Friends,
A few months ago, we had a thread about whether new “fine woodworkers” could expect to make it into the middle class. Now I wonder, what are the chances of a new “fine toolmaker” making it into the middle class.
I think it might be far easier to make make money by making tools than by making one-of-a-kind furniture. For one thing, you can make many copies of the same tool, thus inserting efficiency into the system.
Secondly, there are a lot of examples of people who have done very well (probably better than middle class) in the fine tool business. Let’s make a list. (order is not important here)
– Leonard Lee
– Rob Lee
– Thomas Lie Nielsen
– Stewart Spiers of Ayr, Scotland
– Larry Williams (and his partners)
– Mike Wentzloff
– Mr Blue Spruce
– Karl Holtey
THis list is not meant to be complete. Those names just popped into my head quickly, and one of them has passed away. But this list shows that one can do well in the field of high quality tool-making. We weren’t able to come up with a list this long in the field of making a good living by making one of a kind furniture.
Larry’s tools are so popular that he can’t keep up with the demand, even in a bad economy, so he has raised the prices on his tools. From looking at his tools a while back, I felt his tools were WAY underpriced. Charles Stanford pointed that out when he discussed the set of Hollows and Rounds that he bought from Larry. Mike W is another Knots-example of a person who has REALLY made it big in high end hand tools. His saws are gorgeous. He, like Larry, has had an impossible time keeping up with demand in these difficult economic times.
Looking at the list, one can see that one doesn’t need a Ph.D in mechanical engineering to make it big in manufacturing high quality hand tools. Thomas Lie Nielsen had a degree in English, I believe.
So what else does one need to do well in the business of making fine hand tools, besides a passion to make it work?
ANSWER: A modicum of business acumen! Given that some of these folks have disccussed how they made changes along the way, this certainly doesn’t mean that you have to have an MBA or be Warren Buffett. But my guess is that Tom Lie Nielsen didn’t just wall into a bank and ask for $50M to build a factory in deep Maine. I would guess that one needs to have a decent business plan at the beginning, and then needs to modify it as one learns from experience.
Do you remember “Matt in PA”? He has now moved to Connecticut and is making wooden hand planes. He’d be happy to make a nice set of Hollows and Rounds for you. He told me that Larry has been supportive of his trying to make a go in the tool business. Three Cheers for Larry for giving Matt a hand!!!! I saw Matt at a Lie Nielsen show, and he is full of enthusiasm. I wish him good luck.
Also in Knots, we have Ron Brese and Philip Marcou, both makers of fine planes. I don’t know much about their businesses, but I wish them luck.
So, what do you know or think about the chances of making a reasonable living by making fine woodworking hand tools. What are the “secrets” of making it in the fine hand tool manufacturing business? Is it something that more of us should be trying? After all, many woodworkers and kitchen makers have not been doing so well in this economic downturn, while tool makers like Larry and Mike have so much business, they can’t keep up with demand, and Thomas Lie Nielsen and Rob Lee seem do be doing just fine in these poor economic times.
So should more of us try to get into the manufacture of fine tools? From the amount of support that fine toolmakers get on Knots, one would assume, this is a good business to get into.
Of course, I haven’t forgotten that in the previous thread about making it into the middle class by making fine furniture, many wrote back that financial success is only one measure of success. Many reported that they were happy doing what they love to do, even though they were not making much of a living at it. That sounds like a valid way of thinking about success.
Finally, I am thinking about the future of today’s fine hand tools. If you go to a tool collectors meeting, or if you check the prices of old Stanleys on EBay, you will see that many tools are in the thousands of dollars. I believe one hand plane has sold for over $1M. I wonder which of today’s tools will be tomorrow’s collectors items and will fetch astronomical prices.
