I have been commissioned to build a large dining table with removable 18″ extensions for each end of the table. I am looking for different ideas on how to go about doing this (ie. how to tie in and lock the extensions to the table). Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
N.E.T.
Replies
I have seen purchased dining tables (full size) where those end leaves slide under each end. The ends look thicker of course, but a table cloth is normally there anyway.
To extend one or both leaves, you slide it out horizontally, about an inch beyond the end of the main table. Then you lift it an inch, push it toward the table and it locks into place.
I recall that it works well and the leaves are solid and well supported.
I don't know anything about the mechanism to do it.
This method seems good to me because you don't have to store the leaves elsewhere - where they invariably get scratched. If the edges are done nicely the ends look pretty good.
Hello, Just browsed over your question. I am in the process of building a table like you mentioned & have made them in the past for a store near me.I will be finishing this table this week by Wed. 5/14. My method is to use two long slides with a pin near the apron end and I fabrigate a bracket with a right angle slot to engage the pin after you lift up & push in. My currant tabe is 44" wide X 72" long/ with two 18"leaves for a total of 108"/9'. If you wish I can e-mail you a drawing of bracket & rails. You also need to cut away the side aprons to accomadate the leaves when closed.I can also send you my drawing. ARegards Andy.
That would be great Andy! my e-mail [email protected]
Thanks N.E.T.
Hello Andy
I just read the advice that you gave Andy Cove on Dining Table Extensions. I too am building a dining table as a commission and need to add two extensions to the end. Your advice sounded like exactly the kind of information I need. Would you be kind enough to email me photos and drawings of your dining table extensions? It would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
[email protected]
Edited 9/3/2005 11:27 am ET by Lauren
What you are all describing in response to the original question is a draw leaf table. There are probably drawings that show the mechanism available on the internet, but I've not looked.
Another source that shows how the job is done is that veritable font of woodworking knowledge, The Technique of Furniture Making by Ernest Joyce. In the US the book is called the Encyclopedia of Furniture Making. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Pg. 391....drawing on Pg. 390
376, 378 and 379 in my version BG. Joyce is not the most logically laid out book and it requires some work by the reader to follow, but for the most part the information in the book is first rate.
It's often said that if Joyce doesn't mention it, you'll probably need to invent it yourself. It's not true of course but the phrase gives a flavour of the depth and breadth of the books coverage. Much of what's described is still relevant, even the section on woodworking machinery, although there's no section on biscuit jointers in my book, and the routers described are antediluvian, ha, ha.
In my edition the layout for dovetailing contains an error that will lead anyone copying the method described to unequal tail widths, particularly the first and last tail. I wonder if you've come across it yet, or if it's been corrected in later editions?
I think of the cock-up as being in the 'spot the deliberate error' category Slainte.
Richard Jones Furniture
Edited 9/4/2005 1:12 am ET by SgianDubh
SgainDubh,
I constantly refer to Joyce's encyclopedia, but only as a reference tool to see what can be done and get a basic understanding what needs to happen. I don't have sufficient foundation to execute from Joyce's explanation. I'll use Ian Kirby for the specific process steps and I like Philip Lowe for body position and techniques.
What I find of particlular interest is after I've spent time with the 'how-to' guys I'll go back and re-read Joyce and his information is usually well above and beyond what I've just learned.
I just re-read his tail layout instructions..it seems to be okay..marking the end tails first(1/2 the thickness of a pin)on the end grain and then dividing up the space between into equal parts. Of course, my book was machine made..did they have those machines when you bought yours? haha
BG, check where he instructs you to measure from when you lay a rule at a raking angle across the board to set the centre point of each pin. You could maybe do it for real on the end of a board and let me know what you find, or mock one up on a piece of paper.
The error may have been corrected in later editions of course. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Sgian,
It appears my book is as bad as yours. I measured and marked out twice: once for the center of the tails, once for the center of the pins. Just looking at the diagram you know the procedure will not produce the pins centered...unless you set your 'raked' rule all the way to both edges of the board(in other words, eliminate the 1/4" indentation on both sides). I thought maybe he meant tails, so I marked out according to his procedures...they are quite off-centered. Oh well, looks like my idol has clay feet...
BG, using the instructions in Joyce the middle pin will be centred, and the spacing between the full pins is equal, but the outside two tails are not the same width as the rest of the tails. You're right. The raked measurement across the board has to made from one edge to the far edge because the outside edge of the board is a 'half pin' width and should be the same spacing as between the centre point of any of the full pins.
