Have just found this forum and am impressed. I have not had an opportunity to read many of the topics so this may have been covered in depth before(if so please direct me to the appropriate post). I am in west Texas and do not have access to large tool dealers for demonstrations of cabinet saws and I’m needing to upgrade the craftsman contractor’s saw purchased 4 yrs. ago. Does anyone have any first-hand experience with the General 2hp. cabinet saw? Specifically, what sort of performance enhancements can I expect over the 1 1/2 hp. craftsman? I’m assuming the fence will will leave the sears a-line-a-rip in the dust. R.I.P being the most accurate part of that name. I have read every tool review I could find in the last 6 months or so, but have not found any user reviews on the 2hp. saw. I like the price if the performance is acceptable for a home woodworker who needs a little more than the craftsman can provide. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Nu1
Replies
Welcome to Knots, Mike! Great to have new members for the new year.
This'll get you started:
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-knots/messages?msg=11153.2
forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Thanks for the responses. The model I was interested in is a General International, which causes me some concern, maybe unfounded. The model # is the 50200 but as previously mentioned, not much info available. I was hoping someone had one and could share their experience. I was considereing one of the hybrid saws but this forum as well as other reviews I have read have convinced me that those would not be much of a step up from what I am currently using. I may have to break down and purchase a 3hp. saw and be done with it. I looked at the forum with the pics for the first time last night. There are some talented people out there. It must be my saw holding me back!
How much difference will I notice if I upgrade to a 3hp. model as opposed to my craftsman?
Mike,
The DeWalt hybrid saw would be a huge step up from your contractor's saw. I've used one several times and found that with a good blade on it the saw has no problem at all ripping 2 inch thick oak at a good feed rate. The sliding table makes it a real cabinetmaker's tool. If I were going out tomorrow to buy a saw, the DeWalt would definitely be on my short list of machines to consider.
The motor on the Dewalt is American made and delivers the maximum horsepower you can get out of a 15 amp circuit. A lot of manufacturers would have hyped it up as being more than that. I admire DeWalt for only listing its honest rating even though that makes it look less powerful than their competitors glorified numbers. I have yet to see a Taiwanese motor that is as powerful in actual use as its American equivalent in rated horsepower.
I would be suspect of both the horsepower and amperage ratings on any import machine, neither rating is likely to be much more than a guess by the maker or a fabrication by advertising people.
John W.
Edited 1/8/2004 4:32:29 PM ET by JohnW
You make a good point regarding the "truth" about hp. on foreign made equipment. Having owned only one table saw, I'm not sure I understand your comment about amp rating. For example, my table saw is a 13 amp but my P.C. circular saw is a 15 amp. as is my miter saw. Are you saying that those two have more power than the table saw? In addition, I can't find an amp rating on the dewalt saw only a hp. designation. So, how do I compare before buying?
Thanks for your patience with a semi-new woodworker.
Mike,
In theory a motor with a higher amperage rating should produce more power but a lot of factors other than basic amp draw determine the actual usable power available for cutting. The point I was making about the Taiwanese saws is that their amp ratings are highly suspect and were probably never measured accurately in the first place so the numbers are useless for comparing machines.
The bigger point is that horsepower is not nearly as important as a number of other factors, the accuracy of a saw and the ability to stay accurate over time are far more important for instance.
I'm pretty sure that the DeWalt is rated at 15 amps and 1 3/4 horsepower.
John W.
Edited 1/8/2004 4:33:45 PM ET by JohnW
Mike,
Is this the saw you are referring to?
http://www.general.ca/product/inter/50200an.html
I was curious about this model as well, but I haven't been able to find out much about them. My understanding is that they are the GI builder's saw (185/175) stuck onto a cabinet base...not sure. I know that GI also makes a 3HP http://www.general.ca/product/inter/50250an.html that sells for about $1799 CDN. Not as expensive as the General CDN-made 350/650 and probably a nice saw nonethelesss.
I am currently looking at upgrading my older Rockwell and have my eyes set on the builder's saw...top saw in the last FWW Tools and Shops issue.
