Fairly new woodworker, ground a couple fingers on band saw last week and now I’m struggling with some fear using my large machines. I’m particularly freaked out about my table saw now. I’m an older gal, only 5’2″ and by the time I get my piece past the blade, my forearm is very close to the blade. Also I can’t get that far back without having my body in front of the cutting area, thus I’m exposed to kick back. I have a large Delta table saw on thick metal tube stand.
Anyone out there ever switched one of these saws over to a cabinet? Should I cut the tubing or remove the saw from the stand completely?
How high should I make the table saw top for my height?
Thanks
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Replies
It seems to me that in your working position your elbow should be 3" or 4" above the surface of the table saw top. If you are unable to accomplish this by somehow lowering the working surface of your saw could you perhaps build a platform to stand on in front of your saw? Push sticks are also critical in order to safely use a table saw.
Thanks joeblade. 3"-4" doesn't sound too bad. I was wondering about a platform but was thinking it would have to be pretty tall. Concerned about cutting sheets of plywood. My 6'3" husband helps me with those but we'd still have to step up and down over the platform when ripping longways. Might be the way to go though. Taking the saw apart seems pretty intimidating.
A photo of your setup would help us respond; or the model # so we can get a look at it. Hopefully what we'll see has the standard safety features on it... "forearm is very close to the blade" has me thinking you may not.
My saw is very comfortable to work at and the table is 34" from the floor, 10" below my elbow and 6" below the point of my hip. I am 5'10" tall. At that height I have plenty of leverage to press down and lots of room to lean forward. Standing to the side of the cut line is easier when you can bend at the waist. Modifying the height of your saw to suit your height is a good idea... they are built for the average sized male.
I took a contractor-style tablesaw off the metal stand and built a storage cabinet under it incorporating dust collection and was very happy for years. Removing the stand in my case freed up the mounting holes and gave me a nice flat bottom to mate to the cabinet unit. The added mass of the full cabinet was a win in terms of reduced vibration.
Thanks mj! See attached. It's an earlier model from about 5 years ago but looks exactly the same. Mine is a Delta 36-5052.
I'm not sure how you can make that lower. Not more than an inch, at most, if you remove the feet. I'd be leery of standing on a platform though. It seems like it could be a serious trip hazard.
Rule of Thumb: Never have the saw blade protrude more than 1/2 a THUMB above the thickness of the material your cutting.
More than that though there is no reason that your hand should ever pass the blade or be between the blade and the fence. And yes, you will find many ytube type videos of very experienced woodworkers doing just that!
What is your forearm doing being " close to the blade"? You should concentrate on techniques on handling material so that your hand(s) are not close to the blade. I make a push stick out of plywood about 6" wide and a couple of feet long. I cut about a 1/4" off the bottom to a stop towards the rear and cut a hand hold above and behind that and this is done in such a way that the work piece has passed through the blade before my hand reaches the blade. I start with the push stick wide so that I can recut a new bottom and stop when it becomes necessary and still have my hand far from the blade. I use my tablesaw everyday and I find that the push stick can last a year or more before I need to replace it.
After a cut there is a tendency to want to reach over the blade and retrieve the piece that was just cut and while the blade is still moving. The solution to that is don't! Turn the saw off and wait. Having an extension on the back side of the saw table means that the stock does not tip over the back of the saw after the cut.
I'm assuming that the saw your talking about is a Delta contractor saw since you say it's large( not a plastic version) and the top and base are in two parts. Those are pretty good saws ,or good enough, and have serviced many serious woodworkers. There are 4 bolts holding the saw to the base. If the base is from the manufacturer I find that they most likely did the math for stability- shortening the legs would possibly change that equation and make for a potentially tippy saw. Shortening from the top of the base will be more difficult but result in a more stable saw....or make/ buy a new base to accommodate a desired height. Take in mind that if it is a Delta contractor saw it weighs in at about 300 pounds.
A cabinet saw will not solve your height problem. A platform I would think needs to have a pretty large footprint both in length and width, more like a raised floor area more than a step up.
