I am in the process of buying a new 3HP Cabinet Table Saw and need to know how my garage needs to be wired to accept this new machine (as well as other floor machines). My home was built in the early sixties and currently there is only one recepticle in the garage. Any ideas on the best (and most economical) way to get the garage wired properly?
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Have an electrician install a subpanel in your shop,with at least 50A-75A service. Your saw will probably need a 220v outlet.
Let me know if you're putting your cabinet saw on a mobile base. I might have an ergonomic tip or two for you based on some things I wish I'd done when I hooked up the electrical for my TS.
Actually, Yes. I will be putting it on a mobile base. Any insight is appreciated.
My shop is also in a 2-car garage with everything on mobile bases. Dont know what type of saw your buying, but I'm guessing that it will probably come like mine (PM 66) with no cabling. You'll have to buy the plug & cable then hook it up to the saw. Not a big issue & the instructions were very clear. After doing some measuring between where the 220 outlet was and where the saw was likely to be sitting I ended up buying 30 ft of cable plus the plug end (about $60 at Home Depot). I also had the foresight to realize that I now needed a place to coil up and hang the cable when not in use so I also bought a large J-bracket (kind used for hanging bicycles from garage ceiling joists) and a few machine bolts. I attached the bracket to the back of the saw cabinet and hooked up the cable to the saw.
Everything works fine and it's functional. But after 4 or 5 years of using this, I've come to wish I'd done things a bit differently. If I had to do it over I'd only hardwire enough cable onto the saw to get the plug end around the back of the saw and out of the way. Then buy a separate 20-30 ft pc of cable plus both a male and female end and make an extension cord to go from your power outlet to the saw. The 220 cabling is pretty thick and just barely fits onto the bracket I installed. I can see some benefits to being able to separately coil up the cable and hang it somewhere out of the way. The TS is the only 220V machine I have, but if I want to later add another 220V machine I'll have to spring again for a full length cable instead of a 3-4 ft pigtail. I kind of doubt that even if I had more than one 220 machine that I would be very inconvenienced by only having one cable available to get to the outlet. I'm not very likely (given the size of my shop & everything being mobile) to need multiple large 220 machines set up at the same time much less trying to have 2 or more powered on at the same time.
If you're able to plan your outlet location try to locate it to the side of the saw that you think you're going to be walking around the least. The 220 cable is fairly thick and can be a trip hazard. Also pay attention to the direction that the cable is going to hang off the plug end and orient the outlet box and jack so that the cable hangs the way you want it to. The 220V outlets in my garage were already there and weren't in the optimum location or orientation.
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While I was writing this some other folks suggested putting in overhead outlets. I've got quite a few overhead 110 outlets that are extremely handy and was also going to suggest this, but then reconsidered. I think you run the risk of having the cable interfere with cutting sheet goods or crosscutting long pieces. At the very least, you'd have to go off to the side quite a bit, before going up. I think this is maybe just one of the compromises you have to deal with small mobile shop setups.
Edited 12/1/2004 1:47 pm ET by douglas2cats
"I'm not very likely ...to need multiple large 220 machines set up at the same time much less trying to have 2 or more powered on at the same time." What about dust collection? I too have a small shop, but when I get a dust collector (1.5 - 2.0HP), both the table saw and the DC will be running on 220 to keep the total amps pulled from the panel down to a reasonable percentage of the total available.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
You've got a point. Given that my "dust collector" is a large DeWalt Shop Vac (110) and I don't have the space for a true dust collector, I didn't consider it. I was mainly thinking along the lines of eventually upgrading to a bigger/better (220) bandsaw and not needing it and the TS wheeled out and set up at the same time.
"both the table saw and the DC will be running on 220 to keep the total amps pulled from the panel down to a reasonable percentage of the total available."
Actually, it doesn't matter. If you have, say, a 240V/50A subpanel, it can deliver 50A at 240V, or 100A at 120V (50A on each leg). If you run tools at 120V, they use twice as many amps, but you have twice as many total amps available.
The easiest way to think about it is in terms of wattage. A 240V/50A subpanel is 12,000 W. A machine that draws 20A at 120V is 2,400 W, which is 20% of the panel capacity. The same machine wired for 240V will draw 10A, which is still 2,400 W, still 20% of capacity.