Mike, is it a General, or General International? The latter are made in Asia. I party whom I know as a very accomplished, highly skilled, professional swears by General stuff. I can think of no higher recommmendation than his. I've not used it, I know nothing of it, but I'd be favorably inclined. It will be interesting to hear what other comments come along.
You know, of late, I've not heard anyone from Texas "complain" about living in Texas, LOL.
In general, it's not good practice to assume a motor rated "1 1/2" or "2" horsepower actually has that horsepower. A more accurate determination is based on the amperage, stated on the motor itself.
Good luck and welcome aboard.
Buy the CDN general,I just bought one.The extra 1 horse will matter if you plan on cutting some thick hard wood down the road. Also the sevice you get from General seems to be better than G INT. And from a re sale point,Canadian and Usa stuff seems to hold their value better. Good luck.
Hi Mike - Welcome to the forum. Last winter I bought a General Intl 50-185 contractor saw. I won't make any claims for this saw outside of it's "contractor saw" classification, but I was very, very impressed with a number of things right from the start. A year's worth of cutting has only increased my opinion of it. The fit and finish were excellent, the fence is superb (it's the General T-fence), the miter gauge was better than anything I'd seen on another contractor saw by a long shot, the bearings and pulleys are high-precision, it came with a number of convenient accessories, the motor has plenty of power, and the price was terrific ($650). On the negative side, the manual was pretty sparse, but they have been working on improving them. All in all GI makes an obvious attempt to offer alot of machine for the money. They responded to an e-mail within an hour, and were familiar with my whole purchase transaction from a dealer in Canada! This model was ranked #1 over the hybrids, Delta, Jet, PM, Griz, BW, and Woodtek by the fine magazine (pun intended) that sponsors this forum. The Canadian-made General 650 cabinet saw was ranked #1 over the PM, Delta, Grizzly, Shop Fox, and Craftsman last October by Wood Mag. The General machinery is first rate and is made in Canada using castings from their own foundery. The GI stuff is made mainly in Taiwan, but that may vary by machine, but I really like that they differentiate so we don't have to guess if it's foreign-made or not. It's just a great company to deal with, and you'll rarely go wrong with anything with either name on it.
I looked at the 50-200 when I picked up my saw. It's got the same fence as other General and GI saws, and it appeared to be well finished. Can't tell you much about the trunnion design, but the enclosed cabinet should offer superior dust collection to a contractor saw, and I suspect 2hp will make most cuts with ease given the right choice in blades.
Good luck and please report back when you decide what to do or if you have more questions.
After all the discussions I have decided to buy a good 3hp cabinet saw. Now it is just a matter of which one. the saw will not be used daily but when used I want it to be accurate. The grizzly reviews I have read are mixed, mainly fence problems. I beileve I have narrowed my choices to the general, jet, delta, and possibly the bridgewood. It should be a machine that will last the rest of my life so the extra money appears to be worth it.
Mike, which Grizzly saw did you read fence problems about? (wow, ain't my grammar wonderful?). IIRC, there are two difference fences on the 1023 series, the Shop Fox Classic and the Shop Fox. My impression is that the Classic is a fine fence, the SF not so. Strangely, the lesser of the two, the regular Shop Fox, comes on the Z-version.forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
The reviews I can recall both came from Fine Woodworking, the latest being the 2004 tool guide. In addition, have read several consumer reviews from amazon etc. and the negative comments have been about the fence but I don't know that it specified which one. However, I think I remember seeing a review on the shop fox table saw that had some comments about the fence that were not flattering. I am trusting my memory which is suspect at best. I like the price of the Griz. but I just don't know enough to be comfortable. I checked with my closest delta dealer( 100 miles away) today and got a price of $1699.00. Did not inquire about the extras as I will be driving there in the next 3 weeks to look at it in person but the Griz. would be a big savings. They also carry jet, and he had a strong reccomendation for the delta over the jet. Everyone has an opinion, that is why I am trying to get responses from actual users prior to my decision. Any imput would be welcome!
Will the griz be a big improvment over what I am currently using? Especially in the fence department?Another stupid question if I might, How do you build a crosscut sled on a saw that has t-slots for the miter guage such as the grizzly?