Experience will teach you about potential kick back situations but a lot of kickbacks are caused by improper fence adjustment or trying to cut material that is too hard for the blade and that is often the result of a dull or not sharp enough blade. Sometimes tension is released in boards causing it to twist and possibly jamb. I've had kickbacks and in 50+ years of this I've been slammed twice -and yes it hurts. An off to the side stance is a technique you need to master. When things go south with these machines they go real fast,faster than you can react so trying to save the piece is not a priority- you save yourself. With all of this said I don't see a table saw as being particularly more dangerous than many other machines. Jointers come to mind and almost any hand held spinning / cutting machine is far more dangerous. I can show you a nice deep scar I have from mishandling a Dremel tool! Seeming benign tools can fool you, the larger machines can be intimidating and therefore one might find themselves being cautious around them.
Don't put your hands where you can be cut and you won't be. If you abide by that a Sawstop saw ( which someone will undoubtedly suggest you buy) isn't necessary.
You've already experienced what a bandsaw can do. Gary Bennett lost a finger with one. How Sam Maloof ended up with ten fingers considering the self admitted dangerous way he used it is a small miracle. I keep a push stick handy. That last bit on a cut towards the end of a board will potentially split off and the board being cut will lurch forward along with your hand if your pushing from behind. It can come as a surprise! Same rules apply ,if you learn to get things done while keeping your hands where they can't come into contact with the blade they wont!
Thanks for taking time to respond. Lots of great information and truly appreciated! You’re right, I do see a lot of things on videos that I wonder about.
I see what that saw is now. Probably considerably lighter than the old Delta contractor saw but otherwise kind of the same idea. One could remove the bottom and build a new base and possibly in such a way to still be able to utilize the clip in pipe arrangement or I'd think a muffler shop could make you a new shortened version of that stand. I can see what would happen though..I d run it by the muffler guys ,I wouldn't like the quote and revert back to option one even though it would be a spiffy way to do that.. BUT, in your case it you decide that you will no longer put your forearm over or past a spinning blade the existing height might not be a problem for you. Somewhere in the literature that came with the saw I'd put money down that it says somewhere. "Never reach past the blade"
Ok I had my husband take some pics so you can see my height and how close I am. You guys tell me if this is normal and safe or if I need to move it to a cabinet that’s lower.
You would rarely have the blade raised all the way up like that. I usually have just about one carbide tooth height raised above the top of the piece I'm cutting. It's much safer.
I’m 6’2 and all my stationary equipment is on 2 inch thick skids, I imagine that to be at ease, you could use a lower table but I don’t think that will make a big difference. If you feel that your hands are too close to the blade, then they are. If you google tablesaw push block you will see all kind of solutions to your problem, the grr ripper would likely adress your concerns.
And yes I hear you, don’t reach past the blade. :) One thing I didn’t mention is that most of my projects in the past have been using large pieces, book case etc. now I’m starting to cut small pieces and I’m just not sure how to do it. Thanks again for your time.
To me, the top of the table looks well above your belt line, maybe just below your navel.
I'm very tall, 6'4", but I have made a base for my saw, so the top of the table is just where the bottom of my belt would be.
Everyone's torso heights are different, but I'd say the top of the table to the bottom of the belt or at your hip flexor would be a good gauge.
You definitely need to use a good stable stool. Please don't reach over that blade; as I was reading this, I was cringing out of fear for you.
Opening your arm isn't the only concern.
Complete follow-through is critical to preventing kickback. Looks like your guards are in place, but you would need to remove them for the small cuts you mentioned.
Also, as others have mentioned, the rule of thumb is to keep the blade 1/8" above the cut. The blade being that tall in your picture was, hopefully, not how it's being used.
If it is, definitely change that. That'll open up a lot of space.
Thanks for the input. I do think I want to modify somehow. I’ll do some research on safely cutting small parts.
Maybe making a big block to use as tall pushblock type thing. might take some desiging and thought but seems like a good idea at first thought.
Someone mentioned that above too. I’ll do that. Thanks again.