Wiring tools for 240V does have the advantage of distributing the load across both hot legs of the subpanel.
Troy,
I would suggest a 100A service panel. Since you don't know how you needs will change, I would have at least 1 30A 220 circuit, several 20A 220 circuits and the rest as 15A 110 circuits. Also, you want to consider placing outlets overhead for both 220 and 110 and elminate the extension cords on the floor.
Doug
Have an electrician evaluate your situation. What you need to have installed will depend on existing capacity. Do you have a 200 amp service panel or something smaller? Do you have a breaker box or an old style fuse box? What capacity is left in your service panel? What do your local building codes require?
If you are comfortable doing electrical work, then you can do some of it yourself. If you do not feel good about it, it's worth paying a professional to do it. The life you save could be your own.
My Grizzly 3hp saw is rated at 18amps at 230. I put in a 30amp circuit for the saw (provided a little extra capacity). I have a 20A @ 230 to handle my 2hp 17" bandsaw. I had 4 20a's at 115 installed, for the standard power tools i.e. routers and such. I had enough spare capacity in my existing panel to supply my shop without expansion, but that was my situation. I use a two car garage as my shop.
When I had my shop wired this summer I thought about the layout of the tools, and the approximate draw (in amps) that it would require and the distance of the runs. Had the electrician review my needs and instructed him to allow for some expansion if needed for future 220 runs (Christmas is coming you know).
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
Many thanks to all responders. I will most certainly be having a professional perform the work.
Question to those using two car garages - do you use the space strictly as a workshop or do you have the ability to use the space for parking a car or two? If any of you are like me, my wife has certain stipulations when it comes to my woodworking, and one is that she can park in the garage.
Candid answers are welcome.
Well that is an interesting subject. The deal was I would use half and the wife could still park her car. I put every thing on mobile bases and use half the garage. However, as things progressed over the summer, I had to put all the other STUFF (freezer, mower, ladders, etc.) on her side.
Now she cant get in. I have promised to build a shed this summer and get the stuff out so she can park. I am going to get her a remote start for this winter (buy's me a little peace anyway). Of course my Harley takes up some space on her side, but that's another entire subject. You get the picture. I'm curious how other's handle this. By the way, been married for 20 years.
"Question to those using two car garages - do you use the space strictly as a workshop or do you have the ability to use the space for parking a car or two?"
My shop is our two-car garage. The equipment is situated mainly on one side of the garage with much of it on mobile bases. I can roll everything into 'my' half of the garage so my wife can put her car on 'her' side. I have things set up so I can still function at almost full capability with 'her' side of the garage ready for her car.
On the question about power, the entry panel for our house is on one side of the garage, so all I've had to do is run additional circuits to my tools. It's a 200A service, so no problem with capacity. I ran a 220V, 30A circuit to handle the tablesaw and dust collector. I also ran a couple of 110V circuits for other tools.
My tablesaw is a 3HP Jet with an extension table that houses a router lift and storage cabinet. This is on a single mobile base. Initially, I used the short power cord that comes with the saw to plug directly into a 220 outlet on the wall. Later, I added a 30' length of 10/3 w/ground; mounted an outlet on the saw and plug the extension into the wall outlet. On the extension part of the table, I mounted a 110V outlet and split the 220V line out of the extension cord to provide the 110. With this arrangement, I can roll my saw onto the driveway, if I want to, in order to handle full-size sheets.
Regards,Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
In 1985, my wife got an Eddie Bauer Ford Bronco. The first time she tried to put it in the garage, the antenna rattled against the garage door and the roof clearance was less than 1". For reasons that escape me, I failed to mention that I could have adjusted the door to open a bit further and the garage became mine <snicker, giggle, leer>.
The Bronco is long gone and her Dodge would fit fine if she ever figures how to make that hard left just past the table saw. - lol
Troy, have you tried the one about new car paint actually improving when parked outside? Oh, go ahead and try it...........nothing ventured, nothing gained.