Edited 1/9/2004 6:07:14 PM ET by mike
Edited 1/9/2004 6:25:44 PM ET by mike
Mike,
I bought the Griz 1023 about 14 months ago. The 1023 comes with the Shop Fox Classic which is a knockoff of the Bies and works very well.
I looked at saws for quite a while before deciding. I finally decided that I wanted a 3 hp cabinet saw not so much because I needed it but because I did not want to make an expenditure on something smaller and always wonder if I should have bought a big boy toy. (I'll admit it, I have an ego)
To fit my budget, the decision came down to a used Unisaw, Powermatic or General or a new Griz 1023. I then decided that I'd only buy a used saw from a local dealer incase I had problems. I shopped for a while but none were available so I bought the Griz.
It is much more than I ever thought it would be...extremely pleased. I'm sure I would feel the way if I had bought any of the other cabinet saws too.
Thanks, is the shopfox CLASSIC the fence to buy when looking at the grizzly saw?
Mike,
Absolutely, the Shop Fox classic is the better fence...and cheaper. It's solid and heavy...
The 'T' slotted miter is an advantage ..never a hinderance. Some add-ons and aftermarket jigs require a T slot....most do not. Either way the miter accepts with or without...
Edited 1/10/2004 5:38:01 AM ET by BG
Thanks to BG for steppin' in here -- I never got the computer turned on last night. Yes it's the Classic you want. One of my gripes about the FWW Tool guide was their choice of models featured. They completely scroooowed Grizzly by featuring an ancient 14" bandsaw model and the worst 1023 package offered.
The T-slot miter gauge slots won't cause you any problems. The width above the "T" part is standard. My old Jet contractor saw has the same design.forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Once again, thanks. I ordered the Grizzly catalog and will consider them as well prior to making my decision. It appears that there are 2-3 saws in the $900-1300 price range that offer good quality at a decent price, and not using it everyday I'm not sure I can justify spending the extra$. What about the grizzly mobile base? Any good? I have a small 18'x24' shop so the saw needs to be mobile I have seen a HTC base on the jet and it moved effortlessly.
Mike,
FG is gonna kill me for jumping in again...but she is on her honeymoon...
I have the Shop Fox mobile base under my griz 1023 and just recently bought a Delta 14" bandsaw with the Delta mobile base.....so i have experience with both. The Delta lists for $100 and can be assembled in about 3 minutes with very few moving parts. You step on the lever and it rises up and glides to wherever...its a three wheeler, welded construction. (bought on sale at WWW for $70)
The shop fox needs assembley with nuts and bolts ...maybe 20 mins. It's a fourwheeler with stops you push down to make it immovable. My shop is smaller than yours so I needed the mobility...but in reality, I don't move it too much..except to clean. The base is solid and has a feature that has come in very handy. I attached supports from the base to the back of my TS to support my drop down outfeed table. Using the steel bracket on the back of the TS that supports the fence, I built out about a 12" outfeed platform onto to which the drop down table is attached....wood support brackets go from the platform to the shop fox mobile base.
Anyhow, the SF base works fine and cost about $59.
[An aside to BG, not to worry silly. You can jump in any time!]
I had a Shop Fox base for a couple days, but took it back -- holes were mis-drilled, and they had the Incra 1000 miter gauge on sale, so I traded the base in for that! The base was, IMO, a PITA to put together. One of the current mags has a review on various bases. I'll take a look tonight and see if there's anything useful (above and beyond BG's valuable 1st-hand experience!).forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
On behalf of the beginning woodworkers, I would like to say thanks to those who have more experience in both the skill and machinery departments that assist us novices with these rudimentary questions. There is no way in a small town to get the type of feedback from knowledgeable users that has been gained from this forum.
You are most welcome, Mike! If it weren't for Knots, I'd be out in the cold too. Ain't we grand?!?forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Mike - I began my search for a new TS by asking the members of this forum for feedback, just like you are. After lots of great advice, I bought the Grizzly 1023SL with the Shop Fox T-style fence. Been using it for about a month and I love the saw and the fence. Easy to set up, great power and fence stays dead-on.
Believe it or not, my two finalists were the PM66 and the Griz. Got "permission" from the wife to buy the 66. Then it hit me, I can buy the Grizzly 1023 and a drum sander for the same price as the PM66!....the decision was made.
