Replies

1. 
   Knotscott | Mar 17, 2007 07:25pm | #1

   It should be worth a couple of sharpenings. Even their entry level is pretty good, and some of their blades rival the best. What model is it...Avanti TK306, Diablo 1040, LU86R010?

1. 
   autodave | Mar 17, 2007 07:34pm | #2

   I could not find a model# onit ,but it is not any of the ones you mentioned(it is bare metal not red in color)Ibought it new for about 35.00.How much does a sharpening cost on average,I'm fairly new to woodworking.Are there any blades you could recommend?

    

    

    

   Edited 3/17/2007 12:43 pm ET by autodave

1. 
   wesc | Mar 17, 2007 07:44pm | #3

   Sharpening costs vary by number of teeth.  Usually somewhere between 10 & 18 dollars.  I assume your blade has carbide teeth.  If so it is probably worth sharpening.  If it is steel, throw it away when it is dull and get a good carbide toothed blade.  It will pay for itself in clean cuts and reduced sharpening.  I have used freud blades with good luck and have had them sharpened successfully.  I send them to bull sharpening in Chicago.  (Bullsharp.com) You may be able to find a good local sharpening shop to save shipping but the work can be spotty with some.

    

2. 
   BarryR | Mar 17, 2007 11:46pm | #4

   My local sharpener charges $3/tooth. So a 40T blade costs $12 to sharpen. No shipping, ready the next day. Check the yellow pages under Sharpening Services or ask a local cabinet shop who they use.

1. 
   Buttkickski | Mar 18, 2007 02:52am | #9

   That's some interesting math you're using! I'm thinking you meant 30¢ per tooth?

1. 
   BarryR | Mar 18, 2007 03:23am | #10

   It's the new math, and it applies only to tooth sharpening.Yes, $.30 per tooth. $3 to replace a tooth. Not enough coffee this morning i guess.

3. 
   forestgirl | Mar 18, 2007 12:13am | #5

   Are you sure it's thin kerf.  I'm just not finding a blade that fits the description.  No matter, you can still sharpen it, maybe more than twice even.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 
   

1. 
   philip | Mar 18, 2007 12:23am | #6

   Jamie, what kind of carbide blades are you folk getting there on your planet?? Any carbide blade , even a lower quality, can take many, many competent sharpenings. In fact some even cut better as the chunks of carbide are thinner, with a resultant decrease in friction on the sides....
   Or is there now a "throwaway carbide blade for home users"?Philip Marcou

1. 
   joespehar | Mar 18, 2007 12:40am | #7

   Nobody in this thread said to throw away a carbide blade, just not to bother sharpening one with steel teeth.

2. 
   forestgirl | Mar 18, 2007 04:16am | #11

   I was writing a bit tongue-in-cheek.  Any Freud blade should be able to handle several sharpenings, but some more than others.  I don't know how being a "thin kerf" blade affects the amount of carbide available for sharpenings.  Their industrial full-kerf blades will take quite a few re-sharpenings from what I understand.

   No way any of those blades would be throw-away!  We need Charles in here to help us out, but he might be taking the weekend off.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 

   Edited 3/17/2007 9:17 pm by forestgirl

2. 
   autodave | Mar 18, 2007 02:18am | #8

   I looked on FREUD'S website, I think I have a TK900 series carbide tip thin kerf( this was my first table saw blade I bought)Do you have any preferences,I want to buy another so I have a spare?

4. 
   jeanlou | Mar 18, 2007 04:18am | #12

   To Autodave and ALL

   Someone once said, "Don't believe everything you think".

   I am struck by the way people flock to a bandwagon, hop on and then believe that they are doing things exactly the right way...even if they are not.

   Yes , carbide teeth on a blade is wonderful, but the fact of the matter is that carbide is designed to cut composite material, with lots of resins, hard glue and binders in it. Solid wood cuts very well with high speed steel blades. All you need to do is use the right one for the application. They can be sharpened, the teeth can be set, and the blade can be re-tensioned when it has been overheated by improper use.

   Carbide will cut solids also, but so will a pocket knife. It does not mean that the pocket knife is the right choice for the job, unless you are whittling...and improper use of the best carbide blade will also leave you with a piece of expensive junk, until you have it repaired and re-sharpened by someone that knows how.

   All blades, both expensive and not, are worth caring for and re-sharpening, until there is no more material to sharpen. A good HSS blade that is used properly will last for years, as will a good carbide blade that is taken care of. In fact, even some of the Knotheads here would be able to sharpen an HSS blade to tune it up between professional sharpenings.