First, the lighting is supposed to be separate from the recepticles. Second, the more junctions there are in any line(in this case, from the wall to the saw motor), the higher the resistance will be and that means there will be a greater voltage drop. This means that you will be more likely to have a premature motor or switch failure. Since you will be moving the saw into position, make the connection on the saw and put a plug on the end so you can have the minimum # of connections. I have a Grizzly 3HP saw and went to HD for a 10 ga extension cord. I cut it to length and installed the plug that matched the receptical. The cord is also heavy enough that I have never had a tripping incident since the loop lays flat on the floor. I also place the saw so I can't go around the right side, which is where the cord comes from. I twisted the cord so there are 3 loops and when I finish, I lift the loops and hang them on the end of the fence that overhangs the back of the saw, then roll it against the wall of the garage. I may install a hinged arm with springs hanging down to carry the cord so that when I pull the saw out, the arm swings out and the cord hangs from it. I don't see this keeping the cord out of the way, though. 220 (220, 221- whatever it takes) is basically the measured voltage across the two feeds that come to the house. If you look at the feeds on an oscilloscope, one waveform will go up and the other will go down. Hook one lead to one terminal and the other lead to the remaining terminal and you get the same work done by less current based on the power formula, P(power)=I(current)xE(voltage). This works for AC and DC. Every device needs a certain amount of current to the work it was designed for. If(for design purposes) a motor is rated for 3HP, it will draw 746 Watts/HP, or 2238 Watts. 2238W/120V=18.65A and if you go to 220, the draw is 10.17A. This is continuous draw, not peak at startup or under load. The longer the cord is, the more resistance there will be and the less voltage gets to the motor, unless the wire gauge is increased to accomodate the length. Also, if the wire or terminals get hot, they resist more and you'll have the same result- voltage drop. Same thing that kills a starter when the battery is run down.You're gonna like having the 220V in the garage and being able to do pretty much whatever you want without having to rig anything, just plug it in and go. Have the electrician put in more recepticles than you think you'll need. All you'll gain is flexibility. It's not as if you'll be running things out of all recepticles at the same time, anyway.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Edited 12/1/2004 8:19 pm ET by highfigh
Mine still has one car parked in it, as well as a Honda GoldWing cycle and snowblower (in the wintertime). It's a wonder I've squeezed as much machinery in there as I have.
douglas2cats,
"It's a wonder I've squeezed as much machinery in there as I have."
Yes, all that horse power in such a little space....and yet no smell of manure...no dirty straw or hay....but do we get any credit, not likely...lol
Funny, I have some similar questions that I was going to poise to the group today so here goes -I am most likely going to order the grizzly 3hp 18amp cabinet saw shortly. If possible I will add a subpanel to my garage with some 220 and 110 in the near future. However, in the meantime I only have access to the 220 in the laundry room. The dryer receptacle is a 10-30R and is attached to a 30 amp breaker. Would there be any problem running the TS off of this? Not having much electrical know how I am a little unsure since the 10-30R is a 3 pole 3 wire circuit and I believe that most garage type machinery would use a 2 pole 3 wire grounding setup (a 6-20R or 6-30R for example).Could I create a 25 foot extension cord to feed my new saw with a male 10-30P end (to plug in the laundry room) and a female 6-30R end (to plug the saw into) then attach a short 6-30P plug to the cord on the saw motor?Thanks
"I am most likely going to order the grizzly 3hp 18amp cabinet saw shortly. If possible I will add a subpanel to my garage with some 220 and 110 in the near future. However, in the meantime I only have access to the 220 in the laundry room. The dryer receptacle is a 10-30R and is attached to a 30 amp breaker. Would there be any problem running the TS off of this? Not having much electrical know how I am a little unsure since the 10-30R is a 3 pole 3 wire circuit and I believe that most garage type machinery would use a 2 pole 3 wire grounding setup (a 6-20R or 6-30R for example)."
The 10-30R receptacle is an old style that is not grounded; it has two hots and a neutral so it can supply both 220 and 110 to the dryer. The saw needs two hots and a ground. It's possible but not necessarily likely that there's a ground wire inside the dryer receptacle box; if there is you could possibly install a suitable grounded receptacle in a box next to the dryer receptacle, and then run an extension cord from it.
