. Residual wax can play hell with both dry times later on as well as adhesion if it's not thoroughly removed.

   If it's regular old lacquer then I personally would use lacquer thinner to strip it. That's how we did it back in the 80's when I worked in a furniture factory.

   The easiest way is to work horizontal surfaces as much as possible and work one surface at a time. Flow on lacquer thinner until it just barely floods the surface and give it time to penetrate down to the wood. Then use some sort of scrapper and a rag to scrape the softened finish off, wiping the goo onto the rag sorta like how the guys at the gas station (here in Oregon at least) do when they wash your windows... same basic idea. Then when you've got most of it off come back with some fresh lacquer thinner and synthetic steel wool (aka Scotch-Brite) and you'd be surprised at how much of the stain you can get out of the wood pores as well as from details like mouldings. Work the thinner in with the Scotch-Brite, work it good while it's wet and then before it has a chance to dry, wipe it all off with a clean rag.

   When I do use methylene chloride stripper I will always follow up using the above technique to remove as much of the old finish and color as humanly possible. It works on virtually everything, including old latex paint on antique wooden doors. Nothing works better, IMHO. And you don't have to remove a bunch of wood via sanding either. This will keep the sanding requirements to a bare minimum. Plus... whatever finish remains in the pores ought not to pose nearly as big of a problem for the eventual refinish as residual wax would.

   As Steve says, ventilation, gloves, breathing protection and I would add NO SOURCE OF IGNITION. Both approaches use extremely flammable products. The idea is to do a good refinish, not die trying.

   Steve's toner suggestion is a good one provided the existing finish is in good enough condition. If not then you really have little choice but to strip and refinish.

3. 
   uncleSteve | Jan 30, 2007 05:45pm | #3

   As everyone has said, if the finish is in good shape and is NC, catalyzed, or pre-catalyzed lacquer (will not work over poly), then you can achieve just about any color change you want with a combination or glaze, toner and shading. Spray equipment necessary. Clean, de-wax/degrease all finished surfaces then apply a thin wet coat of vinyl sealer to act as a barrier coat and give a uniform surface to work on. Spray a test section first near the stove (where most of the grease was) to see if there will be any finish reactions like fish eyes. If there is a problem a coat of de-waxed shellac often corrects by sealing in the contaminants. For a step by step pictorial on mixing and using glaze go to: http://furniturerepair.net/Pdoor/door01jpg.htm Steve Nearman Fredericksburg, VA View Image The Master's Touch Furniture Restoration Service Quality restorations and repairs for over 35 years! (540) 371-5566 http://FurnitureRepair.net/

1. 
   BroLuke | Jan 30, 2007 07:21pm | #4

   Thanks for all the advice...Owner has expressed a desire to NOT use chemicals in the home and it all needs to match so I'm surmising IF it's a lacquer finish, there is a way to lightly sand and apply a darkening toner.Like I said we just want to take it from a honey color to a slightly cherry color with a glazing in the corners.Any specific advise of brands of products to use? I'm about an hour away from any professional suppliers or a Rockler.Thanks again,Bro. LukeBro.Luke

1. 
   uncleSteve | Jan 31, 2007 08:57am | #5

   What you need is a magic wand or maybe a pair of rose tinted glasses to give the homeowner to use when they enter the kitchen. Glazing compounds contain chemicals, any type of toner contains chemicals and so does any type of top coat finish.

   Steve Nearman

   Fredericksburg, VA

   View ImageThe Master's Touch
   Furniture Restoration Service
   Quality restorations and repairs for over 35 years!
   (540) 371-5566

   http://FurnitureRepair.net/

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Jan 31, 2007 05:57pm | #6

   Good point.  The whole world runs on products that use "chemicals"--remember Dupont's "Better Living through Chemistry" slogan.  Some chemicals have hazards to be sure, but mindless "chemicals are bad" bleating seems to reflect a woefull lack of balance in scientific education.   

1. 
   Kevin | Jan 31, 2007 07:02pm | #7

   Not only that but in the last few years even water-based latex paints have been reformulated industry-wide to include trace solvents for better leveling properties. I know this mostly because I used to have a favorite fire-retardant additive which could be added to any latex paint, which was a very cost effective way of meeting fire code requirements with certain clients. Unfortunately the stuff instantly turns the latex paint into a cottage cheese consistency if there are solvents in the paint. The manufactorer has stopped marketing this additive in the last year due to this industry-wide change in formulation. Which is a damn shame because it was by far the most user-friendly option out there for interior surfaces subject to fire codes.

   All of which is to say that even with "water-based" paints now days there simply is no realistic way of getting away from the chemicals.

4. 
   byhammerandhand | Jan 31, 2007 07:20pm | #8

   For God's sake if they don't want chemicals, be sure to eliminate any potential contamination from Dihydrogen monoxide. There is plenty of information about it here: http://www.dhmo.org/

   Unfortunately it is a very good cleaner, sometimes called "the universal solvent." It's usually the first thing I use and recommend for a thorough cleaning.

   I believe it's known to cause Cancer in California and soon in Massachusetts and other "green states."

   On second thought, maybe it sounds like a job you have to decline.

   
   

   ---

   Edited 1/31/2007 11:27 am ET by byhammerandhand

1. 
   BroLuke | Jan 31, 2007 08:39pm | #9

   Well,You guys forget sanding! What better way to justify a new Festool Rotex sander<G>I can do drawers and doors off site which will be the worst of it, but face frames are flat.Also I'm after a way to just possibly rough up the surface and add color on top. Besides the fumes there are new granite counter tops ( I know they did it backwards) and I'd prefer to keep anything too gnarly away from that. I'm not excluding anything. HO has said they will take a long week end if too noxious so there is a way, but I'm just trying to offer all alternatives I can learn about.pax,Bro. LukeBro.Luke

5. 
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