I really am stumped on this one. Architectect has designed a 1/2″ glass topped table supported by 6 stumpy cedar things. The cut offs from the cedar things are to be glued to the table top somehow, so they’re like sticking through it. The plan is to drill holes in the flattened, cut to length stumps, epoxy 3/8″ threaded rods in the holes, drill holes in the floor, stick the bolts through and crank ’em down and sit the glass top of them, then stick on the cut offs. I’ve done something similar, but not quite the same, and there’s the rub. I’ve got a laser, I think I’ll wrap tape around the wood at the cut line, sketch a line around the stump and cut all the way around with a Fein cut off saw. Some of the stumps are too thick for the Fein to cut all the way through, so I’d have to finish with a Japaneses pull saw. Ok, simple in theory,but…according to my little pea brain… I’m going to have make the bottoms of each stump a little concave for a nice tight fit to the floor. This might change the height of the stumps as they’re cranked down, which could affect the levelitude of the top. Or worse, make it rock… Then, I’ve got one, and only shot at cutting off the tops nice and smoothly, so I’m looking for any opinions, advice, health warnings, or whatever you got. Thanks, and I will post pics…
Replies
I would use a router to flatten the bottom sections first. Cut the cedar it to within approx 1/2 to where you want the bottom finish cut to be with whatever means you want. (chainsaw) Secure the cedar stump upside down and essentially build a box around it with the top level and just higher than the stump. Now build a sled for your router to ride on that straddles the box. Make sure the sled is stiff enough that it won't sag and make several passes with the router to remove down to your finish cut line. You could even cut the middle 1/16 deeper to get the edges to fit tightly to the floor.
Next secure the stumps in their final location and repeat the process using a guide box that will simulate the table top.
Hope that made sense. If you don't get what I'm saying I can draw a little pic of it and fax it to ya or post it here.
Edited 6/22/2002 12:50:24 PM ET by Tom
Here's thought. Take the stumps and cut the bottoms so that when in the upright position they appear as the architect envisions. Then drill them, insert and epoxy the bolts and secure them their correct location on the floor.
Use your laser level to shoot a line on the logs at the table top height - 1/2". Then rent or borrow a portable bandsaw. Build a jig to hold the saw straight, level and at the correct height, (i would put adjustable casters on it). Now all you have to do is slide the saw along and cut all of the stumps at the same exact height.
Steve - in Northern California
Tom, Steve, thanks for the input. These things are really cypress knees, I don't know where I came up with the cedar stumps. Aliens? I'm still boiling all the info down into the simplest (I'm hoping) solution. Any thoughts on whether or not the 3/8" threaded rod will keep these knees stable when they're inevitably kneed by the diners?
BB
And here's a couple of similars but differents...
Two more cents worth: These are stumps, fitting them really tight to the floor via a concave cut may not be desirable. Being stumps -- a little bit of a "rustic" look is OK. As far as marking them for cutting goes, I would cobble up a height gage and use a pencil, pen, or sharp knife. From what I understand about lasers you won't get the accuracy you need at the glass level with one. The red line is simply too fat. But I don't have one so maybe my opinion is all fat.
The 3/8 bolts ought to hold the legs just fine, no body is going to kick hard enough to shear the bolt or tear it from the floor. But using two bolts per stump/leg will insure that they won't rotate if given a good kick, knee, or nudge.
By the way. A dining table that cannot be moved seems like it will be awfully inconvenient.
Exactly my thoughts about the laser but then with the portable bandsaw in a jig of some sort, you would only have to mark one then set the saw up and cut them all the same exact height.
BTW I think it would be easier to just use a lag bolt and come up through the floor.Steve - in Northern California
Look, I really don't mean to be unpleasant, but that is one of the most heinious sounding projects I have ever heard of.
You are trying to make a living and have to do what is asked of you, but your client and architecht have a sense of esthetics that really are bizzare.
This is an example of what I call the Boshievikization of American esthetics-it's OK to spend lots of money, but not OK to be in the least bit formal, gracious, elegant or sophisticated. What on earth is the appeal of a piece of glass sitting on a bunch of stumps?
Frank
Edited 6/23/2002 1:17:43 AM ET by BISCARDI
Edited 6/23/2002 1:17:56 AM ET by BISCARDI
With no offense meant to Bucksnort Billy,
Hear, hear, Biscardi.