Now, if anything goes wrong with the Grizzly, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. All I know is, it cuts wood straight and right now, that's what I want.
Good luck in your decision.
Thanks for the insight. I have the same thought except I need a jointer to compliment the new saw. I am interested in more feedback from those that own a grizzly or the other saws listed for that matter as my purchase date is still probably 2 months away. Just curious, was the saw damaged at all during shipping as that seems to be a common theme in some of the reviews that I have read. Secondly, I am trying to figure a way to get the thing into my shop upon arrival. My shop is built in the back yard with a garage door to the alley but, due to the slope of the ground, the shop floor sits 3-4 ft. above the alley and there is a steep short grade between the two. I can bring it in through the front door which is 36" wide but that would mean "wheeling" it 20-30 yards depending on the flexibility of the truck making the delivery. Saw only, no rails etc. what is the weight? could one strap the saw to a furniture dolly(those used for refrigerators) and move it safely that way? Lastly, did you get a mobile base? which one? how is it?
Thanks
Edited 1/12/2004 8:27:55 PM ET by mike
Mike,
With regard to moving the saw into your shop, you've got a few options. Yes, a furniture dolly will work fine....the saw in the box weighs about 400 lbs. I took mine out of the box.....and lifted the cast iron extension wings off the top of the saw (about 35 lbs each)....I could have taken the top off the saw (about 100 lbs) and just handled the carcass, motor and trunnons as a unit (maybe 150 lbs). The rails and fence are packed separately...
Edited 1/12/2004 7:25:09 PM ET by BG
Mike,
Moved my Unisaw into the basement of my new house this summer when we moved. I took off the hand wheels, motor cover, blade, and fence/table extensions. Placed it on a dolly. The trick was to move the saw upside down because it is top heavy. Took two guys to navigate the stairs down into the basement, but rolling it around on the dolly was a snap.
--Rob
It's funny you ask about shipping damage. The FIRST saw I received arrived tipped over in the delivery truck. When the driver opened the door, the saw was leaning on the side wall. Don't know if it was damaged but I refused delivery. The new saw arrived one week later...perfect.
Regarding transport into your shop, the moving dolly should be fine for most of the move. The cabinet and center table top come as one unit on a wooden pallet. The wings and rails need to be installed. All told, the cabinet and top probably weigh 300+ pounds so get help.
Regarding the mobile base, I looked at all the popular models of bases on the market and was not happy with any of them. 3 reasons for this:
1. Most do not offer 4 swivel casters, which is important to me in a narrow shop. 4 swivels allow me to turn the machine in a circle vs. having to 3-point turn it around the shop.
2. I wanted a foot brake. Only one model offered the foot brake, Delta, and I didn't like the "feel" of the one I tried in the store.
3. Most of the models available use a hard, almost plastic, wheel which, on a concrete floor, tends to get stopped up by screws, nails, wood chips, etc.
So in the end I built my own base which I am very pleased with. I will email a photo of it later this week. It took to build and cost $90. I built it wide enough to hold the saw and a 1hp dust collector so I don;t have to deal with running duct work from my main dc to the saw.
This may sound stupid, but, while looking on the grizzly website, I was looking at the height of the saw to see if I will have to modify my current outfeed table, when I noticed the height of the saw listed at 40 3/4". I was looking at the Grizz. with the 7' rails. Being only 5'6" on a good day, a saw that tall would not be comfortable for me. So, I looked at the same saw with the short rails and the height was listed at 34". What gives? I am assuming the 40" height might include the blade guard etc. I guess I will call Grizz. prior to deciding and get the straight scoop. If anyone has the 1023- slx let me know the height from ground to tabletop. Thanks.
Would also be intersted in seeing the homemade mobile base. Does your saw have the long rails?
Edited 1/13/2004 12:19:38 PM ET by mike
mike,
The height is more like 34" ...(35" in the shop fox mobil base)....your correct that the 40" number is to the top of the blade guard.
Since you're going to wait a couple of months you might want to wait a little longer and head for the Grizzly Tent Sale.