My guess on this is that Holtey’s hand planes will be the big money makers, and will sell for astronomical prices in the future. There are just too few of his tools and too many tool collectors with deep pockets. However, I tend to think that the tools of folks like Ron Brese and Philip Marcou may well make it into the tens of thousands of dollars in the future. ((Supply and demand)). Given the amount of money an old Stanley Iron Miter Plane goes for now, the current Lie Nielsen version is a bargain. I will bet that Lie Nielsen and Lee Valley planes will be big in the collectors market of the future.
While future increases in value of hand tools are a valid reason to buy and own them, that won’t help current makers of fine hand tools much. They need income NOW, not in a hundred years. However, future appreciation in value is an interesting thing to think about.
Mel
Replies
A plug ;-)
I nominate Philip Marcou for his planes. With a promotion like that how could he resist sending me one ?
Gee, I would even display it at the Woodworking store I work at.
Shill
Bruce,
For a fellow who is apt to call "shill" agin' every other chap who even mentions a tool maker, the melicious one seems to be "recommending" one or two hisself without benefit of any practical knowledge or experience of their tools. Were I on his name-drop list, I would be now very anxious, since praise by Melicious is somewhat of a poisoned chalice, even when the "praise" is faint or contains embedded envy-sneer.
Also, there seems to be a misunderstanding in his clockwork (which has been taken from an old adding machine once used in Wall Street). He seems to feel that success as a toolmaker is synonymous with not just making a vast profit but also entry to some strange klub called "the middle class". Shurely shome mishtake (several in fact) since good toolmakers are motivated by the desire to make good tools so measure their success by how good the tools are. Also, I am confused by the idea of a class system in America. What are the differentiators? Is it just dollar-ownership?
Anyroadup, I am hoping none of the excellent toolmakers now appearing in the world get overtaken by dollar-lust as this will surely be the begining of the end of quality in their tools. On the other hand, I am often impressed that LN and LV seem to (mostly) avoid the downward slide into Stanleyville despite their economic success. What is it about them that prevents their tools from going ticky-tacky I wonder?
Lataxe, trying to wriggle out of the various classes hissel since pidgeonholes clip the wing.
Lataxe.. I sure wish I knew about half of the words spoken/typed/said by you!
I may learn something. I was never good at what the old English said when bartering for goods! A wife could be expensive!
I would think words about you and your very special LadyWife.. I find that a husband or just a lover.. Or both the same..
I think of .. http://www.jstor.org/pss/4174479
I think that is like your woman and your true love... Forever.. Nothing like a Good Wife that loved you as you did to her...
Sorry if !
Sorry if you took some offence to my nominating Marcou planes without having used one myself. BUT, You yourself have many times expressed your love of the planes as well as many other posts on this site, thaty's testimony enough for me. And from the many photographs the have been posted here it is very easy to see and say that Philip creates a remarkable plane that is worthy of praise. I don't have a Rolls Royce, BMW or Mercedes but still feel that they are an automobile worth having and endorsing. I do very much appreciate quality and am hardly, or never will be a class discriminator (socially speeking). And I wish ALL good tool makers well reguardless of their wealth or lack there of.
Just jigging
...on a Mel-post, Bruce, and apologies for stepping clumsily upon your toes. Like you, I would like to praise and recommend toolmakers such as young Philip because of the quality and functionality of their wares rather than because of some kweer idea that its all about making dollars or scrambling up some greasy pole into imaginary social groupings invented by hierarchy fans, celebrity-lickers and other status-addicts.
I recall a past post in which the same dollar-fetishist fellow provided us with the opinion that Philip should outsource the plane making to a sweat shop in China so he could become some kind of marketing executive and make a fortune by exploiting cheap labour, in now classic Big Corp style. The fellow seems unable to grasp the notion that many talented and skilled people make things primarily for the love of making them and all the challenges it brings, not to mention the satisfaction of greatly pleasing the folk who come to use their products.