Are you cross cutting or ripping “small parts”?
Hi ripping, I use miter for cross cutting. Not sure how to answer that for plywood. I use table saw to cut plywood both ways.
I'd consider lowering the saw to relieve your anxiety about using it. Some good suggestions above mention building a custom shop built wooden base (with dust collection) to bring it to comfortable working height. Removing the TS wings and the motor lightens the saw cabinet to where it can be unbolted from the existing base and safely moved onto a new base. The Woodsmith and ShopNotes publications have detailed plans on building your own tablesaw base if you decide to go that route.
Or a platform to raise herself up might be a lot easier.
Good to know, I'll take a look. Thanks!
I like your shop and wood rack(s)!
I would think about making a platform carefully before going that route. I would worry about my footing being less than secure when working with and around the TS. If you are dealing with a large sheet of plywood, you could potentially trip or step off the platform while the blade is spinning. I think lowering the saw is a better (albeit probably more labor intensive) option. I would also consider making an outfeed table. without one, you are applying so much downward pressure to keep the workpiece from tipping, that you can end up getting in trouble.
Thanks I love my rack. It’s a combination of some I’ve seen online.
I gotcha. Outfeed table is on my list but maybe I need to bump it to the top.
Lots of good suggestions here, though I'm not too keen on the idea of being up on a platform....too many issues if you need to react suddenly to a problem during the cut.
I'd suggest an entirely different approach. You mention you're pretty new to woodworking and clearly nervous about a having a serious accident on the tablesaw after a previous accident on the bandsaw. Approaching the tablesaw with respect, good technique and careful attention is good, approaching with trepidation is not.
Why not find a class nearby that would provide expert instruction, practice and supervision on using large powertools? I suspect you could also find a teacher or other professional woodworker to come to your shop and provide the same instruction and perhaps some suggestions along the line of what you're hearing on this forum. The cost would be well worth it!
Thanks I did actually take a class at Florida School of Woodwork. They are awesome! It was a lot to take in and it’s been over a year ago. I feel like I could stand to take that introductory class again now that I have a little more experience and more tools. Thing is it’s a week vacation and then I don’t get time for r&r. I would love to find someone to come here and give me some tips on my own tools. I’ll look into that.
That saw looks to be at a reasonable height for you. If you do want it lower and it won't come off the stand, I would sell it and buy one which does not come with a stand. If it will come off the stand, make a cabinet to have it sit atop.
It is ok to use a platform for cutting small parts, but generally speaking you should not have your fingers close enough to the blade for concern. Finding the right shape of pushstick can help a lot. I like these ones: https://ibuildit.ca/projects/plywood-push-stick/
and birds-mouth. The John Heisz ones are quite good as when they get battered, you can just cut another bite out of them and they are good as new.
For cutting small parts, an auxiliary fence which is lower can be helpful and a crosscut sled can be used with toggle clamps or a pencil.
Kickback is very rare if you have a guard and riving knife attached. Wearing an apron and good eye protection will make serious injury ridiculously unlikely.
I agree with the sentiment that if you don't feel comfortable, don't do it, but I would add that familiarity breeds contempt and many injuries occur when people are not sufficiently scared of their tools.
Thanks for your input. I know I need to set up jigs and sleds. Something else I need to make a priority.
I worked in production machine shops for 9 years. Every machine had a pallet-like platform that we stood on to give us good access and vision. You don't have to use plywood; nail long boards to a few 24" 1x4s spaced about a foot apart and you'll be fine. The other advantage to platforms is that they have some give and are easier on your feet than concrete if you're going to be working for several hours.
Oh gotcha! Good point. I also have RA so anything that helps my joints is great! Thanks!
Thanks, mschlack. One of the great things about this forum---we get counterpoints and suggestions from those who have working experience relevant to the question rather than just opinions (which have their value too).
another approach is to use a track saw to cut sheets of plywood. It’s easier and safer than wrestling a large, heavy sheet onto the tablesaw and the results are usually better.
Thank you I’ll certainly try that as well!