   For someone to say "throw it away" if it is made of steel leaves me in a daze, and makes me wonder if we all live on the same planet.  JL

1. 
   philip | Mar 18, 2007 05:03am | #13

   Jean, I agree especially with what you said about ordinary saw plates- they can cut very well indeed. Certainly no reason to bin them just because one has acquired a carbide blade.
   There are a couple of major advantages with ordinary saw plates:- far less power is required and they are very simple to set and sharpen at home.Philip Marcou

1. 
   jeanlou | Mar 18, 2007 05:35am | #14

   Thank you Philip

   North American tool hype has taken many victims. For those who resist, there is a world of fine woodworking available.

   I believe in purchasing great carbide blades and I use them for applications where HSS will not perform...but when it comes to working solid wood, I prefer the results I receive from great quality HSS blades. The same applies to router bits and other cutters. Let us not forget the quality performance that HSS can give.  JL

1. 
   highfigh | Mar 18, 2007 02:41pm | #15

   What are some of the better brands of HSS blades? How much set is needed for ripping maple, cherry and other species that are prone to burning? I'm asking for actual experiences, rather than googling and seeing a bunch of ads.
   "I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."

1. 
   jeanlou | Mar 18, 2007 05:10pm | #16

   highfigh

   All the saw blade manufacturers produce HSS blades. If you want to purchase one chose the brand name you are comfortable with and you will not be disappointed.

   You will need a rip saw for ripping and a crosscut saw for cutting across the grain. Non-ferrous metal cuts very well with the HSS blades designed for this...and so on.

   The more teeth on the blade, the finer the cut. The less teeth the rougher, and quicker, the cut.The factory set will do you just fine. Over time you may try to tweak the set if you feel you want to (probably not). You will also be able to sharpen the saw easily by holding it in a vise and using saw files or even flat files. Just follow the factory angles and give each tooth a similar stroke as you travel around the blade.

   Choose the blade that has the number of teeth and gullet size that will suit your work. The saw blade manufacturer should have a chart showing teeth number and style vs application. It is very much like picking the right hand saw for the job. Note that the number of teeth correspond to the number on a carbide saw, more or less.

   I am sure that you have tried various tooth configurations in carbide and found that it is not the blade with the most teeth that became your favorite to use. The same applies to HSS. Don't be too technical when picking your blades. Go with your gut and pick the number of teeth that you feel will work for you. You will be right 99.9% of the time, based on the experience in woodworking that you already have, and the factory set will do you just fine.

   Note that it is easy to burn a blade, HSS or carbide. When a blade overheats due to improper cutting practice, many people tend to shut down the saw immediately...bad move. Let the blade continue spinning at full speed to cool off, and then shut down the saw. This method will help to keep the saw blade flat most of the time, unless the damage due to poor cutting technique is too great. The worst offense is not properly seating and tightening the blade on the arbour. The next in line is forcing the cut so that the gullets have no time to clear the cuttings...two perfect ways to "ruin" a blade, no matter what type it is.  Remember, HSS is NOT for cutting plywood, particle board, laminates etc. It is for cutting solid wood and also for cutting non-ferrous metal, with the blade designed for this.  JL

2. 
   highfigh | Mar 18, 2007 08:27pm | #17

   I wasn't looking for a tutorial on which blade does what (rip/crosscut, etc) but thanks for what you posted. The guy who does my sharpening calls particle board and MDF "the hot dog of lumber" because you get it all- wood, bark, floor sweepings, ground up metal, dirt and whatever else they can find to stretch their recipe. I probably should have mentioned that I have a Forrest WWII that does a great job for cross-cuts and ripping thinner boards but no dedicated ripping blade. I have other blades for cutting what I don't want to use that one for but haven't used a steel, non-carbide blade since I worked at a lumber yard and, let's just say they weren't sharpened well. Scotty was either well past his prime as a sharpener or he saw the back of a matchbook cover that showed that "you can make money in your spare time by sharpening saw blades and we'll show you how". We used 16" blades on a 7.5HP DeWalt radial arm and a Rockwell-Delta 20HP table saw and I'm genuinely surprised by the fact that nobody lost any body parts. The radial arm grabbed, bit and fought us every time we used it and we had a contract with some railroads for 2x12-3', 3x12-3' and 4x12-3' for when they had derailments and it was usually wet. Scotty's solution was to add more set. Unfortunately, he had one tooth going right, one left, then right, right, left, left (apparently to make up for the two consecutive rights) and while the teeth seemed sharp, I think the blades were well past their prime, as well. I had a neighbor sharpen one after we all got in the face of the yard manager and he said he thought there was too much set. I asked why he didn't switch to carbide and he said they cost too much and waste wood. Huh? The blades also needed re-tempering because of the hot spots. We were ripping some wet, stringy 3"x6" elm (no, I don't mean 4x6) and the blade started wandering, but I don't mean just a little. We got the board off and stood back while the blade shook more and more until it started slapping the opening on the throat plate which, fortunately, was screwed down. We let it spin for a while and made sure it was cooled down enough to swap and got back to work. What I was asking for was specific brands but I haven't really looked for HSS saw blades and didn't know that all blade makers offer them. Now that I know that, I can start looking for one and again, thanks.
   "I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."