There was an article about C&W planes in a rival WW publication not so long ago. It was obvious that those fellows had discovered and perfected their plane-making for a number of motives other than money-making. There was even a suggestion of duty to the woodworking world, which personally I find entirely believable, given the praise that buyers of these planes heap upon them, along with C&W's willingness to encourage other makers via distribution of the extensive design and manufacturing information they have unearthed or created, on their "how-to" CD/DVD. The author of the piece seemed flabberghasted at this "unusual marketing strategy" failing to grasp that the marketing was not exactly high on the list of motives but rather an unavoidable mechanism of distribution and enterprise financing for a couple of blokes obsessed with making high quality planes for woodworkers who would make full and excellent use of them.
****
A lot of the discussions concerning high quality tools seem to degenerate into sneers about their cost and jibes about how owners are somehow trying to get into some special "class" rather than just seeking good tools. These jibers and sneerers, of whom Mel is a prime example, are (I believe) simply revealing or projecting their own shallow concerns with money and status on to others who lack such feeble priorities. Discussions of such tools and their makers are much better without the "contributions" of these booge-wahs and their arithmetics of coin and neighbour-envy.
Lataxe
Hahaha .....
I just love reading your posts, specially when you include kernels of wisdom in them. I loved what you wrote about the tool "disappearing" in ones hand when working with them, and now your sage pointing out of the preoccupation with money on this thread. Funny how that works, on one hand the planes are too expensive, on the other maybe it is their solution to riches.... me thinks there is a little bit of envy involved here.
The funny thing is that while I love my LV smoother, and use it frequently, I sometimes wish it was a bit heavier for difficult woods. Because of this thread and that of the Brese plane, I visited Philip's site and found just what I was looking for, his S15A and plan to purchase it soon. WHoever said there is not such thing as bad press must be right.
Keep the posts coming, they provide they provide lighthearted amusement and usually hit the nail in the head.
Jorge.
Phew !
Thats a relief !! I didn't think I was a bad boy. Thanks for the clarification.;-)
See my post on Russell Jennings auger bits, How are your sharpenings skills on those guys?
Fessing up
Bruce,
Despite all my "always get high quality tools" pompo I have to confess to using a very cheap set of augers (and forstner bits) for those larger hole-making tasks such as ladderback chair mortises and the mortise to connect a shaker table top to its leg. This is partly because as a hobbyist I make very few chairs and shaker tables (or other auger-demanding pieces) and partly because I have never discovered top-class augers at a price other than £-howmuch!! There, I too have succumbed to an economy-thought. Doh!
Also, the cheap items work well - seem accurately-enough made - and I suspect it's the materials along with that cheap far-eastern labour that may enable their low cost. I doubt if a professional would find them satisfactory beyond the first few uses. And it would perhaps be the sharpening that would reveal their lack of professional quality in that they would probably need sharpening sooner rather than later; and the sharpening may well reveal softness, variable grain in the metal or other material issues that end up costing the professional time and money.
So, this does put the onus on me to explain why I go for very high quality tools in other areas, such as planes and handsaws. It does come down to function in the end. Those augers meet my functional needs, which are infrequent and very basic. For me, there is no "price" such as lack of required accuracy or an ongoing high maintenance / replacement cost.
But I found (from bitter experience) that cheap planes and handsaws begin as "inadequate" even for amateur-me. They neither performed their function (to even my initially simple standards) nor allowed a decent ratio of usage-time to maintenance-time. I moved from Record / Stanley (the modern junky stuff) to LV, LN and Wenzloff. What a joy, since these tools work very well indeed and are highly maintainable (little and easy maintenance for immediate return to high functionality).
It was something of a leap of faith to acquire a Marcou plane , based also on a bit of trust-via-reputation from various people who had used one. The "need" I felt for one was generated by the difficulties that even LVs and LNs have with some of those nasty woods such as iroko, teak and others having swirl-grain, soft-hard transitions and so forth (or so I "rationalised"). Since I'd acquired large amounts of this kind of stuff gratis (thrown away as trash, would you believe) I persuaded myself that a very heavy and rigid plane, able to be easily configured for many types of grain, would be justified. (Gawd, more economics).