Last year I went to the Tent Sale in June and picked up a G5959 (12" 5HP) and an 8" Jointer. I've been very happy with both. The saw I got new because the models they had left were more than I wanted to repair but the Jointer was on a good sale. They were very good about helping find the missing parts for the jointer and I ordered them that day. It took just a couple of hours to set up. So, for $450 +$50 in parts I've got an 8" jointer that I love.
Is the tent sale in an actual tent or is it advertised somewhere? i.e. Do you have to visit a Grizzly location to take advantage of those deals? .Living in Texas, It would be difficult to travel to a showroom location.
It is actually a tent sale. Check their website at http://www.grizzly.com. They do have sales at various times the tent sales are for returned, broken or other surplus machines that you can get various good deals on. There is a site in Springfield, Mo that might be reasonable to get to from Texas. That sale is on July 17, this year. Maybe you can make it a vacation trip with a special gift for you to bring home.
If you're okay with repairing machines you can get a really good deal.
The other unfortunate thing is that there is no other place to actually get your hands on a grizzly unless you find another owner around you, but for the money it''s hard to beat.
If you plan on spending $900-$1200 you should find a used Unisaw. Go over to http://www.woodweb.com and post a WTB ad. For that amount of cash, a machinery dealer would set you up. If I had one to sell I'd gladly take $1000 and ship it to you.
Mike, I'm gonna play devil's advocate and suggest that going to the Grizzly Tent Sale is a thrill for some individuals, but not all. I live "only" 3 hours from the Bellingham showroom, but I wouldn't wait an extra 3 or 4 months in hopes that I'd find (and actually get) the right machine at the sale. People start lining up obscenely early, so I'm told, for those sales. If you had a list of 4 or 5 machines you were looking for, that's one thing -- odds might be decent. But if you're focused on one particular tool you need, there's huge competition. You're looking at traveling to southern Missouri, renting a hotel room, at least 2 days lost time. That's alot for saving a few bucks on a machine that's not up to snuff.forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
just ran across the Delta 36-732. 3 hp. cabinet saw, right tilt. Price $1299(Amazon) with bies. fence 50". The specs say 45" height with blade guard. That would make the table height in the 39-40" range I'm guessing. Does that sound to tall to you? The other delta models list the height of about 34". The specs also do not specify that it is a 3 belt saw. Is it possible that there is some other configuration for a 3hp. cabinet saw? Anyone know anything about this saw? The one review on amazon was glowing. It seems the more I research, the harder the decision becomes.
Thanks for putting up with me!
Mike,
The 36-730 Delta saws are not the same as the Unisaws. I'm not sure on all the differences, but I believe the 36-730 does have 3 belts. I seem to recall that the location of manufacturing is not in the USA but not sure. Perhaps someone else can shed some light on this one. My Unisaw total height with the stock blade guard was not 45". I don't have the stock blade guard on it anymore but I believe it only added about 4"-6" to the 34" table height.
Seems a bit confusing to me. If your looking for a Unisaw, make sure it says "Unisaw" on it and not just cabinet saw.
--Rob
"The 36-730 Delta saws are not the same as the Unisaws. I'm not sure on all the differences, but I believe the 36-730 does have 3 belts. I seem to recall that the location of manufacturing is not in the USA but not sure. Perhaps someone else can shed some light on this one."
According to a couple of Delta employees who hang around another forum, those saws are meant to compete with Grizzly and the other Asian brands. They are made in China or Taiwan, but are not Unisaw knockoffs (I had asked about that, and they said that the carriage and trunnion assemblies are different, among many other things). I'd be curious to see one up close.
Be seeing you...
Edited 1/15/2004 10:19:15 AM ET by Tom Kanzler
Thanks for the insight, Tom!
--Rob
Ok, Thanks. Now that we are comparing foreign made saws to each other(apples to apples), how is a fellow to choose? The Grizz. offers a little more for the money, while the delta has the bies. fence and then, nothing bad has been said about the general or bridgewood. Keeping in mind that this machine will only be used on the weekends for mainly personal work with a custom piece made for sale occassionally, Will all the machines perform equally well? and last a long time? As we all know, I need it to make accurate cuts on a consistant basis, mainly building cabinets, built ins and entertainment centers(armiors). I could splurge for the more upscale saws but the $500-700 saved will go a long way to completing my tool collection.