Or put another way, Just because it can be done, doesn't mean that it should. There is no accounting for taste, but the design architect ought to be sent back to school until he learns something.
Rich
You know, I often worndered what might inspire someone to create something like this. Do you think there might be a large window overlooking a lake that has similar stumps sticking out above the water. The designer may be trying to bring some of the outdoors in which is very trendy today.
I think where he's making the mistake is by anchoring this thing to the floor permanently. What happens if the furniture changes or if when its finished they find that it needs to be adjusted a bit. I would have the glass drilled and then use a 1" dowel to join the two pieces of stump together. You could use a shim washer over the dowel, between the lower piece and the glass for adjustment if necessary, you would never see it unless you were to crawl under it.Steve - in Northern California
"You know, I often worndered what might inspire someone to create something like this. Do you think there might be a large window overlooking a lake that has similar stumps sticking out above the water. The designer may be trying to bring some of the outdoors in which is very trendy today. "
Who knows?
My windows look out on all kinds of "natural" outdoor elements. Thankfully, all the furniture in my house shows the attempt of human intelligence (not necessarily mine) to modify natural sources into refined and pleasing, useful designs. When I see furniture created to "look rustic" I start to break out in hives.
Rich
To all, honestly, I'm not sure where the original idea came from, but after a meeting with the homeowner today, we all seem share a lot of the same trepidations. Taste is not accountable here, both the client and the designer like the idea, I'm just there to make it happen. And, no matter what, you've got to admit that the project does have a lot of interesting challenges.
No holes have been drilled yet, but the homeowner does have a 1/2" x 45" x 78" piece of glass with circular ends leaning up against his dining room wall. The knees have been sandblasted and stained(they kind of look velveted antlers, not exactly to my liking, but I don't have to live with them). My job is to make people happy, not to imbue them with my incredibly impeccable taste...so, I'm going to try to make him some kind of dining room table that doesn't make him pissed at me every time he looks at it.
All aestectics aside, is this size table going to be able to seat eight folks for Thanksgiving diner, especially with the prostectics sitting on the top?
You've all been very helpful, and I seriously appreciate all of the input...
Thanks, BB
Here's the real knees:
BB,
Disregard our snooty comments. Do a great job!
Rich
Rich, I didn't mean to imply that that I felt anybody was snooty, to the contrary, and I feel pretty much the same way as you guys do. I run a trim carpentry business, and because I am in the house and can work with wood, it is somtimes assumed I can make furniture. I reluctantly take all of those jobs, I have a singular project focus problem, but I really do love them. I am just not the one to educate a client past the basic physical possibilties of pulling off what they want, I just want to do what they want, no big deal...so whaddya think, will this table seat eight without falling over with the turkey?...
Edited 6/23/2002 9:26:45 PM ET by bucksnort billy
Edited 6/23/2002 9:27:49 PM ET by bucksnort billy
That brings me to a question I'd always wanted to ask. Who is there to decide what's esthetic or not? Of course there are sort of guidelines like the golden proportions but I think most of these guidelines were retrofitted to beautiful things that had existed since the existence of mankind, am I right here? Can 'good taste' be acquired or learned? Otherwise what do they teach at architecture schools? Give me your thoughts.
Tom
Edited 6/23/2002 10:25:44 PM ET by TOMCHARK
Shouldn't be a problem seating eight. In fact, I think it's a tad too wide, but that't just me. What does bother me is, correct me if I'm wrong, if the "antlers" continue up through (well, appear to come through) the glass like I sensed in your sketch, it would certainly make it difficult for conversation, passing the peas, etc. 'Course, one could always spike the buns on the antlers to save space.
If you think you can pull it off well, go for it. It's obviously going to get done with or without you. It's not like they're putting a gun to your head to commit a crime. It's only a table. So you wouldn't put it in your house. So what. It's a challenge. That should make it worth doing. (That, and payday.<g>)
Scott
there even was some talk of turning the tiplets into candelabras...but maybe I'm seein' bunwarmers now!
Eight people should work....you need 24" minimum per person, 30"+ is better....my rough early morning calculations make it a little bit over 30" , but it depends really on the shape...if the ends are really circular, you end up with a straight section in the middle that might complicate things; it might not be very comforatable to sit where the straight makes the transition to circular, but whadda I know?