Joyce may not have made the original error. An artist or draftsman may have done the drawings and the error was noit picked up in proof reading. I'm surprised that the drawing has not been corrected sometime in the last 35 years. Perhaps I should drop the publisher a note, ha, ha. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Sgian,
The good news is I never mark the center of the pin anyhow, too much work for too little value. Joyce says that the true craftsman doesn't need all that measurement, he can do it by eye. I figured I'd be one of those eye guys from the get go...it worked pretty well ...until your double twisted stuff (damn hippie...lol)
Richard,
As a matter of interest, when was your copy of Ernest Joyce's book published?.
I like the quote from Emerson (who was he?)who said:-
"The first and last lesson of the useful arts is, that Nature tyrannizes over our works. They must be conformed to her law, or they will be ground to powder by her omnipresent activity. Nothing droll, nothing whimsical will endure. Nature is ever interfering with Art. You cannot build your house or pagoda as you will, but as you must. There is a quick bound to your caprice."Philip Marcou
1976 philip. I bought a second copy printed in 1980 after someone, er, borrowed my old one.
As to your second question, he was a 19th century American windbag that twittered on endlessly on matters philisophical in prose and poetry, as I guess you already know.
There are websites out there devoted to his life and work if you can handle all the navel gazing, ha, ha--- ha, ha, ha. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
"The first and last lesson of the useful arts is, that Nature tyrannizes over our works. They must be conformed to her law, or they will be ground to powder by her omnipresent activity. Nothing droll, nothing whimsical will endure.I think the Platupuss are pretty cool! And the Ant Eater...
Thank you. I have never been a big fan of this book, but you are right, it does have alot of good information.
The extensions I was planning to add to the table do not store under the table, they come off and get stored elsewhere (it is what the client wants).
Joyce's drawings for draw-leaf table have the main table top only supported in the middle. I would be a little concerned when using solid wood, that minor warping may be an issue.
Any advice?Lauren Waters
L. Waters Ltd.
Fine Woodworking
http://www.laurenwaters.com
I wouldn't generally recommend use of the draw leaf style with solid wood Lauren. The top simply sits over the framework covering the leaves stored underneath. It's not held down firmly to the framework, so if there's any instability in the wood it could easily warp.It's more common to use veneered board for draw leaf tables.
In your circumstances you could mount your main top on bearers that telescope, and another possibilty is incorporate a mechanism in the side rails letting them extend. The spare leaves, in both cases can usually be stored under the main top when not in use. These types are known as fixed stand extending table, ortelescoping tables depending on the pattern and another pattern you could look at is the flip up and over extending table. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Thank you for your advice. It confirms my fears about using the Draw leaf table.
I think perhaps the Fixed Stand Extending Table style may work best with what I want to do. Do you think that this would work ok with solid wood? The client want 2" thick quarter sawn Douglas fir top.Lauren Waters
L. Waters Ltd.
Fine Woodworking
http://www.laurenwaters.com
That pattern could work very well Lauren if the extension or extensions aren't too large. A very large overhang could lead to instability-- moments about a point and all that sort of thing.
The main top can be held flat with stout bearers underneath, and the leaf or leaves stored under the framework drop in as required. A primary consideration with a thick top-- 2" is quite thick, is stability. If the wood is unstable then with it being thick warping could be severe and hard to resist.
Instead of a thick top you might also consider making a 1" thick top with thicknesseing at the outer edges. One way of achieving this and disguising the trick is to glue up overly long panels, cut off the the overlength at either end and slipping and gluing these overlength off-cuts under the main top. The long edges only are made of 2" square pieces, or perhaps 2" X 2-1/2" or 3" wide.
The drop in leaf or leaves need only have locally thickened ends as the thin edges are disguised by the join to the main leaves.
There are several advantages to this strategy.
1. Reduced timber needs.
2. Easier edge joinery.
3. Reduced weight.
4. Easier control of warping/distortion.
5. You can increase the depth of the rails leading to greater structural integrity, and importantly not reducing thigh room too much.
6. Perhaps one or two more I've missed.
Incidentally, it's normal for this pattern of table (when done in solid wood) to have the grain of the top running perpendicularly to the long table rails. This direction is also perpendicular to the orientation of the bearer rails that must be attached across the grain width of the leaves to provide stiffening and are attached with slot screws to the underside. These bearers lock into matching bearers attached to the inside edge of the long frame rails. Slainte.
Richard Jones Furniture
Edited 9/7/2005 3:41 pm ET by SgianDubh
I made one like that (I think) Long ago.. See/or look up Dutch Pull-Out.. Works great... ALOT of work though!
An alternative to the style you describe is where the two halves of the shortened table slide away from each other and a middle section is lifted out from a shelf underneath, turned through 90 degrees and placed down. The two outer halves are slid inwards to butt up against it. This is or was a popular style in the UK.
All the best, I hope this might of some help, or maybe you had already thought of it.
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