3. 
   jeanlou | Mar 19, 2007 04:38am | #18

   highfigh

   That is an amazing story. You may not have seen it at the time, but you have been fortunate to have been around people like Scotty and situations like you describe...and thank God that all your body parts are still attached.  JL

4. 
   highfigh | Mar 19, 2007 06:14am | #19

   Scotty was the old guy who sharpened our blades. Nice enough but they should have found someone else to do it because of the chance that someone could have been really badly hurt. If the blades could go through wet 4"x12" oak even when dull, they would have had no trouble going through someone's arm when the radial arm grabbed. The fortunate thing is that I learned how dangerous badly sharpened blades are and how risky it is to use them, especially on a 7.5HP radial arm. That thing used to grab and one time the teeth dug in and it stopped the motor, even though the breaker didn't trip and the power was still on. After a few seconds, white billowing smoke came out and we were done with that for about a week.There were a few close calls but I think everyone who ever worked there when Bill was around was lucky to get out intact.
   "I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."

5. 
   philip | Mar 19, 2007 10:58am | #20

   Dangeeit, Hifi, y'all learned the wrong stuff there .Philip Marcou

6. 
   highfigh | Mar 19, 2007 03:47pm | #21

   "y'all learned the wrong stuff there"I would agree if I was trying to learn to sharpen blades but I did learn to watch where I put my hands when I'm using a radial arm saw and I still have all of my digits.
   "I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."

7. 
   philip | Mar 20, 2007 10:50am | #24

   "but I did learn to watch where I put my hands".Never a truer word said.If you or your parts are not in the line of cut then there can be no grief. I'd rather learn that than fiddle with some of these safety guards etc.Philip Marcou

8. 
   highfigh | Mar 20, 2007 01:44pm | #25

   "I'd rather learn that than fiddle with some of these safety guards etc."Me too but on some machines like routers and shapers, I still want something that can keep my hands from contacting the cutter if the wood kicks out and my hands go in an unintended direction. I have a line on my table saw top that is obvious enough to see even if there's a lot of sawdust that lets me see if I'm pushing my hands toward the blade. Takes the guesswork out if I'm cutting dados and that's one cutter I definitely don't want to put any part of my body into. I hate the splitter/guard on just about every saw I have worked with but now that it's warming up, I'll be making a new one for mine that is a lot more rigid.
   "I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."

9. 
   jeanlou | Mar 20, 2007 02:00am | #22

   Yup Highfigh

   Count your parts and count your blessings...but learning the wrong way surely opened the door for understanding the right way. That is why I say you were fortunate.  JL

10. 
    highfigh | Mar 20, 2007 03:49am | #23

    That job wasn't where I learned about safety but it sure improved my reflexes. My dad had a Delta tablesaw/jointer combo back in the '50s and when I was old enough to use it, I was shown what to do and what to avoid. I also took woodshop in 8th grade and high school and although they harped on safety, the 8th grade teacher was a drunk and took off part of his thumb (after I was gone) and some of the kids in H S did their own damage (hair in a lathe, bandsaw three fingers into a hand, etc). One reason I'm really careful is that I would like to continue playing my guitar and have only had one real incident with a power tool, and I was extremely lucky with that one.I can still count to 20 with my hands and feet, without resorting to fractions.
    "I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."

11. 
    jeanlou | Mar 20, 2007 01:44pm | #26

    Yes sir, highfigh

    You learned the right way and you also learned what the wrong way can do to you, without having to pay the price of digits...you are a lucky woodworker who can still play all the strings on his guitar.  JL

2. 
   PADDYDAHAT | Mar 21, 2007 05:21am | #27

   phillip and jeanlou, you are my heros. Here I thought that I was the only dummy that thought that the sweetest blades hanging on my wall was a pair of 10" HSS Hollow Ground Planner blades!!!!

   Nothing cuts a miter in wood better. Paddy

1. 
   jeanlou | Mar 21, 2007 06:23pm | #28

   Paddy

   Dummies need to stick together and continue fighting the good fight...after all, someone needs to remind the youngsters that there was woodworking before the Beatles and the Stones and carbide cutters.  JL