The more I look around, the more pitiful my craftsman becomes.
Edited 1/15/2004 5:43:12 PM ET by mike
Mike,
I strongly suspect that all of these saws will greatly exceed your expectations. Yes, there is a chance you could get a klunker....every manufacturer has put out a few each year. The key thing is that they respond and fix the problem...and all the manufacturers are pretty good at responding to issues.
The Delta 732 that was mentioned previously is very tempting. Amazon says its a 4 hp...with the bies. However, I also know 3 hp is way more than adequate...and several hundred dollars difference is significant. I can't believe that I could detect the difference in performance between a 3 and 4 hp machine...not for what I do...
Recently I bought a 14" Bandsaw on sale for $409. If you told me I could have a 3 hp machine and a 14" Bandsaw for the price of 4 hp TS.....well, that is a simple decision.
Please understand Mike, from my point of view, we all want to influence your decision because we know your going to be so pleased ....and we all want to feel we played a part in making you happy...
I truly appreciate the responses, otherwise I would be flying blind.
I must say, the delta has me intruged. I recently bought the delta 14" open base band saw and after two initial calls to delta and two sets of replacement tires(seems the foreign made ones had some sizing problems, too big to stay on the wheels) I have been satisfied with my purchase and delta customer service was helpful. Additionally, any money I can save on the cabinet saw will go to accessories such as a mobile base, outfeed table, good dado set, you know, esssentials. I have a delta dealer 100 miles away which is pushing me that direction as well. However, for $200 less, the grizz has the extention table as well as the support legs but not a Bies fence.
Amazon has the hp. listed as 4, but the manufactuer's notes has it listed at 3 hp. which sounds more logical.
That brings me too another question, how important are the extention table and support legs for a saw with a 50" + rip capacity? Does it make any difference that a mobile base will be attached?
Edited 1/15/2004 11:14:41 PM ET by mike
Having recently added a couple Grizzly tools, I am biased by their relatively lower cost and outstanding performance, so if I were looking for a new saw, they would be high on my list. I have several Delta/Porter Cable tools, and they are good, but not the bargain I feel with Grizzly. But I don't want to get into the religous war between the two brands - both will get you to heaven, but the paths may be different.
As for the width required on the saw... I have a 36 inch rip capacity, but only use it occasionally making furniture. If I have a larger rip requirement, I use a home-made panel cutter/sled, and (horrors) make a line with a pencil to align the cut. Since I have limited room, I'm not sure that even the 36 inches was necessary as long as the table is large enough to hold a large piece steady. When I am within the 36 inches, and can align with the fence, if I am careful, I can get cuts to 1/128 inch - the advantage of using the fence rather than a pencil line.
I have never been stalled with my 1 1/2 hp contractor saw using a premium blade, primarily cutting hardwood. It may not be as fast as a 3 hp saw, but it works fine. And if you are looking at Grizzly, I hear that the Shop Fox Classic fence is like the Biesie________________________Charlie Plesums Austin, Texashttp://www.plesums.com/wood
Charlie,
Thanks for input, Where in Austin can I find various dealers of cabinet saws other than woodcraft? I would like to look at general and delta with a good selection so I can compare. I live In west Texas and will be coming that way in April on business.
I will also be heading to the DFW area in Feb. if you know any locations there.
I would answer Woodcraft for both Austin and Dallas - perhaps others on the forum can suggest better options.
I do most of my research on the Internet - much broader information than I get from a salesman who wishes he/she personally had something as good as they are demonstrating (if they can even figure out how to use it right), and wants to sell what they have in stock.
A suggestion I have made on other forums, and suggest here (if anyone is monitoring us) is to have a section in the forum where people could say "I would like to see brand xxx model yyy in somebody's shop near zzz city." I would welcome an occasional visitor to my shop to see a specific tool (and have done so), but I am not about to post a list of all my tools - a menu for a burglar.