In fact, there was also a lot of lust involved for high-end engineering and craftsmanship in the tools. Indeed, the economic considerations were definitely put to the rear! Nor was there any real boasting opportunities, since the only woodworkers I might try to impress with my ownership of these marvels is the Knots crowd, who are generally unimpressed by boasting fellows and like to see results (i.e. the furniture).
****
Perhaps I oughta go and peruse a Clico catalogue for some of those posh round hole-makers? :-)
Lataxe, entirely inconsistent (like all you other humans).
Of your list of planemakers, Larry Williams is the only maker offering what I would consider a full line of planes - bench, joinery, and moulding planes.
To me, that means something.
And then again I like findings a new Star about 13 Billion years old or older. And like a hand tool worker they have to find a older and better tool? I wonder if that is what we common woodworkers shoud do?
More room for toolmakers?
Possibly, But just look at the new "Stanley" planes ( poor boat anchors) cast aluminum caps ! ( yuck). With this ecconomy I'am getting a lot of WANNABE woodworkers who, have been laid off from their day jobs and, want to get into cabinet making trade, furniture makers, remodelers. They don't have a clue what's involved let alone any talent.
Still Nuttin' But Smoothers
The boutique planemakers other than Larry would find themselves awfully stymied I think if trying to make hollows and rounds, panel raisers, moulding planes, etc. using their normal methods of construction.
So instead they produce of line consisting of short, medium, and long smoothers.
Can I interest you in a 15 lb. jack plane?
Charles,
"So instead they
Charles,
"So instead they produce of line consisting of short, medium, and long smoothers. "
Your tongue is as sharp as your eye.
Mel
The boutique planemakers other than Larry would find themselves awfully stymied I think if trying to make hollows and rounds, panel raisers, moulding planes, etc. using their normal methods of construction.
So instead they produce of line consisting of short, medium, and long smoothers.
Can I interest you in a 15 lb. jack plane?
Oh Charlie, wot a load of cobblers!
Do not confuse "ability" to produce with "interest" in producing. The demand for H&R planes is relatively small compared with bench planes, which form the basic fare of the "big" manufacturers, such as LV, LN, and Clifton (name three well known makers). These guys have to make a living after all. Now if they really wanted to do so, I have no doubt that they could make a selection available in ductile iron. This, if you think about it, makes a lot more sense since the bodies will last longer and casting the shells is no more complex that a bench plane. The only reason they are built in wood is that the smaller manufacturers, such as Larry and HNT Gordon (yes, you forgot about them - so quick you are to make a point) do not have the resources to build in metal. Oh and let us not ignore Mujingfang (who are a large concern with - wait for it - a FULL compliment of plane types!).
Regards from Perth
Derek
Uh oh...mixing a strong dose of reality:
>>The demand for H&R planes is relatively small compared with bench planes, which form the basic fare of the "big" manufacturers, such as LV, LN, and Clifton (name three well known makers). These guys have to make a living after all. ...HNT Gordon ......Mujingfang<<
With the magical land of make-believe looney tunes and exaggeration:
>>15 lb. jack plane<<
Certainly my postal scale reads in error, I've never seen such a thing, not even in infills. I also was unaware that bench planes were not allowed to be used for anything other than smoothing. I'll go take the camber off the scrub.
You're just totally tone deaf to what everybody else recognizes is a little joshin' ... a little hyperbole.
I bet you don't get too many cocktail party invitations.
Ghee...what a surprise..
..The old troll method of: Take a slap at everyone, and then hide behind "oh, it's just a joke, nobody else must have a sense of humor".
Might work if people didn't actually know your history.
Yup, pretty much.