Like others have said, installing a subpanel in the garage would be nice, but it may or may not be absolutely necessary depending on your circumstances. If the garage is close by to the main panel it's not so hard to run individual circuits from there, and if you don't have big plans for lots and lots of power tools all running at the same time the electrical requirements aren't as rigorous. For now you could get by with a single grounded 220 30 amp circuit to the garage. If it were me I'd connect it to a couple receptacles - one located where you'll normally park the saw, and a second one by the garage door so you can wheel the saw outside in nice weather.
By the way, to properly size the circuit multiply the full load current rating of the saw motor by 125% and then use the next larger size circuit breaker. For an 18 amp motor, that's 18 x 1.25 = 22.5; next larger standard breaker = 30 amps. (you may be able to find 25 amp breakers but they aren't as common.) For a 30 amp circuit, use 10 gauge wire; if the run is really long you may need to upsize that, but unless you have a really big house you probably won't. There are a number of voltage drop calculators available online to figure that out if necessary.
Considering that your table saw will draw under 20amps@220v (full load), a 30amp@220v circuit using a 10g extension cord from the recept would be sufficient - even with a modest dust collector on the circuit.
I don't think a garage shop is big enough to need a second 220v circuit. Whatever 110v recepts you have should be enough.
Put your lighting on a separate circuit from everything else, that way if a machine pops a circuit you won't be caught standing in the dark.
John W.
Run at least 2 20A 110V circuits for receptacles, so that every 4-5 feet you have four places to plug in a tool (two on each circuit). When you are running multiple tools you can distribute them between the two circuits (e.g., sander, shop vac, an extra light and a cordless battery charger).
A garage shop is unlikely to need more than one 30A 220V plug; if you have mulitple 220A tools, put them on mobile bases and plug in the one you are using.
If you have kids, you might consider putting in a shut off switch to the 220V plug, mounting the switch high enough that little fingers can't reach it. Leave this off when youare out of the shop so there is no chance a little one could turn on the saw (if you leave it plugged in).
Finally, be sure the electrician adds a sub panel to the shop, unless your current service is already somewhere on a garage wall. This makes adding new circuits later so much easier, and prevents you from having too many wiring "home runs" running through the rest of the house to the service box.
Good luck,
Paul
Troy,
I have almost finished my shop, waiting for some dust collector hose, so I can make final connections and I'm done.
For the electrical, I purchased everything except the main cable from Lowes and it was about 14 hours of work to wire my whole 3 car garage for 220V
This is what I used:
70 A 2 pole breaker in main panel, fed to a Square D sub panel with 4 gauge cable, having ground, 2 x live and a neutral.
The sub-panel installed in my garage, with 6 x 20 Amp Square D breakers.
Each breaker feeds a 250 V L20 , 2 pole 3 wire grounding receptacle (twist lock) in the roof, with 12 gauge wire.
Since I have racks in my garage, my six 220 V machines are not against the wall, so all the receptacles are in the roof.
All the materials cost me around $380
All my machines are on mobile bases, so I move two cars out of the garage, roll them in place, plug in, connect my dust collector hoses to pipes installed against the roof and my workshop is ready. After I'm done, everything rolls back into one bay and I can park my cars in the other two.
Jellyrug
Oh man, I almost answered this argument....again.... One of these in a lifetime is enough... LOL... Just call an electrician and be done with it. You will sleep much better at night.. trust me.
BTW the reason 220v saws and equipment no longer come with power cords is due to lawsuits generated by misunderstood advice. Our insurance company even made us take them off the older saws that we have in our inventory.
Sincerely;
The Tool Guy
"BTW the reason 220v saws and equipment no longer come with power cords..."
Just curious. When did this change? The Jet cabinet saw I bought early this year had a power cord (minus plug) on it. It had very clear instructions on connecting to 220V as well as changing it to 110V, if desired.
Regards,Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
Ditto on the cord question. My grizzly arrived a few months back and it had a cord (minus the plug). The 17" BS I bought in April came the same way. I just assumed it was because of the varying types of plugs and services that are available.
"My grizzly arrived a few months back and it had a cord (minus the plug). "
Since there are different standards for plugs/receptacles, it makes sense not to include the plug. Also, most of the machines can be wired for either 220V or 110V.
Like you, I'm waiting for a response about when and why "they" quit putting any type of power cord on machines.
Regards,Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
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