My saw is a contractor version, as mentioned earlier, so I can't help. But if you travel regularly on business (as you seem to be suggesting), I would make a point of stopping at one of the three Grizzly showrooms - my opinion of their products went from negative to quite positive (for at least may of their tools) after my visit. Therefore the G1023 is my most likely "next" saw if I were to change.________________________Charlie Plesums Austin, Texashttp://www.plesums.com/wood
Thanks for the thoughts. My travels are limited to Texas for business and I have been in several woodcraft stores and have not been impressed by the knowledge of the salespeople. Unfortunately, I do not know of a showroom in Texas that has General. There were 2 dealers listed in San Antonio but looking at there site, they don't carry the saws in the stores. May have to call and get the real scoop.
It certainly helps to hear from a satisfied grizzly owner as there are some less than kind comments on those products lurking around.
A friend of mine has the Jet 3hp. And it's a nice saw but I don't know if it's worth the extra $ over a Grizzly or bridgewood. Once again, no local showroom to see either of those 2 brands.
I visited your site and looked at the pictures. You sure know how to make an amateur woodworker feel like a hack.
Mike there's a shop in Texas called Odie Whites that sells new stuff and reconditioned old saws. You can get execellent bang for your buck with a reconditioned uni or pm 66. Check out their web site on google.
General dealers:
TEXAS:
<http://www.general.ca/images/index.gif>
Jointech inc.
11725 Warfield
San Antonio, TX 78216
210-377-1288
210-377-1282
Woodworkers Service & Supply Co Inc
1410 Trinity St
San Antonio, TX 78207
210-735-3506
210-735-6533
Mike,
Correct, after the TS, you'll want the dado set, miter and tennon jig..along with some high quality measuring devices. You'll quickly see that high degrees of accuracy are acheivable...different blades produce different outcomes...and you'll want that for your work. In addition, you'll want to take those milled pieces and put a plane to them..shooting boards, smoothers...all on a great workbench. With your plane skills comes the realization that maybe the TS was not as necessary to quality outcomes as you once thought (the Woodworkers code says we never share those thoughts/realities with our spouces..just keep buying).
I don't have the space for a 50" extension, therefore I need a mobil base to positon the TS for larger stock...such as when cutting dados in a cabinet side. If I did have the space for the extension then maybe the mobil base is not necessary...unless I moved the saw for cleaning a lot. In a large shop, it would seem to me, you want as much outfeed table as reasonable...not only to support cutting but for staging and even to help with assembly. In my small shop I do this with drop down tables and roll ups....along with a large cross cut sled..this allows me to keep the workbench clear for the joinery phase and I use the outfeed table for sub-assembly glueups and finishing. Also, there is the option of getting longer rails and droping in a router table top...
You probably know this Mike, but just in case, when you see the cost of the add on stuff, etc. it really brings home the fact that whatever you buy in a TS is really one hell-of-a-deal. I'm not sure that buying a Grizzly over a Delta, Powermatic, General actually saves you money form a life cycle cost perspective....the key variable being re-sale value....and even if there is a difference, amortizing that difference over the useful like is practically nothing. The only real difference is the cash outflow now...and whats it going to take. My point being, don't skimp on your dream...you've waited...and your not going to do this twice...with that puppy in your shop you'll be inspired...get the full bang from that buck...
I get a kick out of people worried about re-sale. Are you going to be alive tomorrow? Maybe not so quite worring about resale & purchase the tool that will fit your budget & allow you to purchase another tool to be able to make the hobby enjoyable & do good wood working. Oh if your worried about family getting all the money out of the higher cost tools better leave them a list of tools & what their worth.Sucking.......Whoosh.......Yowl........Whoosh.........Thrump.
O-B
You hit on a very good point! A person with tons of tools should have an inventory with the cost when purchased and approximate resale value. I love to go to sales where some old guy has died an left all his stuff for the widow or family to dispose of. Then again I always feel bad about the fact that many items go for pennies on the dollar because the sellers are clueless about the value.
Enjoy!