As far as taste goes....one of my students this year chose to do a presentation on rustic furniture. That's just what turned his crank. Doesn't turn mine much. BTW, how dry are these stumps?cabinetmaker/college instructor. Cape Breton, N.S
Hey Adrian, the ends of the top are indeed circular, like a race track. I'm going to set it on some mockup legs and let the client try it out.
I'm not sure how dry these knees are, I think I'll put a moisture meter on them now that you mention it...
There's something about cyprus knees that makes people think "You oughta be able to make somethig out of these." Don't know what makes 'em think it. I got euchered into carving one of the damned things.
BJGardening, cooking and woodworking in Southern Maryland
A thought on levelling the table top. I'm assuming that the table top will not be secured to the legs but instead will just sit on the framework made by the stumps. If that's the case, then leg levellers on the top of the posts can be used to level the glass. Just insert a "T"-nut into the top of the post and thread in a leg leveller with a jam nut. Twist the leveller until the top doesn't rock and lock it in place with the jam nut.
Another thought, why anchor the table to the floor? If the house is remodeled or sold in the future, then the holes in the floor will have to be repaired. Not to mention the probability of bugs and other critters using the holes for doorways into the kitchen. I'd try to talk to the designer and develop a framework for the table that allows the base to be free standing.
Okay, the new plan: 12inches of3/8" rod through the floor. A nut and washer under the floor, a nut and washer above...cranked down real tightly. Cedar knees would have a recess in the base, and holes drilled for rod and nut...put a few dabs of consruction adhesive in the recess as shimmage, put some thick epoxy in the hole, set it on the rod and let cook.Ê
Now I'm leaning towards getting a new and sharp and slightly bendable Japanese saw (my old one has some missing teeth), making a very flat plywood table with appropriate holes to fit over the already bolted in place knees, and with the ply as a guide, whacking them once and for all...any particular saw recommendations? These knees are already sandblasted (leaving me a nice unsandable texture, thank you very much), and stained ####rusty color), so, I'm worried about tearout...tape won't stick this wood...and I can only get 109V so I can't really crank the laser up...unless, perchance, someone has a spare sack of electric eels...put 'em in an email ettacment...
I would rough cut the within about 1/16 and use a router to finish the cut.
Dustier and noiser than I wanted in a lived-in house, but will probably be the reality after my handsaw cuts. Anyone remember or ever even see a Wel Saw (sp?) the electric handsaw, now that could be the ticket...
Thanks, BB
This is a totaly unqualified comment from a totally unqualifed woodworker. Its neither advice nor knowledge just a thought. It also might not be too safe, it is just something I once saw.
I once watched a guy cut off 4x 4 deck posts with a laser and a chop saw. He had the chop saw mounted on a vertical stand that he could adjust to any height he wanted. Use your imagination here because I'm not sure how he mounted the saw vertically to the stand.
All in all, it looked like a pretty crazy waste of effort to me but he did have nice flat even cuts on those 4x4 posts. Maybe some similar idea could work for you.
Edited 6/28/2002 5:32:09 PM ET by Bernie
Bernie, there's not a lot of ideas that work for me, much less similar ones...but now that you've entered danger into the equation, this job could be entertaining, too!
Perhaps a derivation of this idea might work, if not the plan itself:
As drawn, plan shows 6 legs, which are as you say, going to be tough to level uniformly, esp. given diameter. Do all six legs have to actually bear weight? Could there be a way to shim two (two innermost) with pads to appear to bear weight? Could the metal rods actually support the table with the stumps just floating? This would cut down on the leveling process by alot.
Or...
I am thinking of threaded rods with two nuts and a washer that actually lower/raise the stump from the floor. A very thin piece-1/16-of plate steel with a slot would act as a wrench when slid under the leg. Presumably one could cut with your described methods to that tolerance. I like the idea of the leg off the floor for cleaning (I hate to see furniture disclored by mops, etc.)
Or...
Recessed nuts accessable through holes drilled perpendicular to rod inside leg in the way bench or bed supports sometimes go together, again to raise/lower stumps as in #2 above. Stumps would have washer size hole in bottom for about 3" say, then rod-size hole would continue through to top, giving washer a place to bear. Could then plug holes, perhaps not a problem if you could use some bark or the would is that elusive rustic look...
Take what you like; I would be interested to hear what you decide-
JK
Don't know why there's not y'all in the reply menu...I made 2 2x4 & ply pedestals, sat the top on it, and dang if it won't seat eight close friends...an inch smaller and we're talking circus folks...
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