Bully for Mujingfang. Any firm making a full complement of planes is a friend of woodworkers everywhere. I wasn't aware they made H&Rs, panel raisers, etc.
Can you suggest a link?
I'm just glad Larry makes what he makes. S'all I'm saying. I'm also trying to butter him up because I might need to place a special order and I want to be moved to the front of the line. Doubt it'll work though, but it is worth a try.
>>Can you suggest a
>>Can you suggest a link?<<
Google.
MFs planes are bullnose and nosing and not traditional hollows and rounds. They do have a relatively full line of carving tools, spokeshaves, rebate planes and marking gauges. Totally off limits to oil stoners.
A predictable response is coming, I'm sure.
Do they accept custom orders to your knowledge, or does one have to buy from their established line?
I'm kind of surprised by the desire to make money at making tools or making furniture, especially with the idea of confining it to being a sustaining wage and then determining how to do it.
I don't know if anyone in the list above just dropped in to tool making without having been established elsewhere first, and with the exception of TLN, in something related to what they're doing.
as far as collector value, it only lasts until the people who collect the tools are not around if there isn't a new crop of high-wealth collectors. Look at antique tractors. We're in the gilded age of equipment collecting. I think there was a rumely that sold not long ago for $375,000. The buyers are primarily farmers, especially farmers who have had significant land appreciation.
I'd expect that they're going to tank as the living pool of farmers decreases, and some of them are already doing that.
20 years ago, what did hand tools bring? it's probably the internet and exchange of information and knowledge on how to use and set up the tools that's brought them up in value. Will that last? Who knows?
Anyway, I like making my own tools, more than I like making furniture. If Charles is fascinated by furniture, I'm fascinated by tools, how they're made and what makes them work well. I would never want to make them for a living, nor would I want to produce anything that is subject to hobbyist tastes that go chicken and feathers based on what's on the internet blogs or in magazine articles. I suspect they'll be worth zero when I make my grand exit, no matter how well made they are, but that's OK, because it's a hobby, and when it's a hobby, you get to choose your compromises based on your wants. When it becomes an issue of trying to make money figuring out what other people want, then it's all of the sudden not that fun.
Don't see why are you surprised.
Philip, Brese, Holtey are successful because they are doing something they enjoy, I am sure they did not start thinking, "How am I going to make money at this and become rich?". Which seems to be the prevalent thought in this thread. You continue making your planes, as you become more skilled your planes will be better and who knows, your hobby might turn into a profitable endeavour, which I suspect it is what happened with many of the persons mentioned here.
Just to show to you how misguided is this thread, the person who started it asking maybe he should be doing planes to make money, is the same person who farther down the thread puts down those who might buy his planes as "galloot" nimwits who are more interested in playing with their tools. I am starting a business designing and building solid wood furniture, and yes kitchens as well, I use my planes day in and day out, and yet I know what I need and decided to get a Marcou plane which will be used frequently, you should not take so seriously the opinion of someone who wants to be a professional but does not have either the talent or the know how to do it.
Bottom line, keep making your planes and enjoying them, what is written here is irrelevant.
Your answer is exactly what I was thinking (the part about how those guys got to be making tools). They had transferable skills, a desire to do it, there is a market for their goods and they know how to deliver to it.
I suspect getting a sustaining wage via a paycheck from someone else would be a lot easier way to make money (at least with some certainty) than would be making tools.
My hat's off to Matt, i've seen pictures of his planes, they're extremely well done. It's likely that he's doing well as a planemaker, but I'll bet he has made concessions aplenty vs. what his wallet looked like before he changed professions.
Larry already attested to how he got where he's going, and at the giveaway price charles and others got early planes for, I doubt he was shopping for a bentley the next day, either. Same for Karl and others who have been in it quite a bit longer. Karl's pretty blunt on his page, that his business does just get by, and though some people are apt not to believe that, dividing the price of the plane into 100 to 200 hours and considering paying for a shop and funding the equipment is enlightening.