Mack
Mike the Grizzly fence is a knock off of the Bies fence & works just as good. The left tilt G1023SLX has the 54" fence rails. If I was looking to purchase a cabinet saw I would purchase it without hesitation. I live 1 hr from Bellingham & have drooled over one many times. I have used the older G1023 right tilt with a Bies commercial fence before there was any prefix or suffix letters added to the saw model number & it doesn't work any better or worse. Just an outstanding saw at a reasonable price. Go get one & get the 8" jointer with hand wheels I wish I had at the same time. I have looked at Delta, General & PM they are all great tools but if the tool works as intended & Grizzly does why pay more. After a few years no one will know if the the project was milled with a high dollar PM or a Grizzly.
I forgot to mention I have a Grizzly band-saw, Dust collector , Planer & Combination sander & am very satisfies with all these tools.
Sucking.......Whoosh.......Yowl........Whoosh.........Thrump.
Edited 1/18/2004 12:10:22 PM ET by Original-Bart
The older Unisaws (have no clue when) didn't have "Unisaw" logo. I know my 1950 model does not. They are every bit as good, perhaps better, than the newer units.
Mack
Good point, Mack. I wasn't even thinking of the vintage "used" Uni's, just the ones you buy new. I'll keep that in mind next time!
Thanks,
--Rob
Mike: If that is correct, that is a terrific price... could this be a pre-X5 Unisaw? No matter as there is no difference that I can detect.
By the way, I bought a new X-5 left lilt Unisaw this fall. Got it for $1649 from Superior Distributing in Indianapolis, IN. They also provided a mobile base and so I got to use the X-5 coupon for a new P-C 690 router! Traded that router in on a new Bosch 1617 EVS with two bases.
I feel very fortunate to be using these tools. Now I must practice my hand tool skills so they catch up.
No, it seems to be a step below the X5 or unisaw, at least that is the order it is listed on the delta web site. If I thought it was a uni. even last years model and new, I would jump on that. If you lookand have a different opinion being a delta owner, let me know as I have no frame of refernce other than pictures. Only comes in a right tilt though.
Ah FG - you missed the big cost of going to Grizzly. Driving Iowa to Texas, I stopped in MO and spent the night at the hotel you mentioned. Wanted to see the dust collector before I bought my first Grizzly tool. After three hours in the Grizzly showroom the next morning, I not only had the dust collector, but a ton of other smaller tools, and the confidence to later trade my Jet bandsaw for the Grizzly. The cost of the hotel room and side trip were lost among the other monies spent.
Incidentally, in Springfield Grizzly has a separate section of the showroom where they accumulate the tools that will be sold on the tent sale, and offer them year around. My visit was shortly after last year's sale, so it was pretty sparse, but I could have bought my dust collector at a bargain price...with a dent in the fan housing (no way).
Back to the main topic...a significant advantage of a cabinet saw in a small shop (over a contractor saw) is the location of the motor. I love my Ridgid 3612 - good fence, accurate cuts, enough power, but the #$%^ motor sticking out the back makes it the hardest tool to store when the cars get their turn in the shop/garage. ________________________Charlie Plesums Austin, Texashttp://www.plesums.com/wood
Charlie, Charlie....too funny!forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Mike - Sounds like a great plan that I doubt you'll ever regret. General Intl has two 3HP cab saws (250/260....RT/LT) for around $1200 that might be worth a look. I've heard they're made in the same plant in Taiwan that makes the Jet, but that's not a substantiated story yet.
Have never heard a negative comment about the value of the BW either...except for s/h if you live far from York, PA.
Good luck and enjoy the search!
Mike save the extra bones and buy the 350/650. General made in Canada products are excellent .Not very creative engineering wise ,but solid and reliable. Motors are usually Leeson or Baldor although my lathes have Brooke-Crompton 3ph..We run 3 of the 350's and apart from belts,arbour bearings on 2(neither were really necessary) and 1 set of motor centrifical switch contacts in 18 years.We rip 8/4 maple ,oak 6 inch billets of poplar in 2 passes day in and day out and once in a while remove digits!The saws just keep on going.Seriously though, buy a good saw and forget about it.Buy North American preferably General CDN.Note that I have no affilliation with them apart from satisfaction with their product
Mike
You know If you are spending $1200.00 whats another $500.00 and get something you know you will like
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Delta 36-L31X-BC50 X5 3HP Left Tilt Unisaw with Biesemeyer
Features:
Cant go wrong with a Delta Table Saw
Ron
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