As Confucius stated
Do what you enjoy doing and you will never have to work a day in your life. I suspect that if you asked any of the plane makers mentioned here if they would trade a steady paycheck for what they are doing none of them would go for it, which is the missing ingredient in this thread.
Rather than go the hollow and rounds route I purchased the Bridge City Tools (another guy who is raked over the coals for his expensive planes and items) plane that allows me to switch irons for different edge treatments. You have no idea how much fun I have had with that plane and how it has given my work a special touch. Was it expensive? Somewhat, given the price for the plane and irons, was it worth it? Every single penny!
I find it silly for someone to chastise people for spending money under the belief that no "professional" would use these planes.
I know (in an internet sense) Charles quite well, from long before I came here, i'm not learning anything new about him other than for the first time in probably two years, I saw a picture of his work, which was quite good - and I don't understand why we haven't seen more of it to go along with the trolling (and though you may not agree, some of charles' work on other forums is or at least was pure trolling, nothing positive to go with anything other than harrassing the next person who shared their experiences as a newbie or voiced their excitement with a new Lie-Nielsen tool).
I've seen the galoot definition before. I would hate to adopt a definition and then try to stick by it, just as I'd hate to walk into my shop and feel an obligation to do something (as a hobbyist). You can't do "___" because you're a "___". I get endless crap from one of my woodworking buddies because I will make something by hand, brush on shellac and then *spray* it with waterbase lacquer, sometimes instrument lacquer even on non-instruments that aren't going to see impact (i like how it sprays and rubs out). Every time. He uses my spray setup, and sometimes I mooch his power tools, because they are eons better than mine. It's good fun for him (and me) because he doesn't understand why I would make my own tools, or dovetail the carcase for a medicine cabinet, and then blast the frame with lacquer and rub it out. I just don't care, that's the way I like to do it, and it'd really be goofy to adopt a label almost like a religion and then stick to it. I already have a religion.
I probably make 3 tools for every piece of furniture that I make. I don't know what the definition is for that, but I'd hate to find out because someone would categorize me as a "____" (whatever that's called) and then everyone who didn't like "____"'s would harrass me.
I know quite a few furniture makers, none on here or any other forum. None of them work with hand tools to the extent that Rob Millard, Charles and Warren Mickley do, they are doing more common work and probably in greater volume, half in furnture and half in cabinet making. I've seen enough of Warren's comments to be intrigued and I'd love to see how he works, and he's close enough to my in-laws that it wouldn't be difficult to do, though I'm not going to impose and ask if I can nose around in his business. I don't get the same feeling from Charles (and keep in mind the comment from above), though others do have the same opinion as he does about what to buy and use, it's the delivery (and the history of it, that's not necessarily here). I couldn't imagine finding out anything gainful other than what's doesn't get the rubber stamp of approval - apparently nearly everything.
I do a specific form of analysis as a trade, or profession I suppose. I see things written on the internet that would be professionally horrifying if I even thought for a second that I should follow the writers of them around and try to mind their opinions or troll them about understanding what real "proof" is, what's anecdotal and having a modicum of understanding about possible vs. probable vs. definite. It happens with the newbies in my trade, too, and not just outside of my professional bubble. I just can't imagine waking up in the morning, searching around for a group that I considered 95% lower than me on the totem pole, and then leaving them with back-handed comments and not enough to figure out what the intention of the comment was in the first place ( in terms of a positive yield from it ).
David,
Thanks for info on your background. Now I understand a bit more about where you are coming from. I do see things a bit differently than you do. I take what is said here for what it is worth to me. I don't knock a person who might be trolling. Trolling isn't a bad thing. No-one needs to answer a troll. That is up to you. Just ignore him if you feel that a conversation wouldn't be useful. Also, I don't mind folks talking trash, or being highly biased toward a particular way of working. As long as I can get a handle on their biases, I can read their stuff in light of their biases, and see if there is anything of interest to me.
Live and let live.
I see you enjoy making tools. I have made a few, but in doing so, I realized that it is not what I really enjoy doing. I do admire those who enjoy it and then go at it passionately, whether they do it for fun or for profit.
In starting this thread, I was trying to see if I could understand more of the motivation of Ron Brese or Philip Marcou or Matt in PA for starting up businesses making high end planes for woodworkers. I admire their guts for doing what they want. I have used Philip's planes and Matt's planes, and have seen photos of Ron's, and of lots of other boutique plane makers. Beautiful stuff.
I support these guys (morally, not financially). It is good to have a dream and to follow it. I listed folks who have done this in tool making and have made out well financially, so it is possible. I was wondering about the factors which would help a person be more successful in fine tool making. So far, I have had only one useful reply to this, and it came from Charles. Everyone else is talking around the issue I wanted to get answers to, and that is fine. One can start a thread, but one can't make it go where you want it to go. That is life on the internet. I love it, and I accept it for what it is.
I am not passing judgement on folks who start a boutique tool business, as one person has suggested. I am merely interested in what one can do to help increase the chances of success. I listed some things. Charles added one. I guess others are not interested in the question, or in acquiring ideas that might potentially be useful to Ron and Philip and Matt, and the others.
Try not to be too judgemental about the goals and motivations of others. It doesn't help them, and it doesn't help you. As the Beatles said "Let it be. Let it be." Often I try to understand, but I don't try to change others. That is the job of missionaries and prostylitizers. As someone once told me, prostylitizers talk to prostylitudes. Yuk yuk yuk.
Enjoy the conversations. I try not to take the conversations or myself too seriously. The only reason I do woodwork and talk to others about it, is for the fun of it.
Mel
David,
There was no real need for me to try planes out on really wild wood. I live in Virginia, not Australia. I use woods from the US, and mostly from near where I live. I love curly maple, walnut, cherry, etc. My humble planes do an excellent job on this stuff.
You asked who adjusts the mouths of their planes. I do. It is very easy to do on LNs. I have different blades for my 5 1/2 for doing different things. Using it as a foreplane requires an open mouth. Planing easy wood doesn't require a tight mouth. if i have some problem with tearout on curly maple, I merely close up the mouth, and the problem goes away. I have had some problems on birdseye and a few other woods. Then I switch to a scraper plane, and hand scrapers. Sometimes I use a toothed blade. My humble set of planes seems to do what I enjoy doing. If I start playing with Australian woods, I may have to rethink.
I have found that I continue to learn how to use my tools. Here we talk too much about planes and almost none about saws, for example. The more I use them, and experiment with them, and the more I try to do things I haven't done before, the more skills I get, and the higher my degree of skill.
My focus is on the furniture I am trying to make. So far, my tools have sufficed for the furniture I make and the woods I use.
Best of luck. Why not try to converse with some others. I think you and I understand each other.
Mel
Just a good hobby
If making fine tools was lucrative every machinist would be doing it. It's not.
Making tool is just a hobby to me.
Photos of this week work
Middle class
Look at all the fine tools being made, works of art and priced like a masterpiece. If you make middle class tools to sell as fine tools all you will get is middle class prices and you will be competing with all the other big tool makers like Tom LN and the rest.
To make it selling fine tools you have to make masterpiece to get top prices for your work. You spend 2 weeks making a plane you have to sell it for $2000. good luck at doing it.
Look at the work by John Heinz. heinztools.com its not just toolmaking it's art and art sells
Tom LN and the rest of the big boys just sell tools not art.
John
Very clear statement
John,
Wow. You made a very clear statement.
" Tom LN and the rest of the big boys just sell tools not art."
I think there are many that would disagree with you,
There is nothing wrong with art. I love art.
There is nothing wrong with tools. I use tools.
Tools and art can coexist. Perestroika.
Have fun.
Mel
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